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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:35:45 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.


I get the idea that they consider what I'd consider to be at least negligent homicide to be a "clean shooting".




Hendrix did everything the law required.
Called 911
Warned the guy three times.
In a similar situation I went for my gun after two warnings.
My God do you need to be shot before you can fight back?

How about turn on a light so you can see what is going on?

So that I am illuminated better than they are?

?
If the light is in your hand or behind you, you will not be better illuminated. They will be blinded or dazzled since their eyes are adjusted for the dark. I thought you were supposed to have tactical training. Do you think those flashlights cops carry are only for beating perps?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:36:27 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
He was shot because after three warnings he continued to advance with something that has been used
as a murder weapon recently.

Do you live in terror of being shot by the flashlights of old men?


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:40:33 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.


I get the idea that they consider what I'd consider to be at least negligent homicide to be a "clean shooting".




Hendrix did everything the law required.
Called 911
Warned the guy three times.
In a similar situation I went for my gun after two warnings.
My God do you need to be shot before you can fight back?

How about turn on a light so you can see what is going on?

So that I am illuminated better than they are?

?
If the light is in your hand or behind you, you will not be better illuminated. They will be blinded or dazzled since their eyes are adjusted for the dark. I thought you were supposed to have tactical training. Do you think those flashlights cops carry are only for beating perps?

In case you hadn't noticed, and apparently you had not, those flashlights do not illuminate the cops.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:40:35 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
How about turn on a light so you can see what is going on?

So that I am illuminated better than they are?


Yep the dark's way better, that's why cops hang out in the dark instead of shining a light in your eyes when they confront you


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:41:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
He was shot because after three warnings he continued to advance with something that has been used
as a murder weapon recently.

Do you live in terror of being shot by the flashlights of old men?



I don't live in terror of anyone.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:42:59 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.


I get the idea that they consider what I'd consider to be at least negligent homicide to be a "clean shooting".




Hendrix did everything the law required.
Called 911
Warned the guy three times.
In a similar situation I went for my gun after two warnings.
My God do you need to be shot before you can fight back?

How about turn on a light so you can see what is going on?

So that I am illuminated better than they are?

?
If the light is in your hand or behind you, you will not be better illuminated. They will be blinded or dazzled since their eyes are adjusted for the dark. I thought you were supposed to have tactical training. Do you think those flashlights cops carry are only for beating perps?

In case you hadn't noticed, and apparently you had not, those flashlights do not illuminate the cops.

And there was apparently something keeping this guy from carrying a flashlight? And a porch light behind him would have back lit him which would have been very safe as well. Or do you think motion sensor lights around homes make it more dangerous?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:44:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
How about turn on a light so you can see what is going on?

So that I am illuminated better than they are?


Yep the dark's way better, that's why cops hang out in the dark instead of shining a light in your eyes when they confront you



Do you actually think you are going to get away with that absurdity?
The cops don't stand in the middle of a well lit area with the bad guys out around the edges of the light.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:49:04 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you actually think you are going to get away with that absurdity?
The cops don't stand in the middle of a well lit area with the bad guys out around the edges of the light.


And why the fuck would he? That's certainly not what I did.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:49:38 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
do you think motion sensor lights around homes make it more dangerous?



They make me more likely to pull out the old wrist rocket slingshot, and find a couple little rocks. I hate those fucking things.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:49:56 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.


I get the idea that they consider what I'd consider to be at least negligent homicide to be a "clean shooting".




Hendrix did everything the law required.
Called 911
Warned the guy three times.
In a similar situation I went for my gun after two warnings.
My God do you need to be shot before you can fight back?

How about turn on a light so you can see what is going on?

So that I am illuminated better than they are?

?
If the light is in your hand or behind you, you will not be better illuminated. They will be blinded or dazzled since their eyes are adjusted for the dark. I thought you were supposed to have tactical training. Do you think those flashlights cops carry are only for beating perps?

In case you hadn't noticed, and apparently you had not, those flashlights do not illuminate the cops.

And there was apparently something keeping this guy from carrying a flashlight? And a porch light behind him would have back lit him which would have been very safe as well. Or do you think motion sensor lights around homes make it more dangerous?

You are being silly again.
Being spotlighted does not make you safer.
I have a motion sensor, it is a Doberman.
I have better night vision than most people so I am at an advantage without the light.
And he ignored three warnings to stop
What does it take to get the significance of that through to you.
It's not like he thought there was something out there opened the door and cut loose.
He warned the man to stop advancing on him three times, three times can't you understand that?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 9:51:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you actually think you are going to get away with that absurdity?
The cops don't stand in the middle of a well lit area with the bad guys out around the edges of the light.


And why the fuck would he? That's certainly not what I did.


Light switch is by the door you turn it on, the you walk into the light.
If the are harmless you move out of the light.
If not you don't live that long.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/3/2014 10:01:45 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		It's no one's fault that the old fellow had Alzheimer's.

The guy that did the shooting (ostensibly) had no way of knowing that the old fellow had the disease.

Unfortunately, it is a sign of the times that people are afraid in their own homes because we've developed a Counter-American culture in this country. The inmates are running the asylum.

Law-abiding citizens that just want to go to work, pay their bills and enjoy their family have somehow been painted as the bad guys and the real bad guys now see them as a "legal target". It's open season on "fat old white men that pay their taxes".

What's sad is that this happened and took the life of one person and has ruined the life of another.

As someone who suffers from PTSD and a degenerative disease that both affect my memory, I could find myself in this old man's place. Alzheimer's also runs in my family so I may have that to look forward to.

Not everyone in my neighborhood knows about my conditions but I can assure you that the ones that I know have guns, do.

To expect this homeowner to be familiar with this old guy's condition is a little preposterous (but we're in a venue where a bunch of the lunatic fringe considers themselves to be mind readers so it's projection to the Nth degree).

It's a tragedy but as long as the cops established that the homeowner didn't know about the old guy's condition, that's all it is; a tragedy.





_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 5:05:47 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Light switch is by the door you turn it on, the you walk into the light.
If the are harmless you move out of the light.
If not you don't live that long.


It's really fucked up that you can't come up to any solution to this easily solvable problem besides killing unarmed old men.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 5:31:43 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Unfortunately, it is a sign of the times that people are afraid in their own homes because we've developed a Counter-American culture in this country. The inmates are running the asylum.

Law-abiding citizens that just want to go to work, pay their bills and enjoy their family have somehow been painted as the bad guys and the real bad guys now see them as a "legal target". It's open season on "fat old white men that pay their taxes".

So that's how America looks through the fear goggles...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
To expect this homeowner to be familiar with this old guy's condition is a little preposterous (but we're in a venue where a bunch of the lunatic fringe considers themselves to be mind readers so it's projection to the Nth degree).

It's a tragedy but as long as the cops established that the homeowner didn't know about the old guy's condition, that's all it is; a tragedy.

No I'm not expecting Mr. Hendrix to be a mind reader or know that Mr. Westbrook had Alzheimer's. But I would expect him to become informed enough about a situation to determine whether he was in danger BEFORE killing another human being.

Instead of shooting when he had no idea what the fuck was going on and then saying oops guess I was paranoid that time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
It's open season on "fat old white men that pay their taxes".

Apparently, Ret. Lt. Col. Ronald Westbrook's killer certainly got away scot-free.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 6:08:20 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		FR

So it's the anti-gunners, perhaps better said as anti self defense, v pro-gunners, pro self defense. Easy targets v not so easy. What's interesting is that the anti's use hindsight as justification for their posturing rhetoric whereas the pro's use viewing it 'at the moment'. Those are wholly different lenses. Reality based, one is appropriate and the other is not.

The man was suffering from Alzheimer. He was warned 3 times. He kept approaching. Now how anyone could 'know' his handicap is anyone guess. Perhaps the pro-gunner's crystal ball wasn't working. Yes, that's snark. The result was unfortunate, a happenstance of 'the moment.' Now, juxtapose that against a happening quite some time ago, when a man was confronted by police. He had what the officer(s) thought was a weapon. It wasn't. It was a foil wrapped sub sandwich. No matter, he paid with his life. The cop wasn't a pro-gunner, he was a cop. One of those whom the anti's believe "should" be armed; the one trusted. Heaven forbid anyone else.

Anti-gun self defense adherents make me sick. Not because they oppose firearm self-defense use, but because they cannot make a cogent argument against such. It's all feeling and hindsight. Cheese-heads demanding everyone drink of their whine.

But I would expect him to become informed enough about a situation to determine whether he was in danger BEFORE killing another human being.

Tell that to the cop who killed the sandwich carrier. IIRC, he was told to drop it. He didn't. The Alzheimer man was warned too. He kept approaching.

Feelgood leftist anti-gun self defense proponents are some of the most irrational people. Wearing fear goggles, indeed.



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 6:31:04 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
You are being silly again.
Being spotlighted does not make you safer.
I have a motion sensor, it is a Doberman.
I have better night vision than most people so I am at an advantage without the light.
And he ignored three warnings to stop
What does it take to get the significance of that through to you.
It's not like he thought there was something out there opened the door and cut loose.
He warned the man to stop advancing on him three times, three times can't you understand that?

I live in the real world. Any number of reasons could exist why a person might not respond to a verbal warning besides being a physical threat.  Shooting him was not necessary. Simply turning on a light would have ended the entire situation. Besides being demented the person could have been deaf, or in some sort of distress and been unable to respond.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 6:46:30 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Apparently, Ret. Lt. Col. Ronald Westbrook's killer certainly got away scot-free.

Westbrook died with his boots on. I suspect that he would have been pleased.

Warriors by nature are suspicious of other people. It is their nature to attack and fight and therefore they expect to be attacked and they will strike first and kill when they are triggered.

It does not help that nearly all populations are unstable. Unemployment and substance addictions cause instability. The increasing secularisation removes the religious guidance of their lives, which is another important cause of social instability.


_____________________________

"I tend to pay attention when Rule speaks" - Aswad

"You are sweet, kind, and ever so smart, Rule. You ALWAYS stretch my mind and make me think further than I might have on my own" - Duskypearls

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 7:00:11 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		A dark figure is stomping out of the dark with what appears to be a club in his hand. The dark figure does not respond to calls to stop and identify themselves.

What do you do?

A> Wet yourself and cower crying "don't hurt me".
B> Turn your back to the club wielding dark figure to go turn on a light and perhaps call 911.
C> Use force to stop the unresponsive dark figure from stalking at you.
D> Abandon any thought for protecting your family or your property and run like hell.

Your choice!

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 7:32:48 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

A dark figure is stomping out of the dark with what appears to be a club in his hand. The dark figure does not respond to calls to stop and identify themselves.

What do you do?

A> Wet yourself and cower crying "don't hurt me".
B> Turn your back to the club wielding dark figure to go turn on a light and perhaps call 911.
C> Use force to stop the unresponsive dark figure from stalking at you.
D> Abandon any thought for protecting your family or your property and run like hell.

Your choice!



Add

Know it's a alzheimer inflicted man, opening your arms as to give him a warm hug, then offer him milk and cookies.

< Message edited by Yachtie -- 3/4/2014 7:33:22 AM >

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/4/2014 7:55:04 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

A dark figure is stomping out of the dark with what appears to be a club in his hand. The dark figure does not respond to calls to stop and identify themselves.

What do you do?

A> Wet yourself and cower crying "don't hurt me".
B> Turn your back to the club wielding dark figure to go turn on a light and perhaps call 911.
C> Use force to stop the unresponsive dark figure from stalking at you.
D> Abandon any thought for protecting your family or your property and run like hell.

Your choice!



Add

Know it's a alzheimer inflicted man, opening your arms as to give him a warm hug, then offer him milk and cookies.

Actual scenario:
You are inside your home and have called the police already. Turn on the frigging porch light. See it is an old man, get a blanket and bring the man inside and wait for help to arrive.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 140
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