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Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/10/2014 11:26:21 PM

pg4g

Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
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This is something I've been thinking about recently, and I want to share, and perhaps get different perspectives.

For a long time, I always thought "the sub is truly the stronger of the two". They endure something for their dominant, they are confident enough in their dom to trust their will, believe in them, care about them. But recently I've experienced more of the other side of the kneel, and I have to say, I... feel newfound respect for the responsibility and worries that a dominant may feel.

For example:
- What if I don't make it good enough for the sub?
- What if I seriously injure him/her?
- What if I hurt them in a way they really don't like, and I scar them psychologically?
- What if they won't play with me after this because of something I did?
- What if I hit a hard limit they didn't specify and they really hate me for it?
- What if they charge me with assault, false imprisonment, rape, or something else like that?
- How do I know when I'm pushing too hard?
- How do I know what they really need if they don't know it yet?
- How do I give them what they really deeply need?
- What if I get lost in the emotion of the scene and seriously misjudge something?
- How do I not destroy the trust they show me by letting me do this?

These are worries I felt deeply, and I have to say, for those who are dominant at all times, I have to say I have new found respect.

Do you think that these are issues your dominant does, or should be, worrying about?
Or if you a dominant, do you identify with any of these, and how do you overcome these worries if you do identify with them?

< Message edited by pg4g -- 3/10/2014 11:29:36 PM >

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

Post #: 1

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 2:08:52 AM

AthenaSurrenders

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I think worrying about these things are a sign that you take the responsibility seriously and care about the sub, which is great. I'd be a bit concerned about someone who took the dominant role and didn't have these concerns.

I think my husband would say that he worried about these things in the beginning, but less and less as time goes on. Part of it is becoming accustomed to your role and part of it is building trust with your partner.

He knows me so well by know that there's not much risk that many of those things will happen. He can also trust that I will speak up if something goes wrong, and that I'm sensible enough to think through the risks of what we do, so any consent I give can be trusted.

I didn't expect him to know from day one all my deepest darkest desires and needs. I didn't expect him to be able to give me a mind-blowing experience every time. I didn't expect him to read my mind for any potential triggers (and accepted the risk that there might be triggers that I didn't know about yet). I think one of the biggest mistakes both doms and subs make going into this is that they expect something perfect from the very beginning. We were guilty of being overambitious, too. Once you let go of the idea that the dom must be all-knowing and wise and make no mistakes, and the sub must be a vision of perfect obedience and grace, then you can get on with actually being two human beings working together to forge a successful partnership. Of course you will do something the sub doesn't like. Of course there will be days when things feel kind of blah. As long as you are both on the same team you will be fine. If you care about each other's happiness and you are both willing to work on things, communicate, adapt etc, then you will get there.

There are things you can do to mitigate some of the risks you mention. You can take it slow, starting with milder play and less intrusive rules to get a feel for what you both like best. You can practice your skills, read books, go to demos etc to minimise the risk of play accidents. You can use safewords and scene de-briefs. You can show self restraint by refusing to dive right into a more extreme fantasy even if the sub wants it, until you have built up to it slowly and made sure you can handle it. But you're not superman. You will screw up and so will he. 90% of it comes down to the paragraph above - you are both trying hard and you both really care. For example, if we play with a cane tonight and he misses a stroke and really hurts me in a bad way, I wouldn't stop being his partner or go to the police. Because I know he's trying his best to keep me safe and I know that sometimes accidents happen anyway, and that's a risk I accept. It sucks, but it doesn't have to be catastrophic for the relationship.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 2

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 4:57:14 AM

LadyConstanze

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I found that the activities usually ramp up over time, so you get to know the other person, their triggers and especially health concerns, somebody who just jumps in and starts at the deep end without knowing the other person and their experience level, their health problems and all, that's a person who's an idiot.

You can never rule out everything, but when 2 people have pretty good lines of communication and know each other well, the risks they take are mutual risks.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

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(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 3

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 5:19:29 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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ORIGINAL: pg4g

- What if I don't make it good enough for the sub?

Don't play with subs you don't know well enough to be SURE it will be good. Further, pay attention to the sub's reactions. That someone loved flogging with someone else doesn't mean they'll love it with you.

- What if I seriously injure him/her?

I've never *seriously* injured someone. But I have had unexpected things happen. Chain chafe, ropes burn, flogger tails don't always land where you expect them, nipple clamps scrape a bit too much skin off, etc. All this stuff happens and you should be prepared for how to handle it if it does. That means going for the first aid kit and taking care of things.

There are many things a person shouldn't be doing to another person without some serious training. Whips come to mind. So get the training.

- What if I hurt them in a way they really don't like, and I scar them psychologically?

There are a few things you can do to avoid this, the most important being know them well enough to know they have a fair degree of emotional health.

Don't indulge in psychological play (humiliation, debasement, emotional sadism) until you have a good idea of their negative triggers. Then proceed slowly.

- What if they won't play with me after this because of something I did?

Make sure and have some sort of debriefing conversation after each session. And if they don't want to play b/c of something you did, take it as a lesson learned and spend some time thinking about it and how you can avoid it next time. Dominants get to be failable.

- What if I hit a hard limit they didn't specify and they really hate me for it?

PAY ATTENTION. Learn to know the difference between pain they want and distress.

- What if they charge me with assault, false imprisonment, rape, or something else like that?

Reasons to make good choices in your play mates.

- How do I know when I'm pushing too hard?

You pay attention during a session and debrief after.

- How do I know what they really need if they don't know it yet?

You don't. You slowly explore and figure it out.

- How do I give them what they really deeply need?

You know them well enough to have a good idea what that is.

- What if I get lost in the emotion of the scene and seriously misjudge something?

Good question. Doms get a power rush that can be very heady if you're not used to it. When I'm high like that, I'm very intune with my sub -- we ride the wave together.

If you misjudge, you apologize and work hard to learn from it. Reasons to always go slow and not do things far beyond your skill set.

- How do I not destroy the trust they show me by letting me do this?

By observing the cautions I've outlined above.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 3/11/2014 5:23:14 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 4

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 8:12:27 AM

KnightofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I can't say any of the questions you posted particularly resonated with me. But this is not to say I don't have my own concerns worries or fears. I believe that having worries, concerns or fears are part of the condition of a caring person. However, some people are going to be paralyzed by these kinds of questions and others are going to be motivated by them. I choose the latter to the former.

I put some intense pressure on myself to improve me in all areas of my life. The person I was last year is not the person that is here today. Heck sometimes the person that was here last week is not here today. This self improvement has been a huge in allowing me to be better for my girls and they know it.

We often hear about things S-types are doing to be better, grow or change in service of their D-types. But not so much on the D-types. I wonder why that is.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 5

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 8:34:02 AM

sexyred1

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Joined: 8/9/2007
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It's good to be concerned.

Most important is to respect what a sub tells you, before, during and after.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 6

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 8:39:40 AM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

I never really have those fears to be honest because I start with the familiar, but then I've never broken skin like some other Dommes I know.
The thing I think most subs take for granted is the PHYSICAL ENERGY and FORCE that goes into Domming, depending on the Domme. The only one exerting large amounts of energy, though the sub is "enduring" is the Domme. And I don't agree the sub is necessarily the stronger of the two, not at all.

quote:

KnightofMists
We often hear about things S-types are doing to be better, grow or change in service of their D-types. But not so much on the D-types. I wonder why that is.

This exactly.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/11/2014 8:44:44 AM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 7

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 5:40:24 PM

fucktoyprincess

Posts: 2337
Status: offline

Regardless of whether other dominants are this introspective, I actually think it is good that you are asking yourself these questions, because the questions reflect your own personal concerns. I think others have outlined how you can handle these concerns in such a way to enable safe play. Taking things slowly to start and communicating with your partner as fully as you need for each of you to feel comfortable to actually play is never a bad thing (even between experienced people). These two things alone will address many of your concerns. You can't play with someone you don't trust (that is not just a rule for submissives but for all people in the BDSM world). Establishing trust between two people requires being able to assure yourself that these questions you raise have been addressed in one way or another (explicitly or implicitly).

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 8

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 6:20:50 PM

StrongSpirit

Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline

- What if I don't make it good enough for the sub?
It's not your responsibility to ensure that the sub has fun - that's the sub's responsibility. All you have to is give the sub your best effort. If the sub doesn't think it's good enough the sub can leave.

- What if I seriously injure him/her?
What if you drive drunk? Or drive sober and crash a car? In sex, like real life, don't do anything you are not 100% sure is safe.

- What if I hurt them in a way they really don't like, and I scar them psychologically?

Use a safe word. Also, forget about 'surprises'. Get to know them before you push their buttons. Surprises sounds so cool, but it is NOT worth it.

- What if they won't play with me after this because of something I did?

Then you play with someone else. Learn from your failures.

- What if I hit a hard limit they didn't specify and they really hate me for it?

Say you are sorry and that you understand if they don't want to play with you again. See answers 1,2, and 3.

- What if they charge me with assault, false imprisonment, rape, or something else like that?

Hire a lawyer. But try not to get in that position by following answers 1,2,3, above. Again, NO SURPRISES. The very fact that you are asking these questions shows that to you, surprises are not worth the risk.

- How do I know when I'm pushing too hard?

When the sub says their safeword.

- How do I know what they really need if they don't know it yet?

If they don't konw it, then move slowly with no surprises.

- How do I give them what they really deeply need?

Talk to them. A lot.
Don't be afraid to ask any question.

- What if I get lost in the emotion of the scene and seriously misjudge something?
If you are not in control, then who will be? If you are lost in the emotion, then stop playing.

- How do I not destroy the trust they show me by letting me do this?
Use safe words, no surprises, communicate and try your best.

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 9

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 7:07:49 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

- What if I don't make it good enough for the sub?
- What if I seriously injure him/her?
- What if I hurt them in a way they really don't like, and I scar them psychologically?
- What if they won't play with me after this because of something I did?
- What if I hit a hard limit they didn't specify and they really hate me for it?
- What if they charge me with assault, false imprisonment, rape, or something else like that?
- How do I know when I'm pushing too hard?
- How do I know what they really need if they don't know it yet?
- How do I give them what they really deeply need?
- What if I get lost in the emotion of the scene and seriously misjudge something?
- How do I not destroy the trust they show me by letting me do this?

I'm not Master but I'm guessing he doesn't worry about these things with us. We've been together over 8 years now and we took our time and got to know one another. Neither one of us played casually with each other. We built upon a relationship. We did the old fashioned dating and getting to know one another. Plus we're M/s and not D/s or Top/bottom so our situation is going to be radically different from others who casually play/fuck or identify as Dom/submissive.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 10

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 7:20:15 PM

shiftyw

Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline

My man worried about these things.
I introduced him to kink.
We've been together 4 years now and I doubt he worries very much anymore.

He occasionally still worries about some stuff, but is knowledgeable and more experienced now so some of that has faded. I can tell he ramps up slowly to new things though- if only to build his own confidence (I certainly wouldn't mind if he moved faster, but I let him pick the pace usually).

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 11

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 8:03:07 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

- What if I don't make it good enough for the sub?
It's not your responsibility to ensure that the sub has fun - that's the sub's responsibility. All you have to is give the sub your best effort. If the sub doesn't think it's good enough the sub can leave.

- What if I seriously injure him/her?
What if you drive drunk? Or drive sober and crash a car? In sex, like real life, don't do anything you are not 100% sure is safe.

- What if I hurt them in a way they really don't like, and I scar them psychologically?

Use a safe word. Also, forget about 'surprises'. Get to know them before you push their buttons. Surprises sounds so cool, but it is NOT worth it.

- What if they won't play with me after this because of something I did?

Then you play with someone else. Learn from your failures.

- What if I hit a hard limit they didn't specify and they really hate me for it?

Say you are sorry and that you understand if they don't want to play with you again. See answers 1,2, and 3.

- What if they charge me with assault, false imprisonment, rape, or something else like that?

Hire a lawyer. But try not to get in that position by following answers 1,2,3, above. Again, NO SURPRISES. The very fact that you are asking these questions shows that to you, surprises are not worth the risk.

- How do I know when I'm pushing too hard?

When the sub says their safeword.

- How do I know what they really need if they don't know it yet?

If they don't konw it, then move slowly with no surprises.

- How do I give them what they really deeply need?

Talk to them. A lot.
Don't be afraid to ask any question.

- What if I get lost in the emotion of the scene and seriously misjudge something?
If you are not in control, then who will be? If you are lost in the emotion, then stop playing.

- How do I not destroy the trust they show me by letting me do this?
Use safe words, no surprises, communicate and try your best.

I see StrongSpirit's name as "KindredSpirit". My subs of the past LOVE me, so I have the confidence to not doubt myself, my actions and motives as a Domme. It's weird for anyone to second guess themselves in the midst of play at least to me. And again, individual opinion. Unless of course this person doesn't have eyes or ears or perhaps is daft, LOL. A newbie shouldn't be afraid to ask questions but my first domming session ever included multiple clothespins (he looked like a clothespin porcupine), hogtying and a carrot because it was his birthday. He loved it. My goal is always subspace, they have to enjoy it to get there.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to StrongSpirit)

Post #: 12

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 9:21:14 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pg4g

This is something I've been thinking about recently, and I want to share, and perhaps get different perspectives.

For a long time, I always thought "the sub is truly the stronger of the two". They endure something for their dominant, they are confident enough in their dom to trust their will, believe in them, care about them. But recently I've experienced more of the other side of the kneel, and I have to say, I... feel newfound respect for the responsibility and worries that a dominant may feel.

For example:
- What if I don't make it good enough for the sub?
- What if I seriously injure him/her?
- What if I hurt them in a way they really don't like, and I scar them psychologically?
- What if they won't play with me after this because of something I did?
- What if I hit a hard limit they didn't specify and they really hate me for it?
- What if they charge me with assault, false imprisonment, rape, or something else like that?
- How do I know when I'm pushing too hard?
- How do I know what they really need if they don't know it yet?
- How do I give them what they really deeply need?
- What if I get lost in the emotion of the scene and seriously misjudge something?
- How do I not destroy the trust they show me by letting me do this?

These are worries I felt deeply, and I have to say, for those who are dominant at all times, I have to say I have new found respect.

Do you think that these are issues your dominant does, or should be, worrying about?
Or if you a dominant, do you identify with any of these, and how do you overcome these worries if you do identify with them?

And how about that since I'm nearly 60 - what if I have a heart attack after tying her up to my usual "no chance of escape" standard?

Thing is I've always been what vanillas might disdainfully refer to as a "control freak" - without being some overtly selfish nazi about it. So being in charge and taking responsibility etc is what I do rather than be something to get hung up on.

Yeah, I consider such things (as anyone with responsibilities should) but I don't let them control me to a point of not living my life how I want. And that means occasionally taking chances like anyone else....

Btw, never had any "ticker" or major health scares so I don't even consider bondage to be taking a chance. But it's still the first thing that came to mind from your OP as I'd be mortified to think of leaving my girl to a fate like that. And that's the chance a sub takes....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 13

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/11/2014 10:16:42 PM

pg4g

Posts: 296
Joined: 12/31/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Thanks all,

I agree with most of what you've all written, and they were the approaches I took. I certainly didn't let the concerns control me. I made decisions, discussed with the partner, and went for it. But it did enlighten me to responsibility, risks that must inevitably be taken to do this, and I felt it quite enlightening.

Not to mention it was awesome as!

_____________________________

Switching: the best of both worlds.

It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. - Rocky Balboa

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 14

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/12/2014 9:27:42 AM

FieryOpal

Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Regarding Strength, this would apply to both sides of the kneel ... and everything in between:

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 15

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/12/2014 9:41:08 AM

NuevaVida

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Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

Your list of concerns really has to do with play, which is cool. I think the things the Mister mostly concerns himself with, are, is he leading this relationship in the right direction? Are we both thriving? Is he providing what and how he thinks he should? Is he hearing me? Are we healthy?

I'm sure he is careful in play, and I know he pays close attention. God knows I'm vocal enough when something hurts haha.

I do not believe there is a "stronger of the two" here. We both have strengths. We both have weaknesses. We balance each other.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to pg4g)

Post #: 16

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/12/2014 9:41:13 AM

Greta75

Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline

I feel like you are already a better dom just pondering about these stuffs. There are many doms who are still thinking, they order, sub obey, that's it! And it's black and white. Either they do it or they walk. So they don't have worries such as yours.

(in reply to FieryOpal)

Post #: 17

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/12/2014 1:17:33 PM

lovethyself

Posts: 1818
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline

FR,

Pg4g, a lot of your questions really ring a bell with me. I'll be topping my first full scene ever on Friday, and most of those questions have gone through my mind at some point this week (I asked her on Monday). My goal, and the thing that helps me combat some of my nerves, is for her to enjoy herself. That's it. We've practiced together before (it's a rope scene), and we've touched the energy that we can raise together at a workshop and open practices, so I know a bit of how to read her reactions.

To touch on some of your questions, I mitigate risk by learning about what I'm doing, and making sure I have whatever I need for if things go wrong. Part of my job is to spot potential hazards, so I'm usually prepared for most eventualities. I also make sure that my partner is aware of the risks as well (even as a bottom, I do this).

If they are going to hold a mistake against me, whether that mistake led to them simply not enjoying themselves, or led to them finding a new hard limit or trigger they weren't aware of, I obviously misjudged them. I try to associate with people that are realistic in their expectations of both others and themselves. I would hope that instead of judging me on having hit an accidental trigger, they judge me on how I handle the situation once it has gone pear shaped.

I (hopefully) keep their trust by continually not breaking it. The bigger trusts come with time, and consistency.

All of my play is oriented towards enjoyment during the scene (even when it's pain), so I can't really speak to your questions surrounding potential assult charges or hidden hard limits. It's hard to get lost in the emotion, if my emotion is to make sure she's enjoying herself. My driving force keeps me focused on her reactions and her enjoyment.

I know you and your partner play in areas that I don't, so some of my experience (or lack) will have little bearing on your situation. I would caution you when you start looking for what he really needs that he doesn't know he needs. I've had experiences that, when I reflect on them, I can admit that painful as it was, it was something that I needed. However, at the time I was going through those necessary things, I was not aware of needing it, and lashed out at those trying to help me. I also probably took longer to process it because I wasn't ready for it. If you think your guy needs something, talk to him about it. Let the idea percolate in his mind for a while and see if it takes root. Don't try to force it on him unless that is his choice.

Good on you for asking yourself these things. I tend to question everything, sometimes just for the sake of understanding it better. I'm not sure I'd want to bottom to someone that didn't question things to some extent. That to me shows that they haven't thought things all the way through.

ETA: spelling

< Message edited by lovethyself -- 3/12/2014 1:21:28 PM >

(in reply to Greta75)

Post #: 18

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/12/2014 1:27:16 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I'm confused because all your examples are about play. Not about making life decisions.

When he hit a trigger in play, we went back to beginning play that we knew would be good for both of us. And took several months to move back up to the harder stuff.

But the worst thing he ever did, imo, was to forbid me from taking the car into the shop. I spent two years without working a c because he believed he could eventually fix it. Trust me, this was serious unpleasantness in August when it gets up to 105F with 90% humidity. We did eventually take it in to the shop for something else and they discovered the problem then.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to lovethyself)

Post #: 19

RE: Respecting Dominant Responsibility - 3/12/2014 1:43:44 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Your list of concerns really has to do with play, which is cool. I think the things the Mister mostly concerns himself with, are, is he leading this relationship in the right direction? Are we both thriving? Is he providing what and how he thinks he should? Is he hearing me? Are we healthy?

I'm sure he is careful in play, and I know he pays close attention. God knows I'm vocal enough when something hurts haha.

I do not believe there is a "stronger of the two" here. We both have strengths. We both have weaknesses. We balance each other.

I agree with Nueva, THIS definitely would be my primary concern. Growing together as D/s. But then I traditionally like being devoted to my sub/subs and vice versa.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 20

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