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Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 10:17:11 AM

MercTech

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My take is that to many people, and most politicians, "perception" IS reality.

For your perusal for the classic perception of marijuana, I give you a link to the film "Reefer Madness" from 1938.

https://archive.org/details/reefer_madness1938

I consider this film a good example of the scare tactics used to convince the population to accept criminalization of activities that had been legal for decades when the medical community was still debating the merits of many of the substances that were being banned.

Bit of historical trivia: I still have my great grandfather's Marijuana Grower's License from World War II. Since the stems were used for rope and the leaves discarded; I wonder why people were surprised someone found a use for the leaves.

Link to "Hemp for Victory"
https://archive.org/details/Hemp_for_victory_1942_FIXED

Now for the question for debate:

Would the country be better or worse off if Marijuana was removed from the banned drug lists and treated like tobacco and alcohol (have hellacious excise tax on it and sale restricted by location and age of purchasers).

Post #: 1

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 10:57:15 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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I've been pro legalization for the last 45 years. We know prohibition doesn't work, and the war on drugs is a very expensive joke.

At this point I don't have much of a dog in this hunt, as I haven't smoked at all in at least 10 years, not regularly for over 30. If I had the option I'd like to see how it works on my arthritis but IN will be one of the last states to approve medical marijuana.

There are likely numerous medical uses for marijuana that have not been explored.

BTW: Hemp can be used for many things, not just rope. Paper products made out of hemp are easier to recycle than those made from wood pulp, and are more durable.

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:18:12 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Now for the question for debate:

Would the country be better or worse off if Marijuana was removed from the banned drug lists and treated like tobacco and alcohol (have hellacious excise tax on it and sale restricted by location and age of purchasers).

Just an aside, off the top of my head to begin: I'm almost positive "Reefer Madness" was 1936.

Now, on to the main course ...

I have to answer your question on two levels. Your question seems skewed towards a government-influenced benefit to the country. While I do see "ilicite" drugs as an un-tapped tax source and I agree with your assessment, there's the other side of the coin.

I believe that there are problems that would also rear their ugly heads.

I think we would see a spike in addiction that I'm sure some of the same pot smokers would demand be addressed by the public and our tax dollars (which could obliterate any tax advantage gained from legalization).

I think we would see teen-agers getting easier access to marijuana in the same ways that they have easier access to alcohol as compared to when it was illegal.

I see an up-tick in DUI (of marijuana). I see issues with companies that require drug tests as part of pre-employment screening. I see "discrimination" law suits based on those company policies.

While I am not opposed to legalization (in fact I believe that what you put into your body is none of my business), I believe that I shouldn't have to bear responsibility for your decisions. These are things that we are going to have to address; preferably before legalization.

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/10/2014 11:20:03 AM >

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:30:17 AM

MercTech

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The Prelinger Archive on the web at Archive.org lists "Reefer Madness" as from 1938 and I didn't check their dating.

The only real world data I know of on liberalization of drug laws would be Holland and their liberal policies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/netherlands_v_us#sthash.lsJcvvHK.dpbs

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:37:44 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I see an up-tick in DUI (of marijuana).

Just FYI...

Drivers under the influence of marijuana retain insight in their performance and will compensate where they can, for example, by slowing down or increasing effort. As a consequence, THC's adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small. ~US DOT

The present study generally confirms that heavy cannabis users develop tolerance to the impairing effects of THC on neurocognitive task performance. ~Psychopharmacology

K.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 5

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:39:39 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

The Prelinger Archive on the web at Archive.org lists "Reefer Madness" as from 1938 and I didn't check their dating.

The only real world data I know of on liberalization of drug laws would be Holland and their liberal policies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/netherlands_v_us#sthash.lsJcvvHK.dpbs

I just double-checked and IMDB has "Reefer Madness" as 1936.

As far as Holland goes; it's a different situation to this country. I don't think the societies or laws are analogous.

I think watching what happens over the next couple of years in Colorado and Washington is where the rubber meets the road.

Let me get a bit more specific, based upon one of my above examples:

In Colorado, you're allowed to smoke weed. I don't have the exact numbers but marijuana breaks down into several (possibly 100?) chemicals over the course of 30 days in the human body. The test for marijuana tests for some of these "building block" chemicals. So that you may not still have THC in your blood but you have other things that are quantifiable.

At what point does marijuana start to not affect a person? Three hours? Five hours? 10 hours? Two weeks?

I have a right to work in an alcohol and drug-free workplace. We need to establish where that line is between your rights and mine.

As it stands now, if you smoke a joint on Friday and go for a pre-employment screening on the following Thursday, marijuana (or it's building block chemicals) will probably be present in your blood. Can the company still exclude you, based upon that outcome? Should they be able to?

Those last two questions go back to my assertion that we need to define where the line of under the influence/not under the influence is.

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:44:05 AM

GoddessManko

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Good topic, MAJOR cash revenue, MAJOR growth potential, ALMOST UNTAPPED sector(New York stock exchange), MAJORRRRRRRR tax benefits for the state, would help law enforcement track down traffickers MUCH more easily.
Cali would be wise to follow CO in lockstep since Marijuana is like coffee out there and they have a hard time balancing their budget for YEARS.
Just my two cents.
The demand for this is increasingly more mainstream.

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:44:09 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I see an up-tick in DUI (of marijuana).

Just FYI...

Drivers under the influence of marijuana retain insight in their performance and will compensate where they can, for example, by slowing down or increasing effort. As a consequence, THC's adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small. ~US DOT

The present study generally confirms that heavy cannabis users develop tolerance to the impairing effects of THC on neurocognitive task performance. ~Psychopharmacology

K.

Heavy drinkers develop a tolerance, also. I knew people that couldn't function in the morning until they were over the "legal limit" and their driving was not impaired (because I rode in the vehicle with them. Construction crews are a hearty lot).

I don't doubt for a moment that the human body can develop a tolerance to just about anything. I have an uncle that had to work his way up to ten drops of arsenic a day to treat his ridiculously weak fingernails.

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:47:32 AM

RottenJohnny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Just an aside, off the top of my head to begin: I'm almost positive "Reefer Madness" was 1936.

Now, on to the main course ...

I have to answer your question on two levels. Your question seems skewed towards a government-influenced benefit to the country. While I do see "ilicite" drugs as an un-tapped tax source and I agree with your assessment, there's the other side of the coin.

I believe that there are problems that would also rear their ugly heads.

I think we would see a spike in addiction that I'm sure some of the same pot smokers would demand be addressed by the public and our tax dollars (which could obliterate any tax advantage gained from legalization).

I think we would see teen-agers getting easier access to marijuana in the same ways that they have easier access to alcohol as compared to when it was illegal.

I see an up-tick in DUI (of marijuana). I see issues with companies that require drug tests as part of pre-employment screening. I see "discrimination" law suits based on those company policies.

While I am not opposed to legalization (in fact I believe that what you put into your body is none of my business), I believe that I shouldn't have to bear responsibility for your decisions. These are things that we are going to have to address; preferably before legalization.

I couldn't have said it better myself, DS. Nevertheless, there is one more thing that comes to mind for me...

Looking at the history of things like alcohol, drugs, smoking, etc, the thing that I have noticed is that after the initial upward spike in consumption, public scrutiny tends to push things back down. Left to our own devices, we usually wise up after awhile.

Beyond that, I'll just add this general comment...

People say that the drug war is bullshit, and as far as spending billions to try stopping the trafficking, I tend to agree. But there's nothing wrong with the message that you'd be better off if you weren't getting high because it's true. So I'm okay with legalization as long as we keep reasonable controls on it and don't let the business world turn it into a new sport.

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 11:48:54 AM

FrostedFlake

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Without prohibition you don't have artificial value to trade and profit on, and you don't have a hammer to hit people with if they try to become involved in the business.

Of course, that's just paranoid ravings, right?

Unless you notice the CIA et al, selling drugs to buy weapons to sell to countries Congress said not to to get money to buy drugs from guerrilla armies all over the World to sell to kids to get money to support guerrilla armies all over the World trying to overthrow elected governments and run things by force. If the drugs are legalized, all this warmongering and neckstomping has to find another source of funding. Or, ...quit.

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 12:19:34 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

... Nevertheless, there is one more thing that comes to mind for me...

Looking at the history of things like alcohol, drugs, smoking, etc, the thing that I have noticed is that after the initial upward spike in consumption, public scrutiny tends to push things back down. Left to our own devices, we usually wise up after awhile.

I have often made the argument that if we went to a place with really strict gun laws (say NYC since it's a place with which I'm familiar) and eliminated most of those gun laws so that law -abiding citizens could own and carry guns that there would be a six-twelve month spike in the murder rate; that some people would "solve grudges", drug wars would escalate, etc. and then, the murder rate would drop back down.

The people that argued against that viewpoint have said: "Those deaths are acceptable to you?"

So, I ask: How many extra lives lost to addiction (be it to death or just "ruined") is an acceptable number until we "wise up"?

Just some food for thought.

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/10/2014 12:21:57 PM >

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 12:24:59 PM

MercTech

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I just double-checked and IMDB has "Reefer Madness" as 1936.

As far as Holland goes; it's a different situation to this country. I don't think the societies or laws are analogous.

I think watching what happens over the next couple of years in Colorado and Washington is where the rubber meets the road.

Let me get a bit more specific, based upon one of my above examples:

In Colorado, you're allowed to smoke weed. I don't have the exact numbers but marijuana breaks down into several (possibly 100?) chemicals over the course of 30 days in the human body. The test for marijuana tests for some of these "building block" chemicals. So that you may not still have THC in your blood but you have other things that are quantifiable.

At what point does marijuana start to not affect a person? Three hours? Five hours? 10 hours? Two weeks?

I have a right to work in an alcohol and drug-free workplace. We need to establish where that line is between your rights and mine.

As it stands now, if you smoke a joint on Friday and go for a pre-employment screening on the following Thursday, marijuana (or it's building block chemicals) will probably be present in your blood. Can the company still exclude you, based upon that outcome? Should they be able to?

Those last two questions go back to my assertion that we need to define where the line of under the influence/not under the influence is.

Ok, Archive.org got it wrong on the date. Still a good example of an anti-drug propaganda film from the era.

Effect of pot over time: I did a quick check for references.
http://www.marijuanacentral.com/drug_testing/how_long_does_marijuana_stay_in_your_system.html
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis

quote:

Sustainability in the body
Main article: Cannabis drug testing

Most cannabinoids are lipophilic (fat soluble) compounds that are easily stored in fat, thus yielding a long elimination half-life relative to other recreational drugs. The THC molecule, and related compounds, are usually detectable in drug tests from 3 days up to 10 days according to Redwood Laboratories; heavy users can produce positive tests for up to 3 months after ceasing cannabis use (see drug test).[citation needed]

Drug free workplace:
http://www.dol.gov/elaws/drugfree.htm

I work in an industry where random drug and alcohol testing is required by federal licensing laws.

Were Marijuana legal, the same restrictions on alcohol consumption might be applied: (summary of common "fit for duty" policies)

1> No alcohol use at work and possession of alcoholic beverages on company property is forbidden. Yep, if you have a six pack on the back seat of your car you may be fired.

2> No use of illegal substances or possession of illegal substances is tolerated on company property. Conviction of a crime involving illegal substances is cause for immediate termination.

3> Employees must refrain from alcohol use for five hours before scheduled report for work. If an emergency call-out; your supervisor should be informed if you have consumed alcohol within the previous five hours after which you will be evaluated whether fit for duty.

4> If you have a drug or alcohol program you should contact the Employee Assistance Program. You will be referred to treatment and submit to regular drug testing while under treatment.

5> If you have a medical condition that could affect your fitness for duty or are taking prescription medication that could affect your fitness for duty you should inform your supervisor upon return to work.

Now some companies are trying to deny use of physician prescribed medication as part of a "drug free workplace". This is a rights issue that has yet to be resolved.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/us/25drugs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I've had difficulty with this attitude as I have a prescription for Tramadol to be taken as needed for osteo arthritis pain. Tramadol is a prescription pain medication that is the next step above things like Aspirin, Tylenol, Motrin, or Aleve. But, Tramodol is not an analgesic but an opiod-agonizer (it stimulates serotonin and endorphin production like opium but without producing a high or being addictive). Some people see that and go obtusely resistant to legitimate uses for it.
I was once required to sign an affidavit stating that I swore not to take my Tramadol while I was working at a TVA site.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 12

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 12:36:38 PM

Kumagenki

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"I think we would see a spike in addiction that I'm sure some of the same pot smokers would demand be addressed by the public and our tax dollars (which could obliterate any tax advantage gained from legalization)."

Addiction to what? Marijuana? That would certainly not be a physical addiction. Let's assume for some reason legal MJ would increase addiction across the board. Before ranting about tax money spent, why not ask why a safe, cheap, effective cure for addiction would be schedule 1 in the states. (Ibogaine) Oh yes, because pharmaceutical lobbies own your government.

"I think we would see teen-agers getting easier access to marijuana in the same ways that they have easier access to alcohol as compared to when it was illegal."

Are you joking? Sometimes I wish I was a high school student because getting weed would be so much easier.

"I see an up-tick in DUI (of marijuana). I see issues with companies that require drug tests as part of pre-employment screening. I see "discrimination" law suits based on those company policies."

Colorado has shown a statistical down-tick in traffic fatalities since legalization.
Colorado Historical Fatal Crash Trends - Updated 2/8/2014
Colorado fatal crashes 2002: 677
Colorado fatal crashes 2004: 596
(dispensaries open in 2009)
Colorado fatal crashes 2009: 438
Colorado fatal crashes 2012: 433
(marijuana legalized 2012)
Colorado fatal Crashes 2013: 422
* Source of Data: Colorado DOT & "As Reported" to NHTSA by FARS

Regardless of whether the local LEOs decide to bring people up on false charges of impairment for something they smoked weeks ago, there is a clear link between legal marijuana and safer roads. Here is some educational and scientific reading not based on assumptions and guesswork - States with medical marijuana have:

9% less traffic fatalities. "
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-30/strategy/30457944_1_medical-marijuana-laws-traffic-fatalities-gateway-drug

5% lower suicide rates "
http://www.americanindependent.com/212738/study-suicide-rates-fall-when-states-legalize-medical-marijuana

Marijuana and Driving: A Review of the Scientific Evidence
"Marijuana has a measurable yet relatively mild effect on psychomotor skills, yet it does not appear to play a significant role in vehicle crashes, particularly when compared to alcohol. Below is a summary of some of the existing data."
http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence

"There was no indication that cannabis by itself was a cause of fatal crashes.”
REFERENCE: Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration,
Report No. DOT HS 808 065, K. Terhune. 1992.
http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/26000/26600/26685/DOT_HS_808_065.pdf

Marijuana and actual driving performance
“Drivers under the influence of marijuana retain insight in their performance and will compensate when they can, for example, by slowing down or increasing effort. As a consequence, THC’s adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small.”
REFERENCE: U.S. Department of Transportation study, 1993
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Misc/driving/s1p2.htm

Marijuana’s effects on actual driving performance
“Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution”
REFERENCE: University of Adelaide study, 1995
www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Misc/driving/s1p2.htm

Role of cannabis in motor vehicle crashes
"There is no evidence that consumption of cannabis alone increases the risk of culpability for traffic crash fatalities or injuries for which hospitalization occurs, and may reduce those risks.. The more cautious behavior of subjects who have received marijuana decreases the impact of the drug on performance, whereas the opposite holds true for alcohol.”
REFERENCE: Marijuana: On-Road and Driving-Simulator Studies; Epidemiologic Reviews 21: 222-232, A. Smiley. 1999.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10682259

"Both simulation and road trials generally find that driving behaviour shortly after consumption of larger doses of cannabis results in (i) a more cautious driving style; (ii) increased variability in lane position (and headway); and (iii) longer decision times. Whereas these results indicate a 'change' from normal conditions, they do not necessarily reflect 'impairment' in terms of performance effectiveness since few studies report increased accident risk."
REFERENCE: UK Department of Environment, Transport and the Regions (Road Safety Division). 2000.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
/http:/www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme3/cannabisanddrivingareviewoft4764?page=12

Cannabis And Cannabinoids - Pharmacology, Toxicology And Therapy
“At the present time, the evidence to suggest an involvement of cannabis in road crashes is scientifically unproven”.
REFERENCE: G. Chesher and M. Longo. 2002.
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Books/General/Cannabis%20And%20Cannabinoids%20-%20Pharmacology,Toxicology%20And%20Therapy.pdf

Cannabis: Our position for a Canadian Public Policy
“Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving. Cannabis leads to a more cautious style of driving. However it has a negative impact on decision time and trajectory. This in itself does not mean that drivers under the influence of cannabis represent a traffic safety risk”
REFERENCE: Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs. 2002.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/371/ille/rep/summary-e.htm

“The evidence to suggest an involvement of cannabis in road crashes is scientifically unproven.”
REFERENCE: Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential, 2002
Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential, edited by Franjo Grotenhermen, MD and Ethan Russo, MD (Haworth Press 2002).
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Books/General/Cannabis%20And%20Cannabinoids%20-%20Pharmacology,Toxicology%20And%20Therapy.pdf

The Prevalence of Drug Use in Drivers, and Characteristics of the Drug-Positive Group
"There was a clear relationship between alcohol and culpability. In contrast, there was no significant increase in culpability for cannabinoids alone."
REFERENCE: Accident Analysis and Prevention 32(5): 613-622. Longo, MC; Hunter, CE; Lokan, RJ; White, JM; and White, MA. (2000a).
http://www.grotenhermen.com/driving/longo1.pdf

The Effect Of Cannabis Compared With Alcohol On Driving
“Although cognitive studies suggest that cannabis use may lead to unsafe driving, experimental studies have suggested that it can have the opposite effect.” U.S. National Library of Medicine, 2009
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

The Effect Of Cannabis Compared With Alcohol On Driving
“Although cognitive studies suggest that cannabis use may lead to unsafe driving, experimental studies have suggested that it can have the opposite effect.”
REFERENCE: U.S. National Library of Medicine, 2009
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

Why Medical Marijuana Laws Reduce Traffic Deaths
“No differences were found during the baseline driving segment (and the) collision avoidance scenarios,”
REFERENCE: Research published in the Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 2010
http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/why-medical-marijuana-laws-reduce-traffic-deaths/

Top 10 Reasons Marijuana Users Are Safer Drivers
“20 years of study has concluded that marijuana smokers may actually have fewer accidents than other drivers.”
http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/

Risk of severe driver injury by driving with psychoactive substances
"The study found that those with a blood alcohol level of 0.12% were over 30 times more likely to get into a serious accident than someone who’s consumed any amount of cannabis. .. The least risky drug seemed to be cannabis and benzodiazepines and Z-drugs."
REFERENCE: Accident Analysis & Prevention; Volume 59, October 2013, Pages 346–356
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457513002315

Cannabis: Summary Report
“Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving.”
REFERENCE: Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs
https://www.dmt-nexus.me/Files/Books/General/Cannabis And Cannabinoids - Pharmacology,Toxicology And Therapy.pdf

Acute cannabis consumption and motor vehicle collision risk
"There is no evidence that consumption of cannabis alone increases the risk of culpability for traffic crash fatalities or injuries for which hospitalization occurs, and may reduce those risks."
REFERENCE: British Medical Journal, 1999; M. Bates and T. Blakely

"But there's nothing wrong with the message that you'd be better off if you weren't getting high because it's true."

OH RLY? Or is that just something you believe because Nancy Reagan would prefer you were addicted to Nicotine? Let me dump a bucket of truth on you too, knee-jerk opinion man.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/84675/10-surprising-health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/12/4625608/california-pot-research-backs.html
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/
(You can find a lot of interesting studies to read but I'm tired of looking them up for you. Write Sanjay Gupta and ask him for a list, he's got one.)

So folks, while I'm sure it's fun to make stuff up and talk out of your ass, it's harmful to the public discourse and evidence of ignorance. Read a study or three before making wild claims with no basis in reality.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 13

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 12:58:53 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
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Fast Reply:

A well-researched, comprehensive read about this subject (and marijuana's 10,000 year history) is Martin A. Lee's "Smoke Signals".

In California, legalizing marijuana (for other than medical use) will go on the ballot in 2016. We are waiting to see how things play out in the legalized states such as CO before putting it to the vote.

People will always grow and use marijuana, legal or not. People will always make and ingest their own alcohol, legal or not. People will always use tobacco, legal or not. Same with other grow-able substances. To think those who wish to use these substances would not because something's 'illegal' is naive and completely unrealistic.

Until the mid 1940s, 40% of commercial pharmaceutical remedies, both Rx and OTC included cannabis in some form, and it's estimated they will again when legalized. Even during the height of the 'drug war' during the last 60 or so years, the US federal government PROVIDED the equivalent of 10 joints a day to select medical patients. Until the end of WWII, US government ENCOURAGED people to grow hemp in their Victory Gardens as part of the war effort: it provided fiber for paper, clothing, rope (the USS 'Constitution' had coils and coils of hemp line aboard), the seeds were loaded with protein and could be eaten, the oil could be used as food and fuel, and the flowers were medicinal.

I think it's important to note that currently many items made from hemp are completely legal (clothing, rope, hemp seed for food consumption, hemp-based soil amendments) but GROWING and POSSESSING the plant is not in many states, even if it's just negligible-THC 'ditch weed' (Ruderalis). The penalties are the same no matter what the THC content. Someone could as easily get popped for Ruderalis as modern mega-high-THC Sativa or Indica strains. If the premise is about intoxication, it makes no sense.

I currently know 3 medical patients with serious, life-threatening illnesses (cancer, kidney failure, and a double-whammy Parkinson's/cancer) who respond positively to nothing Big Pharma has to offer (and capitalize on). Their symptoms ARE controlled by high-CBD cannabis. CBD (short for cannabadiol) is the wonderful stuff that controls seizures, nausea, pain, muscle spasms, nerve function and inflammation (among myriad other symptoms). Unlike THC, it is non-psychoactive. These patients use low-TCH, high-CBD strains for medicine and they don't feel 'high'. It is literally providing quality of life to the rest of their days while there is absolutely NO FURTHER HARM being done to their bodies. That is something Big Pharma cannot claim.

There is stronger and stronger evidence that CBD combats cancer. While I wouldn't stake my life on it (it did not save my sister-in-law who was in late-stage by the time she was diagnosed), it did ease her last 6 months of life sufficiently that she did not need morphine or any other medications until the last 2 weeks of her life. I will always wonder if an earlier diagnosis and subsequent CBD-rich treatment would have saved her.

It can also be quite effective on skin issues. I cured a chronic itchy patch by putting a band-aid soaked in hemp oil on the area for a few days until symptoms subsided. All the heavy steroid ointments Big Pharma had to offer didn't help one whit, but they did thin the skin so much it was compromised and bled at the slightest scratch.

Legalize? Don't legalize? I don't think it's going to make much difference in what the average person does who partakes for recreational and/or medicinal use. The US government could be stupid and stick to its 60 plus-year old guns looking like complete idiots, or they can do the right thing and get on board the gravy train.

Either way, cannabis is here to stay.

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 3/10/2014 1:38:50 PM >

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 14

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 1:10:27 PM

MercTech

Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline

Ok, intended humor sidebar on Marijuana:

Pot under the rebel flag, Oxford MS the home of government grown pot.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/18/government.marijuana.garden/

Back in the 70s they had a field behind a 14 foot fence. Local teens would congregate downwind and throw a torch over the fence to set it afire.
They had to put in a double fence so you couldn't throw anything over.
(this is anecdotal but was commonly mentioned quietly as something people did when going to the Ole Miss campus)

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)

Post #: 15

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 1:14:44 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

I think it's also interesting to note an experience my twice-cancer-survivor band-mate had when he wrote Obama about federally legalizing cannabis. This took place about 4 years ago.

The letter he received back from his inquiry stated that because there were dangers from actually SMOKING marijuana (as would be with smoke from any burned, inhaled substance) our president could not approve it. There was absolutely zip said about other forms of ingestion, such as orally, by vaporization, or in the case of patients unable to swallow, in suppository form.

That's the best you can do, O-man? Really? Now it's a few years later; hopefully he is coming around but I doubt it will happen on his watch. Maybe the next guy/gal will have more balls.

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)

Post #: 16

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 2:06:27 PM

DesideriScuri

Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt
BTW: Hemp can be used for many things, not just rope. Paper products made out of hemp are easier to recycle than those made from wood pulp, and are more durable.

Whoa, Whoa, WHOA! Take it easy now. I grudgingly accept hemp being used for clothing, but other than that, there is to be no taking away from the rope material stream.

_____________________________

What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 17

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 4:21:23 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

FR

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by subfever -- 3/10/2014 4:22:10 PM >

(in reply to MercTech)

Post #: 18

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 5:38:46 PM

MrBukani

Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline

I dread to see a slow reply, how many pages would it take?

First off CBD is psychoactive bullshit me not.
Second I'm getting sick of the medical argument

Yeah it helps yadayadayada... I just want to smoke it to get high period.
Or in the case of CBD rich in hash to get stoned.
When you push it to be a medicine to get it legalized where does it end up?
Pharma maffia, no thanks.
Legalize recreational use and if it helps with fighting cancer great.
But don't lie to get high.
CBD is psychoactive period.

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)

Post #: 19

RE: Why not legalize Marijuana? - 3/10/2014 6:36:19 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

First off CBD is psychoactive bullshit me not.

Lordy, here we go. Would you happen to be SailingBum's sock? Many months later, I'm still waiting for him to provide sources for his (and your) opinion.

I will wait patiently while you cite your sources. In the meantime, you can verify the facts with the following links, several of which are government and university pages:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24204703
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4
http://adai.uw.edu/marijuana/factsheets/cannabinoids.htm
http://www.projectcbd.org/
http://www.clear-uk.org/cbd-the-non-psychoactive-cannabinoid/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid
http://www.leafly.com/news/lifestyle/whats-the-deal-with-these-high-cbd-strains

ETC ETC ETC

Good thing I'm not holding my breath. No doubt I would asphyxiate first.

(in reply to MrBukani)

Post #: 20

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