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Primal BDSM - 3/5/2014 12:22:50 AM   
ChasingMyTale


Posts: 31
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline 		So I recently found myself being told that primal was probably my sexuality. I was describing how I could Dom if needed, and how I technically sub (Thought Im a smart ass) when needed to. I described how to me it was all about the fight and the struggle and how thats what made sex fun and actually makes relationships more fun to me.

My friend knows me pretty well I guess and she said I was probably primal, and thats cool and all but I mean I would like to learn more about Primal. I have myself tagged as it on FetLife cuz it "feels" right but I cant find a whole heck of a bunch telling me what it is objectively. Is everything I described like the objective parts of what primal is or is there more? Less? I dont know.
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/5/2014 12:26:06 AM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		If that's your word for it, then I'm exactly this.

Personally, I call myself a switch fighter, but it is a very "primal" nature, yes. I enjoy both sides - being in control, and out of control. I love being out of control, fighting restraints, and controlling someone, seeing them fighting restraints. Power struggling. Tension, anger, aggression, smart ass joking, struggles, endurance, they're all hallmarks of my type that I'd use to describe myself.

And for the record, lots and lots of fighting. My first dates with my guy ended up fighting in the back seats of cars, wrestling. We didn't get involved in kink till years later, but this was a sign that we worked together. We both just loved to fight.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/5/2014 12:35:52 AM >

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/5/2014 12:34:47 AM   
ChasingMyTale


Posts: 31
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline 		Hehe, sounds similar, from what I gather from my friend she says its more of spiritual thing, and that I reflect many of the traits she has learn to expect from a primal. In BDSM I like the power struggle, constantly like a 2 dom relationship where we fight back and forth to be in control. But in life I am kind, affectionate, playful, will still bite.

(in reply to pg4g)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/5/2014 12:38:39 AM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Yes, it is very much a 2 dom relationship where both reluctantly switch and enjoy hating the subbing. Believe me, the relationships exist: I'm in one.

< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/5/2014 1:03:14 AM >

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to ChasingMyTale)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/5/2014 4:34:07 AM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		[Post Deleted]

< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/5/2014 4:40:16 AM >

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to pg4g)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/5/2014 2:19:04 PM   
Miyani


Posts: 248
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline 		I consider myself Primal and don't switch at all. For me, it's about animalistic dominance, a predator/prey relationship. I prefer teeth and nails to floggers, and discount bullwhips entirely - I want to be right up on him, smell the fear and lust, taste his sweat. There are a lot of takedowns - but never a power struggle. That's not how I roll, I'll just walk away from it.

So I think there are probably Primal doms, subs, switches, just like there are doms, subs, switches into any other kind of BDSM. And it's a super freakin' fun way to be!

(in reply to pg4g)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/5/2014 4:42:19 PM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Of course. I didn't mean to suggest that switching is what "primal" was. Just a similarity between myself and the OP.

After looking into it, it seems to refer to people who focus on struggle play, instinctive actions, fighting, overpowering, in all it's forms. People who are in touch with hunter/prey mentality in their dominance and submission. And that hits my buttons just right.

I just happen to love being the hunter and the prey.

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to Miyani)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 12:48:19 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miyani

I consider myself Primal and don't switch at all. For me, it's about animalistic dominance, a predator/prey relationship. I prefer teeth and nails to floggers, and discount bullwhips entirely - I want to be right up on him, smell the fear and lust, taste his sweat. There are a lot of takedowns - but never a power struggle. That's not how I roll, I'll just walk away from it.

So I think there are probably Primal doms, subs, switches, just like there are doms, subs, switches into any other kind of BDSM. And it's a super freakin' fun way to be!

When you put it this way, I can sort of relate, if I'm in the mood. I couldn't operate in this mode full time. I'd either have to get mentally psyched or let it come out spontaneously in the course of bedroom antics. (But it doesn't have to be then, it could be while out in public when we can't really consummate our lust. Not fully.) Aside from being passionate, demonstrative, and lustful, I see primal as instinct-driven. If I had to always spend a lot of preparation time before engaging with my sub, made sure I'd (re-)showered, or felt self-conscious around my partner (like these gymrats who expect a woman to stay perfectly toned and coiffed), it would detract from the thrill factor.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to Miyani)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 6:41:15 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I wrote this over five years ago when the Primal was alittled word for many. Hope it helps.....

--===================

Primal play is very much a significant part of my play. I personally take great pleasure from the free flowing and uninhibited responses that such play generates from my play partners. The people I Top are encouraged to allow themselves to be free and uninhibited in their behaviors and reactions to the things that occur in the scene. It has been my experience that those I play with and those I have observed are under an expectation to maintain control of them selves and behave appropriately in all given situations. These expectations can over time lead to a buildup of stress and this requires a constructive outlet for release. One manner to release this stress that I provide my girls is the primal play. My girls have one rule in play..."They have no rules" I very specifically instruct my girls to avoid any thoughtful consideration of how they want or should behave. If they think it, They DO IT! It is my pleasure in play to enforce and control their behaviors. I will seek the means and methods to inhibit their behaviors and reactions that I choose. I will also encourage and incite the behaviors and reactions that I enjoy. I personally find an intense pleasure by dominating and enforcing control within a scene. In effect their behaviors and reactions often appear to be chaotic and radical, but yet I effect control upon them and harness the energy they produce and focus it in the manner I choose. For my girls there is a sense of empowerment and freedom within the play that we do. The play tends to provide a catalyst for achieving and maintaining the level of behaviors that I expect of them in their daily activities.

For some this play is rather shocking and disturbing to watch. A bottom fighting back for many could be a warning flag of concern to the consensual nature of the play at hand. For many Tops a bottom fighting back can give them the appearance that consent is being revoked and are unable to continue to play as result. It is indeed important that those participating in the play have clear understanding of the nature of primal play. It is important to understand how such play can or will be stopped. One should understand the risks associated with this kind of play. I personally have been dropped to the floor, kicked, punched, bit, scratched and even took a knee into the groin. A bottom that fight back will feel the force of the Top against their resistance. A Top will use equal force to the bottom’s resistance, plus one. This “plus one” is the appropriate force to bring submission and break the resistance. For the bottom, there is always the risk that this “plus One” will be more than they can tolerate and the extra force could be sufficient to cause more than immediate submission in the scene, but a lasting negative impact outside the scene. For the Top, you will always run the risk that the bottom’s resistance will be greater than the force you are will to exert to bring enforced submission. As a Top that play a lot in Primal play, I protect against these risk with one factor and one factor alone… Keep my girl free of harm. If I am unsure that my girl can take the “plus one” to bring enforced submission, I will end the play. If I am unsure of my ability to use “plus one” to enforce submission, I will end the play. The point of primal play is not to see who wins… but to have fun free of Harm!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ChasingMyTale)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 7:21:47 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Some more thoughts on primal.

============

As someone that engages in this type of play with all three of my girls. I find the differenence in what I consider positive primal and negative primal play is the intent of the fighting back by the bottom.

Positive to me is the bottom is fighting through the pain and sensations. Instead of doing internally by absorbing and containing the energy. Primal play causes the bottom to take the energy received from the flogger, cane whip etc and push it outwards. As the Top of these external bursts of energy of as I like to call them.. Energy transfer... I tend to get some of that explosion back at me. That is what happens when your in the blast radius.

But when it's negative. I fine the bottom is fighting Against the pain and directing and focusing on the Top as the causer of this pain. The energy is not accepted and processed through the bottom and the energy transferred back out in some way. Instead, the energy sits in between the Top and bottom and that is when I see a power struggle is occurring.

In my view, Energy transfer... Good, Power struggle. But they often can look very similar to each other at first glance.

As an example. Recently I was engage in abit of primal play with one of my girls. At one moment she took steps towards the wall and was going to make a vicious punch into the wall. In a quick moment I barked 'No' and she stopped in mid stride. She walked back to the cross and proceed to beat the hell out if the cross. In a power struggle she wouldn't of listen to my command. But because of the energy transfer that we were in engaged in she quickly complied to my wish of her not hitting the wall. Of course, I was relieved that she went to the cross to beat and release the energy instead of towards me. Lol

In reference to my post above. When I bring about enforced submission it is not specifically my will over her will. It is actually them submitting to the flow of energy through their body with little or no resistance. In many ways this appears to be a point of sub space as some would like to call it. But I see sub space more as a physiological response than a mental one. In primal play my girls don't get into a physiological sub space until I am done with the primal play that I am doing. I keep the intensity of pain inflicted upon them way to high to allow them the comfort of enjoying that place. It's not until we are done that they get to enjoy that feeling. Generally, the play ends when the fight in thier head ends. Embracing the energy and let it flow to its conclusion. The process can best described as the following.

Water starts running off the mountain and gathers down the crooks and cranies into a stream. As the water runs further down the mountain it gathers more water and evolves into a river getting larger and larger as it moves forward. The water from the time it comes off the mountain is busy and in a hurry. Tossing and churning with wild rapids as the water continues to move forward undetered from the obstacles in its way. Eventually the water wins out against the land as it becomes a calm peaceful force but still moving forward with incredible strength and power. Every now and again the land puts up a bit of hinderence that the water quickly knocks aside. In time the water finally arrives at its destination as the river flows into sea. With time the water evaporates into the air as the winds take this mositure filled air and drops it onto the mountain. The water then begins it streak to the sea once more.

I am the mountain that pushes the energy from me and gives it more momentum. The water is the energy that flows from me on to the land which is my bottom. The sea is the place a part of each of us end up together with the energy being the catalyst to that bonding. The water evaporating into the winds is our every day interactions together that create the thoughts and emotions between us. Theses thoughts and emotions transfer into energy is the water falling back onto the mountain.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 9:50:22 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I wrote this over five years ago when the Primal was alittled word for many. Hope it helps.....
<snip>
--===================
[Sorry for the snip!]
Thank you so much, KnightofMists, for explaining in detail, because I had only heard passing remarks about primal play from others. I can see that this isn't what would apply to me because there is too much of a playful nature woven throughout my past interactions. (Although it did occur to me to ask whether any of you accidentally break out in laughter or does your/their composure always remain steadfastly serious? If that's too personal a question, feel free to disregard it.)

Well, I can't delete what I've already posted. Is there such a thing as Fluffy* Playful Primal? Bad joke.

* Use of term "Fluffy" compliments of LP <curtsies>

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 10:55:32 AM   
ChasingMyTale


Posts: 31
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline 		@Knight of Mists: So, I actually started crying a little from the feeling of relief I got reading you post. You put into words something I have struggled for such a long time to, do you mind if I steal those 2 posts. I plan to put them on FetLife and CollarMe and keep them with me to help explain my sexuality to people. I mean, I'm a primal sub/bottom and I just for the life of me can't explain to people why someone who wants to be dominated wants to fight back so much... I lost a really fun partner to the overwhelming nature of my primal self.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:07:49 AM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Yeah, that's a pretty decent explanation of it, Knight of Mists

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to ChasingMyTale)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:12:31 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		'Primal' is not a sexuality. Sexuality is primal. there is a difference. everything we do outside of having sex to make babies is playing around, no matter what the hell you do.

waffle away about what it is that you do by all means, but at least use the terminology correctly.

needles

_____________________________

I deserved better. Not than you, but from you.

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:17:53 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

'Primal' is not a sexuality. Sexuality is primal. there is a difference. everything we do outside of having sex to make babies is playing around, no matter what the hell you do.

waffle away about what it is that you do by all means, but at least use the terminology correctly.

needles


You will find that the sex drive is primal, doesn't have much to do with making babies, otherwise why would we do it, when both parties are aware that contraceptive measures are in place and sexuality is considered a primal instinct, just like eating, sleep, etc. What kind of shape it takes, that's up to others, gays and lesbians have primal instincts as in the same as any straight person, and correct me if I'm wrong, they don't tend to do it to make babies (just like most hetero couples try harder to avoid babies than to make them)

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:20:29 AM   
ChasingMyTale


Posts: 31
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

'Primal' is not a sexuality. Sexuality is primal. there is a difference. everything we do outside of having sex to make babies is playing around, no matter what the hell you do.

waffle away about what it is that you do by all means, but at least use the terminology correctly.

needles



Please understand this is not stated with derision, but please instead of exclusively defining what primal "isn't" please help enlighten people by also defining what primal "is". Yes it can be defined otherwise the word loses meaning and that would be mean to say that the word has no meaning.

All words mean something and in so far as I have concluded primal refers to a play style and life style that holds to simple instinctual reactions and the predator/prey dynamic.

(in reply to needlesandpins)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:27:29 AM   
AlexisANew


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/10/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChasingMyTale

So I recently found myself being told that primal was probably my sexuality. I was describing how I could Dom if needed, and how I technically sub (Thought Im a smart ass) when needed to. I described how to me it was all about the fight and the struggle and how thats what made sex fun and actually makes relationships more fun to me.

My friend knows me pretty well I guess and she said I was probably primal, and thats cool and all but I mean I would like to learn more about Primal. I have myself tagged as it on FetLife cuz it "feels" right but I cant find a whole heck of a bunch telling me what it is objectively. Is everything I described like the objective parts of what primal is or is there more? Less? I dont know.


Each and every one of us is 'primal', because primal is part of all animal nature and all human nature.

The basic drive of human beings include a desire for sex, food, security, being accepted and playfulness. That playfulness may include BDSM, kinky sex, behaving promiscuously or it may be nothing to do with sex. Primal instinct is often suppressed by the ethics of man but it doesn't take away the fact that we are all primal. Its the core of our makeup.

I think when people describe themselves as 'primal' within the context of BDSM, they are saying that they play/scene or whatever we call it in an anamalistic way. They are not passive but hungry and wild, perhaps aggressive and sometimes even ruthless.



(in reply to ChasingMyTale)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:27:48 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		http://www.thefreedictionary.com/primal

Now if you are use it in combination with another word, I would say primal BDSM is different than a primal instinct, as you are using the noun to clarify the context, your idea of primal BDSM might differ from others, but heck, there are a ton of words that have different meanings in vanilla, try CBT ;)

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to ChasingMyTale)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:36:09 AM   
pg4g


Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

For some this play is rather shocking and disturbing to watch. A bottom fighting back for many could be a warning flag of concern to the consensual nature of the play at hand. For many Tops a bottom fighting back can give them the appearance that consent is being revoked and are unable to continue to play as result. It is indeed important that those participating in the play have clear understanding of the nature of primal play. It is important to understand how such play can or will be stopped. One should understand the risks associated with this kind of play. I personally have been dropped to the floor, kicked, punched, bit, scratched and even took a knee into the groin. A bottom that fight back will feel the force of the Top against their resistance. A Top will use equal force to the bottom’s resistance, plus one. This “plus one” is the appropriate force to bring submission and break the resistance. For the bottom, there is always the risk that this “plus One” will be more than they can tolerate and the extra force could be sufficient to cause more than immediate submission in the scene, but a lasting negative impact outside the scene. For the Top, you will always run the risk that the bottom’s resistance will be greater than the force you are will to exert to bring enforced submission. As a Top that play a lot in Primal play, I protect against these risk with one factor and one factor alone… Keep my girl free of harm. If I am unsure that my girl can take the “plus one” to bring enforced submission, I will end the play. If I am unsure of my ability to use “plus one” to enforce submission, I will end the play. The point of primal play is not to see who wins… but to have fun free of Harm!



Several things here.

Very much people can find it disturbing seeing me fight back. Because it's built into my nature, my fight back isn't fake. What is happening to me looks VERY much like rape and torture, and you'd be certain that there is no consent there. Teaching my partner about myself, that he doesn't need to worry so much about that, and that he needs to "plus one" and build up the energy in the scene was difficult at first.

I personally don't have "too much plus one force" but there is a lasting impact outside a scene. Generally it can require me to decompress, and that takes place either in aftercare, or alone.

Your last point about unsure if you can plus one, and then ending it? As a switch that isn't an issue. For me, part of it is seeing who wins. If you can't, and you haven't set up appropriate restraints to force the other to submit, you'll lose the fight and then you're the bottom.

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Primal BDSM - 3/6/2014 11:46:28 AM   
ChasingMyTale


Posts: 31
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/primal

Now if you are use it in combination with another word, I would say primal BDSM is different than a primal instinct, as you are using the noun to clarify the context, your idea of primal BDSM might differ from others, but heck, there are a ton of words that have different meanings in vanilla, try CBT ;)



I feel as though you may be being a bit facetious though I may be wrong, and apologize if I am being overly sensitive. If you are though I would like to know if I have in some way offended you as I would like to make amends.





quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexisANew


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChasingMyTale

So I recently found myself being told that primal was probably my sexuality. I was describing how I could Dom if needed, and how I technically sub (Thought Im a smart ass) when needed to. I described how to me it was all about the fight and the struggle and how thats what made sex fun and actually makes relationships more fun to me.

My friend knows me pretty well I guess and she said I was probably primal, and thats cool and all but I mean I would like to learn more about Primal. I have myself tagged as it on FetLife cuz it "feels" right but I cant find a whole heck of a bunch telling me what it is objectively. Is everything I described like the objective parts of what primal is or is there more? Less? I dont know.


Each and every one of us is 'primal', because primal is part of all animal nature and all human nature.

The basic drive of human beings include a desire for sex, food, security, being accepted and playfulness. That playfulness may include BDSM, kinky sex, behaving promiscuously or it may be nothing to do with sex. Primal instinct is often suppressed by the ethics of man but it doesn't take away the fact that we are all primal. Its the core of our makeup.

I think when people describe themselves as 'primal' within the context of BDSM, they are saying that they play/scene or whatever we call it in an anamalistic way. They are not passive but hungry and wild, perhaps aggressive and sometimes even ruthless.





I want to apologize in advance as my mind has kind of slipped into a someone simplistic state yet analytical state and this is not meant in offense but simply as exposition with no intended directive, but doesn't the first half of that description seem a bit superfluous. If the answer is "everything is primal" than in essence you say that nothing is primal, in the sense that descriptive words generally define qualities (within the confines of the intended context) that separate one thing from another. We acknowledge we have sight because there are things that do not qualify as having sight. In the context of this conversation, I do not believe the implied context is "Everything and anything" but "Terms and applications of the BDSM lifestyle" and within such context should then be inferred that that would be the topic of discussion and in such context to say that every person is primal minimizes the word itself thus disincorporating its meaning.... I apologize again for the exposition, I just needed a moment to reflect thank you :D

(in reply to AlexisANew)
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