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Control - 3/12/2014 10:13:57 AM   
shadowborn61


Posts: 143
Joined: 11/5/2013
Status: offline 		This is a question about control and what is too much.
Recently a submissive woman i am very good friends with started an online relationship with a male Dominant from Canada (she lives here in Iowa) and almost immediately he started controlling every aspect of her daily life.
Now i know some want this but this woman was rebounding from a bad relationship with a Dom who would ignore her without reason or any contact for long periods of time. The man was in all other respects a fantastic Dominant he just couldn't seem to understand that this woman needs regular contact and so she ended it.
The new Dom started out by having her install a security camera in her bedroom that he could access over the net he then told her that she had to text him every hour on the hour until he gave her permission to sleep. She had to clear it with him to be out of her room for any reason even to go out to re apply for her food stamps. The only way she could spend any time with her son was if he went to her room so the Dom could "keep an eye on her".
She was isolated from friends and family and not allowed to attend local munches even if wearing his collar.
He had no trust for her at all even though she had never done a thing to deserve his mistrust.
I know this because we live together and she was absolutely forbidden to talk to me for any reason even though we were not having a sexual relationship at that time.
He said it was because of his trust issues that he had been lied to and hurt before.
I watched my friends eyes become sad like what you see when a dog has been kicked too many times expects to be kicked again at any moment. Her shoulders once thrown back with pride and confidence stooped and her once light bouncy steps leaden and shuffling. It was breaking my heart but there was nothing i could do it was her choice to give that level of control.
The few times i did actually get to speak to her i voiced my concerns and told her she deserved to be happy and i didn't think she was.
I am not sure what was the final straw but yesterday she ended it with him and my lord the transformation that took place. She is not 100% back to her old self but she is well on the way and i hope a little more cautious about how much control she is willing to give someone in the future.
I can understand a Dominant wanting a certain level of control and even taking it to the extreme if that is what the submissive wants but from all i have read a Dominants foremost concern should be the well being of that submissive.
Am i wrong?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 10:18:35 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		The issue here is not him being too controlling but her having bad boundaries (and quite likely sub-frenzy.)

I always advise people to not cyber-submit until they have met the Dom in person, established compatibility, and agreed to submit.

(in reply to shadowborn61)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 10:23:09 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

from all i have read a Dominants foremost concern should be the well being of that submissive.


She wasn't his submissive, she was cyber pussy. Women should not get involved with men who want all of the rewards of dominance and none of the responsibilities, and they will find this a lot with online-only relationships.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 10:34:57 AM   
sxymdgirl


Posts: 11
Joined: 3/3/2007
Status: offline 		No you are not wrong, at least in my opinion. Your friend desperately wanted to have attention from a Dominant, to be controlled and told what to do. However, this 'dominant' took it extremely too far. He cared nothing about your friend, in my opinion; he only cared that he was in charge of her in every aspect. That's it.

A true dominant is one who takes the time to learn about their sub and will make sure that they are cared for properly in every aspect. Neither of them knew anything about the other and the flags were going off as soon as this 'dominant' told her to put a camera in her room so he can monitor her at all times.

At least your friend realized this danger and ended it before something extremely bad happened. It was bad enough with what you mentioned but who knows how worse it could have become.

(in reply to shadowborn61)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 10:49:56 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		I agree with Kalikshama. Sounds like she made some poor choices. I can only imagine if a partner tried to restrict me interacting with my child under pretty much any circumstance... Let alone a new partner in an online relationship. The last sound they'd hear would be my laughing as I disconnected skype.

My rule of thumb is not to give someone more power than they have responsibility.

Example: My husband decides to give me orders that prevent me buying food and taking care of the kids - guess who's going to be doing that instead? His orders cause me to lose my job, well then he has to support us both financially. He treats me badly and makes me sad all the time - It'll hurt him too because he loves me. He's not likely to make flippant decisions because his wellbeing is tied up with mine.

There are exceptions, and there are some great guys out there who could be totally trusted to only make decisions in a sub's best interest even if they had nothing invested. But it's a good starting point to weed out those who are unrealistic, clueless or abusive. Sounds like this guy was thinking with the little head. In real life subs come with responsibilities and personalities which have to be accounted for or this happens.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 11:02:47 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		It wasn't the control that was the issue, it was the lack of trust.

Anyone who thinks controlling everyone's tiniest move can replace trust is an idiot. And I agree, your friend chose this man. SO whatever happened is not all his fault.

She will continue to choose losers who hurt her until she figures this out for herself.

_____________________________



(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 1:10:57 PM   
anniezz338


Posts: 1183
Joined: 8/17/2010
Status: offline 		The control you posted was way over the top. When it starts to interfer with normal life routines, that's just crazy stuff.

Other than that, how much control is decided by the dom and the sub.


< Message edited by anniezz338 -- 3/12/2014 1:19:01 PM >

_____________________________

I had become insane, with horrific lapses of sanity. Edgar Allen Poe

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 1:16:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The problem was that she was so desperate for attention that she got involved in a bad relationship.
Desperation is never healthy or attractive.

I suggest she gets some help developing healthy boundaries, and learning to be happy alone rather than willing to get involved with the first guy who comes along.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to anniezz338)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 2:52:35 PM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		This is what it is. Obviously she can do what she wants, but it sounds unwise.
1. Only do things with people you have met and have a real relationship with ideally
2. Ideally have a proper relationship too with his responsibilities to her and hers to him. This is all a bit one sided. His responsibility to her is to care and look after her. Restricting her relationship with her child is plain wrong and does not help her be a better mother and keeping her in her room is not going to help her get a job, get off food stamps be a better person.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

from all i have read a Dominants foremost concern should be the well being of that submissive.


She wasn't his submissive, she was cyber pussy. Women should not get involved with men who want all of the rewards of dominance and none of the responsibilities, and they will find this a lot with online-only relationships.


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 3:05:20 PM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline 		I don't trust one side only for the simple fact that it's only one side. I admit though that hearing how one side was all bad and the other side was all innocent does make my crap-o-meter spike, whether or not that's fair is subjective.

Your friend should have known better when told to purchase a whole security system. That in and of itself should have been recognized as an excessive and unnecessary expense in the form of a massive red flag. My very first question would be, what did you tell your friend when they talked about this expense? What advice did you give?

_____________________________

There is nothing worse than being right. Instead of being right, then, try to be open. It is more difficult, and more rewarding.


(in reply to ClassAct2006)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 3:11:47 PM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		I don't know either of them so I can not say who was really wrong here and we are not hearing her side of the story or his...just a third person's version


Some people enjoy this type of control and obviously your friend thought she would like this type of control as she agreed to it and installed a security camera. For me personally....I would be totally opposed to calling someone every hour on the hour because I can't I work and that would put me in jeopardy of losing my job and it would be a total no go if I had some life obligation like a child or reapplying for food stamps and had to ask consent to do take care of them. THOSE things would happen with or without consent of some guy I met on the internet. It's a no go in my house...if one of my grown children need me although I will tell him I am going I would not ask consent because it's already established that I would and the same goes for going to work or any of the other life obligations I need to tend to. For me, if any man admitted he had that many trust issues I would have thanked him for his interest and moved on. But it sounds like both of them were needy....from what I read he needed her constant attention and she craved his needing it.

quote:

Dominants foremost concern should be the well being of that submissive
I think people should be concerned about their partner's well being whether they are Dom/sub or vanilla. Dom's are not super hero's though and can't be there at every moment...so sometimes you need to be concerned for your own well being. It sounds like your friend was not concerned for her own well being and that my friend is most important. She doesn't sound all that concerned about her son's well being either....not sure how old he is...but what if he got hurt or was choking or if you were choking...would she have left the room without consent then?


Bottom line is I hope your friend learns something from all of this...like being submissive does not mean tossing your good sense out the window. Also one of the biggest things I learned over the years....is simply put and how I put it to my own partner when we embarked on our journey together...I will do whatever you asked with in reason.


(in reply to shadowborn61)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 4:42:43 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shadowborn61

This is a question about control and what is too much.
Recently a submissive woman i am very good friends with started an online relationship with a male Dominant from Canada (she lives here in Iowa) and almost immediately he started controlling every aspect of her daily life.
Now i know some want this but this woman was rebounding from a bad relationship with a Dom who would ignore her without reason or any contact for long periods of time. The man was in all other respects a fantastic Dominant he just couldn't seem to understand that this woman needs regular contact and so she ended it.
The new Dom started out by having her install a security camera in her bedroom that he could access over the net he then told her that she had to text him every hour on the hour until he gave her permission to sleep. She had to clear it with him to be out of her room for any reason even to go out to re apply for her food stamps. The only way she could spend any time with her son was if he went to her room so the Dom could "keep an eye on her".
She was isolated from friends and family and not allowed to attend local munches even if wearing his collar.
He had no trust for her at all even though she had never done a thing to deserve his mistrust.
I know this because we live together and she was absolutely forbidden to talk to me for any reason even though we were not having a sexual relationship at that time.
He said it was because of his trust issues that he had been lied to and hurt before.
I watched my friends eyes become sad like what you see when a dog has been kicked too many times expects to be kicked again at any moment. Her shoulders once thrown back with pride and confidence stooped and her once light bouncy steps leaden and shuffling. It was breaking my heart but there was nothing i could do it was her choice to give that level of control.
The few times i did actually get to speak to her i voiced my concerns and told her she deserved to be happy and i didn't think she was.
I am not sure what was the final straw but yesterday she ended it with him and my lord the transformation that took place. She is not 100% back to her old self but she is well on the way and i hope a little more cautious about how much control she is willing to give someone in the future.
I can understand a Dominant wanting a certain level of control and even taking it to the extreme if that is what the submissive wants but from all i have read a Dominants foremost concern should be the well being of that submissive.
Am i wrong?


He sounds creepy and psychotic. Subs are human beings, you can't isolate a human being for days and days on end, especially remotely for your amusement. This story reminds me the protagonist of Saw. THIS IS AN EXTREMELY UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.
At the same time, involve yourself and help her only as much as she will allow in her recovery of what seems like a man breaking her very spirit, terrible. Sorry to hear this.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shadowborn61)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 4:43:54 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

It wasn't the control that was the issue, it was the lack of trust.

Anyone who thinks controlling everyone's tiniest move can replace trust is an idiot. And I agree, your friend chose this man. SO whatever happened is not all his fault.

She will continue to choose losers who hurt her until she figures this out for herself.


This I so agree with and you should REALLY ponder this point specific.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 5:41:19 PM   
shadowborn61


Posts: 143
Joined: 11/5/2013
Status: offline 		First off thank you all for taking the time to answer my post there was a lot of good advice.

Well we have talked since this thread was started and she is going to start going to munches and local get together's for the community to make some friends and get to know people and just take things a lot slower.
The whole idea of the security camera was to use it like a web cam for the times when they were to play and giving him control of it she says seemed like a fun idea at the time but then it got way out of control, Yes it was an investment she didn't need to make but the camera can be used as intended so that we can see if anyone is messing around the cars as there has been an increase in car break ins since the weather is starting to warm up. Her car is usually in the garage while mine sits in the driveway. So with the camera on record i will at least have video for the police if my car is broken into.
Not a great solution but at least one that makes use of the camera.
I will say she herself cannot believe how far she let this guy control her because she is usually a very confident and self sufficient person so i think she will be much more careful in the future.

< Message edited by shadowborn61 -- 3/12/2014 5:43:26 PM >

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Control - 3/12/2014 8:56:11 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

She wasn't his submissive, she was cyber pussy. Women should not get involved with men who want all of the rewards of dominance and none of the responsibilities, and they will find this a lot with online-only relationships.

You say she ended this yesterday, but are you sure she won't return to this predatory "Dom," who must not have fully gainful employment if he has all this time on his hands to be micro-managing his sub hourly?

She does appear to have some serious boundary issues and isn't ready to enter into a healthy (non-dysfunctional) D/s dynamic with anybody. She let this interfere with her parenting, and that in itself shows poor judgment.

There's also a quick and effective way to ferret out pretenders. This could have been nipped in the bud before it became a full-blown disaster. She should have made HIM pay for any alterations to her existing lifestyle. Watch how fast Cyber-Master Domliness would have bolted and moved onto his next unsuspecting victim.

You also say, "we were not having a sexual relationship at that time." She broke up with him yesterday. Just be her friend until she can get her head straight. You don't want to be messing with damaged goods without damaging her further, despite your good intentions.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Control - 3/13/2014 1:22:08 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		I think rebound relationships always have greater potential for bad decisions. It sounds like your friends has some issues with not being in a realationship and so she willingly compromises so not to be alone. Never good.

FieryOpal's suggestion of requesting that he financially be responsible for any alterations is a good one. I know some believe that online relationships are equal to face to face, but I fully disagree. She was doing this all for someone she didn't even know!

Its great she has you for emotional support. You should encourage her to get counseling so she doesn't make these kinds of bad decisions in the future.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Control - 3/13/2014 3:33:30 AM   
AlexisANew


Posts: 103
Joined: 2/10/2014
Status: offline 		I think she needs to take some of the responsibility. The silly man that she encountered and became cyber involved with are ten a penny. They are merely fantasist's that have watched too much BDSM porn and probably spent too much time cybering in internet chat rooms where their impression of dominance and submission is formed. He had a fantasy about total control and so did she otherwise she wouldn't of embarked on this. Cyber isn't about much else than being sexually turned on by another's actions towards them and it looks like that 'total control' was a turn on to her until she got bored with it.

As for walking around looking miserable and sad, some subs do that regardless. I've had that experience with a sub in real life (away from the computer). There was absolutely no reason for this sub to walk round looking miserable and sad because I consider myself firm but fun. She however, desperately needed to feel (in her head) that it was all unconsensual and that she was indeed captured with no escape. I finished with her because I need to be with people who make me smile and not someone who looks like they've had their face slapped. I've watched her move from relationship to relationship and every time I see her with a dominant she has a face like a wet kipper. That's just how she likes it and you may find that this is how your friend likes it too.

She's moved on. Been their, got the t-shirt and hopefully learnt something about herself from this experience. She's a grown woman, she has to learn how to make good decisions in the future for the sake of her child and she needs to think about her own selfish actions before embarking on such a relationship.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Control - 3/13/2014 4:39:05 AM   
shadowborn61


Posts: 143
Joined: 11/5/2013
Status: offline 		I said we were not having a sexual relationship at this time meaning we have had in the past.
I have talked with her and suggested a kink aware counselor as there are some in the area but all i can do is make suggestions i cannot force her to take them. As for being the type who " desperately needs to feel that it was all nonconsensual and that she is captured with no escape" I do not believe so i have seen her when serving another Dom who was real life (yes away from the computer) and she soared she was more alive than i had ever seen her but the relationship ended within months due to the Dom moving away for his job so i have seen her when she was serving someone who truly cared about her and she was entirely different.

(in reply to AlexisANew)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Control - 3/13/2014 5:29:18 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

i have seen her when serving another Dom who was real life (yes away from the computer) and she soared she was more alive than i had ever seen her but the relationship ended within months due to the Dom moving away for his job so i have seen her when she was serving someone who truly cared about her and she was entirely different.


You seem to think this means she has good mental health, it doesn't. It means she derives her happiness from things outside of herself. True happiness comes from within.

She needs to work on that in order to be healthy enough for a relationship.



_____________________________



(in reply to shadowborn61)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Control - 3/13/2014 5:51:38 AM   
shadowborn61


Posts: 143
Joined: 11/5/2013
Status: offline 		@ChatteParfaitt
That may well be true but i am not a mental health professional and cannot make that call but i have known this woman for a very long time and i do think that seeing a professional would definitely help her but like i said i can only suggest not force.
If you need help you have to be the one to ask for it i know i have been there myself.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 20
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