Subspace...

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shiftyw -> Subspace... (3/11/2014 8:14:34 PM)
I've never achieved anything close to "subspace". I feel kinda weird and insecure about it sometimes. Someone over in another thread said the goal is always to get the sub to subspace- but I'm not sure I can achieve it. I almost feel like I can't let go enough or something. Anyways, I have some questions: Do you ALWAYS get there? As a Dom-or does your Dom- aim for that everytime? Do you feel pressured to achieve it? Am I just not playing hard enough to achieve it?

Lynnxz -> RE: Subspace... (3/11/2014 8:37:51 PM)
Everyone's different. My personal definition of subspace is achieved on rare occasions, usually within the context of public play, with heavy impact. He doesn't always strive for it, because the aftermath is a great deal of bruising, and I'd like to avoid permanent damage and acidosis or something. Some days, I can't get into the mindset at all, and it's more of, "Fuck no, not today, grumpy as hell, nope. Hit me and I'll shove you out the window." I suspect that stressing out about subspace would actually prevent you from actually attaining it, just because you are focusing on something other than what is happening in the moment. I wouldn't worry about it, if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, you had fun anyway.

littlewonder -> RE: Subspace... (3/11/2014 8:42:48 PM)
quote: Do you ALWAYS get there? No. Sometimes I'm too stressed from everyday stuff or just not in the mood or it just isn't working for me. Other times he won't allow me to reach subspace. Sometimes he wants me all there in the moment, feeling every single thing he does or doesn't do to me. quote: As a Dom-or does your Dom- aim for that everytime? No. See above. quote: Do you feel pressured to achieve it? No. Never. If I do, great. If I don't, that's fine too. It's not normally the purpose of our play. quote: Am I just not playing hard enough to achieve it? I have no idea. Some people say they can't get into subspace for whatever reason. It could be they are just not cut out for it. Could be they are not with the right person. Could be they can't let go. Could be they are too high strung. Could be the play isn't the type that sends them into subspace. That's something only you can figure out for yourself. No one else can really answer that for you.

GoddessManko -> RE: Subspace... (3/11/2014 8:55:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shiftyw I've never achieved anything close to "subspace". I feel kinda weird and insecure about it sometimes. Someone over in another thread said the goal is always to get the sub to subspace- but I'm not sure I can achieve it. I almost feel like I can't let go enough or something. Anyways, I have some questions: Do you ALWAYS get there? As a Dom-or does your Dom- aim for that everytime? Do you feel pressured to achieve it? Am I just not playing hard enough to achieve it? Just as the earlier posters said, every sub is different. What I define as subspace is very hard to describe. I have for instance seen a sub crumble to the floor after only 15 mins of light flogging with a bullwhip as opposed to another achieving it through use of multiple variations of play simultaneously. I recognize subspace from a sort of glazed look a sub gets in his/her eyes with the right amount of pushing the envelope. There are many reasons subspace might not be attained: 1: As stated, the sub isn't in the "mood", for me, I prefer subs who are open to 24/7 TPE and are very compliant so that's never an issue. 2: The right amount of force isn't used. 3: A Hesitant Dom (This is extremely important). I can have someone tied up and completely immobile in seconds. Play time is seamless, I transition from one instrument to the other with focus on getting certain reactions from my sub and I focus on not doing one particular thing for too long. Most of my subs have 2 or three different things going on at the same time, minimum so there are different sensations and you can gauge reactions depending on the play. A hesitant Dom in my mind would not be conducive to something like this because all along the way he would be second guessing himself and that is easily recognizable by a sub and it takes away from the "confident" nature of a Dom. (If this is the case and one desires subspace, some kind of guide or mentorship should help as opposed to the sub requesting it) 4: The right type of play isn't being used. Some people may have kinks they have yet to discover and there's so many variations of play that can be used that it's all about figuring out what works and what doesn't as far as getting the reaction you want out of a sub. 5: A sub that directs the scene in any way. 6: A sub being unable to submerge completely into the play, I find that sensory deprivation helps with that. 7: The Dom not pushing the envelope, mixing it up and getting creative. Sometimes it's all about the element of surprise. 8:Planning: I usually have to think up what I'm going to do, I dislike repetition so sometimes it does take a bit of foresight by the Dom. I hope that answers your questions. Generally my sessions with my own subs last about 2 hours of active play (not counting caging etc) which is a relatively long time and mostly why I try not to have more than one or two so I can focus my attention on them appropriately. For me subspace is always the goal, doesn't mean it happens every time but it's happened with every sub. Edited for typos.

catize -> RE: Subspace... (3/11/2014 8:56:36 PM)
Some d/ types don't want their s/ type to go there. I found it is simply a matter of relaxation, accepting the pain rather than tensing against it. Bottom line (pun sorta intended) it isn't a competition and if ya never get there, who cares?

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Subspace... (3/11/2014 9:29:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko 6: A sub being unable to submerge completely into the play, I find that sensory deprivation helps with that. I've often found this to be the case. The partner finds it difficult or impossible to completely relax physically and mentally. Sometimes all it takes is blindfolding the person and using foam earplugs (no sound) or in-ear noise-cancelling headphones with some soft tonal music. Make sure your partner can hear you if you need to ask a question or give an instruction. Certain yogic practices can achieve the 'space' effect. If you're familiar with them, they would piggy-back nicely in your scenes.

pg4g -> RE: Subspace... (3/11/2014 10:46:03 PM)
I don't think I've ever experienced subspace. The closest I've come to others' definitions is during intense, painful sex. I fight it, and my body is tense and the pain is uncomfortable, and it gets worse and worse and then... my mind snaps and for some unknown reason my mind seems to drop into a madly weird submissive zone, where I actually want to be his and used and ripped to pieces and I don't care. The pain is numb sensation and my body just seems to go limp and endure it and it's... a joyful numbness of pure "I'm his" time. This is really weird for me. I've never experienced this from pain play - just from intense sex - so it doesn't seem to fit with what I've heard about subspace.

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 12:06:23 AM)
^^^Whatever brings that on, sounds like a pretty great version of subspace to me. [8D]

FieryOpal -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 12:32:49 AM)
^What MistressDarkArt said...^ quote: ORIGINAL: pg4g I don't think I've ever experienced subspace. The closest I've come to others' definitions is during intense, painful sex. I fight it, and my body is tense and the pain is uncomfortable, and it gets worse and worse and then... my mind snaps and for some unknown reason my mind seems to drop into a madly weird submissive zone, where I actually want to be his and used and ripped to pieces and I don't care. The pain is numb sensation and my body just seems to go limp and endure it and it's... a joyful numbness of pure "I'm his" time. This is really weird for me. I've never experienced this from pain play - just from intense sex - so it doesn't seem to fit with what I've heard about subspace. There are all different kinds of ways to experience a breakthrough. Relish and savor each one. Whether you technically reach a state of subspace doesn't really matter. This is why I enjoy edging so much. There are times (for me) when climaxing can be anti-climactic. Enjoying the journey can be just as, if not more than, gratifying as reaching the destination.

pg4g -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 3:11:40 AM)
Yeah, that headspace is very weird for me. Everything else in me is aggressive and resistant... that really threw me the first time I experienced it. So to answer the questions then: Do you ALWAYS get there? No. Not during pain-based activities. Just occasionally, during intense, painful sex. As a Dom-or does your Dom- aim for that every time? Absolutely not. It just happens. Do you feel pressured to achieve it? No. In fact for me I feel a little ambivalent about being that happily submissive. It's very unlike me. Am I just not playing hard enough to achieve it? Well, obviously from the few messages above, I had no idea if what I experienced was that, or what was supposed to trigger it [;)][:D]. So I'm gonna be blatantly honest: I have no idea how to make you achieve it, if you can, or if you already have and don't know it. Just have fun, and enjoy what you do.

GoddessManko -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 6:52:24 AM)
Subspace always just happens, but usually only when the Dom knows how to get the sub there, I should add. The 8 steps I listed are a great way to start IF you are. :) I would describe it as a form of submissive "euphoria".

shiftyw -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 8:53:21 AM)
Thanks everyone... to clarify- none of my previous tops or doms have pressured me, I feel way more pressured by my own self and insecurities, like I'm not doing enough to get there. I'm glad its not the "point" of play to so many of you. I actually really think that ear plugs would really help, and its something I've wanted to do for a while- just haven't gotten around to it. I mean, I'm also pretty terrified to let go emotionally sometimes, and thats something I've experienced in therapy and meditation and yoga. My last therapist pointed out how much I avoid feeling things sometimes. So I expect that is related.

CatharsisKentUK -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 8:58:08 AM)
Why does this poxy forum swallow up half my replies? Why does it prefer the long replies? [:@] I'll try to re-type one later.

FelineRanger -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 9:17:27 AM)
As a volunteer for my local play party, I frequently hear about subspace. After getting the image of Nichelle Nichols out of my head, I noticed that the ones who talk about it most often are in committed relationships or, at the very least, are playing with people they have known for a very long time. So I think getting into subspace requires being able to relax into the scene because you know your play partner that well.

DesFIP -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 1:48:02 PM)
The Man rarely permits me to go there. He wants a partner who is present in the moment not a rag doll who checked out. So no, it isn't always the purpose of play. However, for me to go there involves bondage, some sens dep, and intense but not painful stimulation. I need to just feel and have my brain shut off.

CatharsisKentUK -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 6:32:35 PM)
Do you ALWAYS get there? Nope. That's more to do with the fact that being zoned out in subspace is quite a self-indulgent thing though and people I play with are not the types to generally put my enjoyment first. When I reach subspace I'm not capable of things like following basic instructions or contributing to the scene in any way whatsoever and that's not necessarily fun for D types. Once I get there I am incapable of coherent thought and therefore not remotely capable of being responsible for my safety or safewording etc. I become completely the dominant's responsibility. As a Dom-or does your Dom- aim for that everytime? Again, no. With my ex, it wasn't something he would directly aim for, with a lot of build up and expectation. He'd get me warmed up and kind of spring it on me by changing tack. Do you feel pressured to achieve it? For me, subspace is like a man's erection. Any pressure or expectation and it will vanish without a trace. I think you're absolutely right that your difficulty in letting go is keeping you from getting there. Obviously it requires implicit trust in your partner. The rest of the impediments, if there are any, lie in technique and inside your own head. Am I just not playing hard enough to achieve it? Pass. For me it requires a specific combination of things. First of all, relentless impact play and sexual stimulation that changes tack too often for me to be able to cum. The D type needs to be non-verbal, so that I'm not trying to assimilate what's being said to me. Bondage is good, anything that allows you not to be conscious of your body or required to hold a position. Sensory deprivation is also helpful. For me it requires a gradual escalation of sensation, while relinquishing cognitive load completely. This means no thinking about anything at all, just emptying your mind and letting your body take over. I don't find that being anxious or adrenaline fuelled is helpful. Anxiety in this context is just a very bad thing. So this requires that you can take the impact play etc without mentally fighting against it. You have to become completely accepting. When it hits, it's kind of like hitting the wall when working out or running but instead of crashing through it, you just give yourself up to sensory overload. Afterwards I can get teary and clingy. I can even be disoriented and confused. It requires an aftercare assessment on the part of the dominant. Obviously, this is just my experience and I can only speak for me.

FeralFoxy -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 6:46:09 PM)
I can count on one hand the number of times I have reached subspace, and been in active bdsm relationships for about ten years (off and on). My mind just doesn't seem to work that way. I have disappointed people and been disappointed, but eventually learned to let it go and stop comparing my experience to what others experience, or tell me I should be experiencing. If everyone is happy, who cares how they get there?

LadyPact -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 8:31:47 PM)
Oh My gosh! Welcome back!

FeralFoxy -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 8:33:25 PM)
Thanks. [:D] Glad to be back.

LadyPact -> RE: Subspace... (3/12/2014 9:00:29 PM)
Oh, crud, OP. I'm sorry for not answering the original. My apologies. Do you ALWAYS get there? (Understand that I'm answering from the top side.) Always? No. I'm pretty endorphin blessed and I want other folks to feel that, too. I'm rather good at getting other folks there. As a Dom-or does your Dom- aim for that everytime? I have to admit, I kind of do. I want people to have that kind of fun. Do you feel pressured to achieve it? I think most s-types/bottoms do. Much like the same way that folks feel there has to be an orgasm via sex. From the top side, that isn't how it is though. Am I just not playing hard enough to achieve it? No. That's not it. That's not it at all....... I don't know if you'll get this. I'll try to explain it. I'm a sadist. I am blessed with the best masochist walking this planet. For some time, he's been ill. His body isn't back to where he was on the pain scale. After a couple of days having him here, I went another way playing with him. Somehow, we pulled off this amazing energy transfer scene that took us both soaring in ways that I can't describe. Literally the stuff that makes an s-type say he'd crawl a mile through broken glass for Me just to curl up at My feet. (His words.) There was no pain. There was no hard. It was just us and it was probably the best scene I've ever had..... If we'd have set ourselves up to plan that kind of thing, it would have never happened. I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't set yourself up. Just let things happen naturally.

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