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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 5:02:33 AM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		Three of the best, and actually reasonable, cops around here I know are black. It's the young white ones you gotta watch out for.

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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 5:25:24 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		My neighbor is a police officer. One of the kindest people in the neighborhood. He knocked on our door one day and brought us tomatoes out of their garden. He has a disabled daughter and every day it is him helping the bus driver with the wheelchair lift. I know they can hear my kids and I arguing sometimes, never a word from them. Great neighbors even when I know we arent!!!!

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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 6:15:10 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline 		FR

I'm not really fearful of the police when I'm in my own city, since I've been here long enough to know how things work in the local hierarchy. I know that they have bosses to answer to, so any given police officer out on the street is not his own man. I'm can't say that I'm particularly "connected" here, but I've been around the block enough times to know how things work here locally so that I can get by with very little difficulty or fear from city police.

However, there's a smaller town nearby where the cops are known to be assholes, and the place has a reputation as a speed trap, so I try to avoid that town as much as possible. Similarly, I'm a bit leery of the Sheriff's department and DPS. However, I think the Border Patrol is probably the worst of the bunch, since they're backed by Federal power and there's nothing local to restrain them.

In other words, I don't actually fear the police as much as I fear the political power behind them. If it's local police, no problem, since city governments are generally lowest on the political food chain and easiest for the average citizen to deal with.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 6:23:39 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
no wait, Joe Arpaio,



You sicken me.

Arpaio has the wrong letter by his name, so he gets famous, and dumbass kneejerk libbies get told to hate him. Meanwhile, down in LA County we had Lee Baca, who didn't have the wrong letter by his name, and was a beloved fixture of liberals and Democrats, right up until he resigned a month ago over the years long scandals in his department. Has Arpaio got 20 deputies under federal indictment? Which is worse? Inmates in pink undies, or inmates being beaten by gangs of deputies? Inmates in tents, or inmates who can't get medical attention? Has Arpaio got a deputy who was released from desk duty after his 6th officer involved shooting, so he could out and score his 7th? This is all just in the last couple of months.



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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 6:32:23 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA

1. I'm African American and my neighborhood is mostly African-Americans and Hispanics. We all fear the police; so much so that we walk in groups so that if I police officer stops us we can pull out our cellphone and video tape what is going on. The trouble happens when you walk alone.

2. I'm taking a Law Enforcement class and the instructor is an attorney and used to be the DA of Los Angeles. He claims that 98% of police officers are honest and full of good intentions. It's rare that a police officer will lie and it's best to think of them as "Peace Officers."

I was wondering how white people view police? Are you afraid of them?



No, I am not afraid of them. I tend to agree with your instructor although I am not sure I would put the percent that high. I think they have a shitty job and it's has to be hard to know some people want you dead based solely on your occupation. I also think it's very sad that you go through life with this kind of fear. They are everywhere and that is never going to change. I think I would have to find a way to work through that just to keep my sanity. I also found it interesting that you aimed your questions at white people. Does this mean you don't care how other African Americans feel about police? I would think that you would want everyone's opinion.

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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 6:57:43 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		I'm afraid of anyone who can have that much power over me with no/little/created and/or coerced cause.

And I say this as a man who went to jail because the police invaded my house,then,ex post facto,lied and said I had, "Invited them in."

Bitch-I ain't invite a cop anywhere my whole life, except maybe to fuck his own self.

Course,in all fairness, I have real trouble with any authority in my life that ain't me

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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 7:34:32 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

I'm white and I don't fear police, generally speaking. I am, however, keeping an eye on them. YouTube has videos of peaceful, American demonstrators being surrounded by forces that are dressed as soldiers and ride in on tanks. People have been hurt and arrested for doing absolutely nothing at all.

I was told by a guy who had been in the military, was deployed to Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan and worked at the NSA, that some years ago, during Bush, the American soldier's oath changed from, and I'm quoting loosely, "I promise to protect my President against all enemies, both foreign AND domestic." It used to say they'd protect their country. This change allows the President to treat citizens with lethal and military force.

I asked the soldier, without breaching any confidences, what was his advice for how any American family can prepare for the future. I was thinking of global warming and if I should move out of Florida soon, and if there was a better place to reside. But, his answer, "Every American needs to own a gun and be proficient in using it." Goosebumps.

So, I'm seeing the American police force become more militarized and I know that Bush expanded presidential powers to use them against us. Not afraid... but definitely paying attention.

Bullshit.

The oath is unchanged.

(in reply to BecomingV)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 7:55:20 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
no wait, Joe Arpaio,



You sicken me.

Arpaio has the wrong letter by his name, so he gets famous, and dumbass kneejerk libbies get told to hate him. Meanwhile, down in LA County we had Lee Baca, who didn't have the wrong letter by his name, and was a beloved fixture of liberals and Democrats, right up until he resigned a month ago over the years long scandals in his department. Has Arpaio got 20 deputies under federal indictment? Which is worse? Inmates in pink undies, or inmates being beaten by gangs of deputies? Inmates in tents, or inmates who can't get medical attention? Has Arpaio got a deputy who was released from desk duty after his 6th officer involved shooting, so he could out and score his 7th? This is all just in the last couple of months.

How about the hundreds of uninvestigated sexual assaults?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/05/381749/arizona-sheriff-joe-arpaio-failed-to-investigate-over-400-sex-crimes-including-molestations-of-undocumented-children/

Then of course are all the deaths of people in custody
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maricopa_County_Sheriff's_Office_controversies#Inmate_deaths_and_injuries

Then of course he tried to use the power of his office to silence his critics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maricopa_County_Sheriff's_Office_controversies#Lawsuits_filed_by_Joe_Arpaio_and_the_MCSO

And finally he remains in office unlike Baca.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 8:11:44 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Sure thing, Ken. ThinkProgress is certainly going to be out there investigating goldenboy Baca, who makes the right noises in dumbass libbie ears, while disabled inmates in his jail crawl in their own feces.

Trained seals, barking on cue.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 8:24:14 AM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
Status: offline 		Why does the oath for enlisted soldiers differ from that of the officers? I've bolded the part that's different.

I do see the change listed as happening between 1959 and 1962. So why then, did deployed soldiers have to swear a new oath which shifted power to the President? Civilians have always been in charge of our military. Pre-Bush, Jr, that is.

Lots of hugely important changes happened to America, and the choices that made them happen were made in an ignorant rush. I can believe that something as profound as a shift of power from civilians to the President can happen under the radar. Just because no change date is listed on the Army site, does not convince me that the change didn't happen.

Back on point, though, America's police force is being trained in military techniques, being outfitted in combat gear and supplied with tanks. SWAT teams and regular police are not so different anymore. Why send a military-looking police force to an American gathering of free speech and public protest?

When cops look like cops, no problem. When cops look like the military - there's a problem, and fear is appropriate.

http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

I'm white and I don't fear police, generally speaking. I am, however, keeping an eye on them. YouTube has videos of peaceful, American demonstrators being surrounded by forces that are dressed as soldiers and ride in on tanks. People have been hurt and arrested for doing absolutely nothing at all.

I was told by a guy who had been in the military, was deployed to Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan and worked at the NSA, that some years ago, during Bush, the American soldier's oath changed from, and I'm quoting loosely, "I promise to protect my President against all enemies, both foreign AND domestic." It used to say they'd protect their country. This change allows the President to treat citizens with lethal and military force.

I asked the soldier, without breaching any confidences, what was his advice for how any American family can prepare for the future. I was thinking of global warming and if I should move out of Florida soon, and if there was a better place to reside. But, his answer, "Every American needs to own a gun and be proficient in using it." Goosebumps.

So, I'm seeing the American police force become more militarized and I know that Bush expanded presidential powers to use them against us. Not afraid... but definitely paying attention.

Bullshit.

The oath is unchanged.


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Previously known as:
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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 8:32:55 AM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline 		The truth points to itself.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 8:35:02 AM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline 		Sorry, this should have gone along with my pithy response.




Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 8:42:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

Why does the oath for enlisted soldiers differ from that of the officers? I've bolded the part that's different.

I do see the change listed as happening between 1959 and 1962. So why then, did deployed soldiers have to swear a new oath which shifted power to the President? Civilians have always been in charge of our military. Pre-Bush, Jr, that is.

Lots of hugely important changes happened to America, and the choices that made them happen were made in an ignorant rush. I can believe that something as profound as a shift of power from civilians to the President can happen under the radar. Just because no change date is listed on the Army site, does not convince me that the change didn't happen.

Back on point, though, America's police force is being trained in military techniques, being outfitted in combat gear and supplied with tanks. SWAT teams and regular police are not so different anymore. Why send a military-looking police force to an American gathering of free speech and public protest?

When cops look like cops, no problem. When cops look like the military - there's a problem, and fear is appropriate.

http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

I'm white and I don't fear police, generally speaking. I am, however, keeping an eye on them. YouTube has videos of peaceful, American demonstrators being surrounded by forces that are dressed as soldiers and ride in on tanks. People have been hurt and arrested for doing absolutely nothing at all.

I was told by a guy who had been in the military, was deployed to Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan and worked at the NSA, that some years ago, during Bush, the American soldier's oath changed from, and I'm quoting loosely, "I promise to protect my President against all enemies, both foreign AND domestic." It used to say they'd protect their country. This change allows the President to treat citizens with lethal and military force.

I asked the soldier, without breaching any confidences, what was his advice for how any American family can prepare for the future. I was thinking of global warming and if I should move out of Florida soon, and if there was a better place to reside. But, his answer, "Every American needs to own a gun and be proficient in using it." Goosebumps.

So, I'm seeing the American police force become more militarized and I know that Bush expanded presidential powers to use them against us. Not afraid... but definitely paying attention.

Bullshit.

The oath is unchanged.


Enlisted men are at the bottom of the chain of command and are expected to obey the orders of the officers above them.

(in reply to BecomingV)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 8:42:28 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA

I was wondering how white people view police? Are you afraid of them?

I am white and I don't trust American cops, period.. I never felt that way about cops until I came to the US but some of the laws here are incredibly stupid and give cops the opportunity to abuse them (& anyone they target).. take forfeiture laws, they can stop you and take your cash and seize your vehicle (& other assets) claiming its illegal profit from crime (usually drugs).. they don't even need to charge you with any crime to have the legal right to keep those cash/assets.. then if you want to get them back you have to hire and pay for a lawyer to get them back for you which is why some cops only seize small amounts of cash (like $15k & under cuz that's what a lawyer will charge you so even if you win, you lose)..
Cops here can go onto private property (like motels, apartment complexes) and cruze around scanning vehicle license plates.. (one good reason to not own a vehicle)... I personally consider stuff like that an invasion of my privacy (which you don't get much of here in the US).
Then there are the sexual assaults (they call em body searches) when they claim a person has drugs on/in them.. several cases of repeated (without consent) cavity searches, X-rays, etc done at hospitals then when nothing is found the victim is sent a bill for $5k..
There are areas where you cant turn around without seeing a cop, here there must be a very high ratio of cops for every 1,000 people.. so imo they need to justify their existence & expansion with arrests, etc..
As far as cops not lying goes, of course they lie, especially when they want to get more evidence against you.. there is a reason you have the right to remain silent so how else can they get you to flap away and incriminate yourself if they don't lie to you.. it makes their job easier..
I come from a freer country so to me, the US is like living in Russia.. (or peoples perception of what Russia is like).. really, with the Patriot Act & unlimited detention.. it has become that.. and its not going to get better.. the govt doesn't want to give up its expanded power and cops are agents of the govt..

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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 8:43:26 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Sure thing, Ken. ThinkProgress is certainly going to be out there investigating goldenboy Baca, who makes the right noises in dumbass libbie ears, while disabled inmates in his jail crawl in their own feces.

Trained seals, barking on cue.

So IOW you got nothing. How utterly unsurprising.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 9:01:07 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		The average IQ of police is not particularly high (intentionally so, see the article). http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/01/court-oks-barring-smart-people-from-beco

And they are trained and armed with a gun.

We have (or had) rights in the Constitution to protect ordinary people from the police because it was understood, even back in the day, how much power the police/government has and that there needed to be some restrictions on them in order to protect individuals from police and prosecutorial abuse. I say had because since 9/11 it seems most of these rights have been effectively gutted. They are in the Constitution in name only.

To be honest, more people (regardless of their background) should be fearful of cops.


But then there are other issues.

Let's take the country's history and add to it the fact that being black or Hispanic affects the perception that any cop (whatever their race is) has of someone.

Let's be honest it is probably much less likely for someone white or Asian to be harassed by the police as compared to those of African or Hispanic background. And that has to affect how certain groups of people interact with police. If someone has good reason to be more fearful of the police to begin with (because they know innocent people have been harassed/arrested/charged and sometimes even convicted) I think fear is going to kick in at a very high level even when a cop stops them to ask a simple question.

I am sure that whether people approach the police for help is also predicated on their background.

I have had minimal interactions with police - been pulled over for speeding a few times in my life (two were in the daytime, one at night who seemed very nervous), had a cop going door-to-door once to warn people about a sexual assailant, and twice have asked assistance of a cop (one was helpful, one not so much). Of these one was black, two Hispanic, the rest white. They were all polite. The only one who made me feel uncomfortable was the one night time vehicle stop where he seemed on edge - and I will be honest that made me excessively nervous. I am generally not in situations where I worry about interactions with cops. But I do feel that for those who encounter cops on a more regular basis, most of that interaction is probably not positive, or at the very least not trust-inducing.

The world would be a better place if every mother could tell there child that they can trust the police to help them, or to treat them fairly in a situation, but we would all be lying to ourselves if we thought that was true. My white friends who shoplifted when they were young who were typically treated to a police warning and a quick return to their home. My black friends who did the same generally had a very different interaction with the police. This is a reality of life in the U.S. today that I do not see changing for a long time.

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RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 10:38:56 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA
I was wondering how white people view police? Are you afraid of them?

I refer to them as "thugs with badges".

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 10:48:20 AM   
MstrPBK


Posts: 573
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA
1. I'm African American and my neighborhood is mostly African-Americans and Hispanics. We all fear the police; so much so that we walk in groups so that if I police officer stops us we can pull out our cellphone and video tape what is going on. The trouble happens when you walk alone.

2. I'm taking a Law Enforcement class and the instructor is an attorney and used to be the DA of Los Angeles. He claims that 98% of police officers are honest and full of good intentions. It's rare that a police officer will lie and it's best to think of them as "Peace Officers."

I was wondering how white people view police? Are you afraid of them?


Personal biased opinion here:

I silently have the same concern as you and your fellow neighbors might have. I can't let my fear become a phobia. I would like to think that most officers are above board and honest; but at the same time I have realize we live in a society which seems to be acceptable to believe "that if your not caught do what ever you want".

As a Caucasian I probably do not sense your level of anxiety, but I have 'heard' the stories and one I feel ought to take a balanced care. (passing thought) It would be interesting to understand where the mistrust originated from in your neighborhood, maybe as a student in Law Enforcement student you could do a study to try to find a systematic way to defuse the tension of mistrust within your neighborhood.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

(in reply to LorraineCA)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 11:01:36 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I have spent most of my life around cops.
About 5% shouldn't be allowed out without armed adult supervision.
About 85% it is a job like any other.
About 10% are genetically predisposed to protect people. You could almost call them heroic.
The problem with most peoples view of cops is that the 5% get 95% of the press.


Well shit, we finally agree on something!



Law of averages, had to happen on something.

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Fearful Of Police - 3/8/2014 12:06:24 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I will admit that there are probably bad cops in the US, I will even admit that there are racists on police forces.

However, as I have gotten called on the carpet for making blanket statements about groups of people, I feel that this is one of those statements.

Consider that the average patrol officer's salary across the country is just over $55,000 a year. This means that the pay does not equal the risk taken, the same is true for the military. And in high crime areas, I can see why police officers act in a highly aggressive even brutal manner.

source

Unfortunately, this occupation draws more than the average share of sadistic personalities for the very reason it gives a person some authority over other people.



_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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