An gentler way.... bullshit (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 5:35:54 AM)

quote:

Deportation laws might be eased

WASHINGTON — Homeland Security officials are considering at least two major policy changes to scale back deportations of immigrants in the country illegally to comply with President Barack Obama’s order for “more humane” enforcement efforts, officials said yesterday.

The first change would ease or stop deportations of foreigners who have no criminal convictions other than immigration violations. If approved, deportation efforts would chiefly target people who have been charged or convicted in court and pose a potential threat.
Source



What next, a welcome mat on the border?

The GOP is up in arms about the "welfare" bill, of which many illegals have contributed to, not to mention other problems.

And Obama wants to pull this crap.

Obama has gone from being a political joke to being an outright idiot. Is there any way within the Constitution to move the presidential election up two years before this guy screws things up so bad it makes putting a milk bucket under a bull look like an Einstein worthy idea?




Zonie63 -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 7:46:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Deportation laws might be eased

WASHINGTON — Homeland Security officials are considering at least two major policy changes to scale back deportations of immigrants in the country illegally to comply with President Barack Obama’s order for “more humane” enforcement efforts, officials said yesterday.

The first change would ease or stop deportations of foreigners who have no criminal convictions other than immigration violations. If approved, deportation efforts would chiefly target people who have been charged or convicted in court and pose a potential threat.
Source



What next, a welcome mat on the border?

The GOP is up in arms about the "welfare" bill, of which many illegals have contributed to, not to mention other problems.

And Obama wants to pull this crap.

Obama has gone from being a political joke to being an outright idiot. Is there any way within the Constitution to move the presidential election up two years before this guy screws things up so bad it makes putting a milk bucket under a bull look like an Einstein worthy idea?


I don't really even see it as much of a change in policy. The reason we have so many illegal immigrants in this country is due to the failures of multiple Administrations, not just the present one. Both parties are equally to blame, so replacing the current President won't really change anything in regards to this problem.

They're already here in our country, so that leaves us with two choices:

1. Let them stay
2. Send them back

According to their policies and the practical methods they've used to implement them, it seems that both parties have decided on option #1. The conservatives and their pro-business supporters would never want these people to leave; they're making a mint on all the cheap labor they provide. They just want them to be hounded, persecuted and remain as "undocumented" (i.e. "vulnerable to exploitation") so they can enjoy having their cake and eating it, too. No mystery there.

Likewise, I can't see the liberals supporting any mass round-ups or deportations, and from their side, they might feel they can gain politically by legalizing and registering millions of new Latino voters, most of whom would be expected to vote Democratic.

A popular view coming from the hoi polloi is to take option #2, send them back. But what would that entail? Rounding up millions of people and sending them back to Mexico? What's Mexico going to do with them? How would they react?

Here in Tucson, a single traffic stop of a suspected illegal immigrant damn near caused a riot. Whenever the police pull over someone and check on their immigration status, there have been instances of groups of people converging on them asking questions and taking pictures. If we go with option #2, then we'll definitely be unleashing a hornet's nest. These people will not go quietly, and there will likely be plenty of legal U.S. citizens who will fight on their side as well.

A significant aspect to this issue which often goes unmentioned is our ongoing dysfunctional, wishy-washy relationship with Mexico which needs to be changed drastically. We care so much about freedom and democracy for people on the other side of the planet, yet right next door, we let chaos reign, with the cartels running wild and a corrupt government going unchecked. If we want to send the military to point guns at Mexico and Mexicans, then at least they should point the guns at the right people.

That may be the ultimate solution to this problem. If we reorganize Mexico to make it more free and equitable at the level of a First World power, then I daresay many of those here illegally would likely go back on their own. We don't have a problem with illegal aliens from Canada, do we? There's a reason for that. So, all we have to do is make Mexico more like Canada, and problem solved.






kalikshama -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 8:00:23 AM)

Jeff, how much more per pound would you be willing to pay for meat in order to make slaughterhouse work a job attractive for Americans again?

Ask the owners and shareholders of industrial food corporations how interested they are in getting rid of illegal immigrants.

Food Inc. Shines a Light on the Immigrant Labor That Makes That 99c Patty Melt Possible

I caught a screening of a new documentary called Food, Inc. last night and was impressed that the filmmakers went where so many refuse to go when it comes to criticizing the food industry. The movie talked about the exploitation of undocumented workers, and how American consumers benefit from the ranks of immigrants who work in the fields and the factories for pitiful wages.

The filmmakers followed Eduardo Peña, a UFCW organizer in North Carolina who works with Smithfield workers. You know Smithfield. Its Tar Heel plant in North Carolina is the largest pork slaughterhouse in the world, processing 32,000 pigs a day. It was the same plant found responsible for some of the tainted pork from that little old disease called…swine flu earlier this year. And the company also allegedly called in immigration raids two years ago in retaliation of workers who were trying to organize themselves.

This time, the cameras catch ICE carrying out a raid on families in a trailer park near Smithfield. Bulletproof vests and ICE caps on, guns drawn, they kick in the door of a family’s home and throw a woman into the back of a police car. According to Peña, Smithfield tips off ICE regularly, giving them the names of a couple of undocumented employees at a time; ICE raids people’s homes in exchange for staying off the plant’s floor. It is terrifying footage. The segment brings into stark relief the cynical collusion between corporation and government and the exploitation of workers, undocumented and not, at every level.

It’s all so much more invisible because meat processing plants are usually hidden in backwater towns. Who could stand the smell of acres and acres of soon-to-be pork and beef, standing around in their own shit all day long? It’s why you probably never heard of Greeley, Colorado or Hyrum, Utah or Postville, Iowa before they made headlines as the site of many of the major workplace raids in recent years. (Swift in 2006 and Agriprocessors in 2008 sound familiar?)

For people who can’t stand the presence of immigrants in their neighborhood but spring for the $0.79 per pound holiday ham, news flash! A largely invisible workforce works for severely depressed wages to make that ham so cheap for you.

What else do we find out? Scary facts about the consolidation of meat and poultry processing companies in recent decades. Stories of animal abuse, environmental degradation—the image of tons of pig manure being washed downstream was particularly appetizing—and deadly food contamination. An analysis of the incestuous nature of the corn lobby and government regulatory agencies.

The unspoken political kick in the ass message of the film is that those who care about the environment, food safety and sustainable agriculture, should also care about workers’ rights.

So what can we do about it? The corruption has rotted the food industry to the core, and it’s not just meatpacking plants that are addicted to cheap, exploitable labor. Interestingly enough, the filmmakers’ tips (farmers’ markets and personal gardens) don’t offer a lot in the way of solutions for immigrant workers. We need just immigration reform, an end to pointless employer sanctions, open borders, and workers’ rights to organize upheld.

So it’s true, we are what we eat, but when it comes to food safety and sustainability, we also are only as good as what we can pressure the government to deliver when it comes to immigration reform.




DaddySatyr -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 8:03:13 AM)

I think this speaks to a slightly larger issue.

Obummer appears to be a president who only cares about enforcing certain laws.

How exactly does that work, I wonder?

If we finally elect a Libertarian president and that president decides to tell his department of justice not to "actively pursue" enforcing gun laws, do you think the PPLs might be singing a different tune?

I do.







jlf1961 -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 9:43:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Jeff, how much more per pound would you be willing to pay for meat in order to make slaughterhouse work a job attractive for Americans again?

Ask the owners and shareholders of industrial food corporations how interested they are in getting rid of illegal immigrants.

Food Inc. Shines a Light on the Immigrant Labor That Makes That 99c Patty Melt Possible

I caught a screening of a new documentary called Food, Inc. last night and was impressed that the filmmakers went where so many refuse to go when it comes to criticizing the food industry. The movie talked about the exploitation of undocumented workers, and how American consumers benefit from the ranks of immigrants who work in the fields and the factories for pitiful wages.

The filmmakers followed Eduardo Peña, a UFCW organizer in North Carolina who works with Smithfield workers. You know Smithfield. Its Tar Heel plant in North Carolina is the largest pork slaughterhouse in the world, processing 32,000 pigs a day. It was the same plant found responsible for some of the tainted pork from that little old disease called…swine flu earlier this year. And the company also allegedly called in immigration raids two years ago in retaliation of workers who were trying to organize themselves.

This time, the cameras catch ICE carrying out a raid on families in a trailer park near Smithfield. Bulletproof vests and ICE caps on, guns drawn, they kick in the door of a family’s home and throw a woman into the back of a police car. According to Peña, Smithfield tips off ICE regularly, giving them the names of a couple of undocumented employees at a time; ICE raids people’s homes in exchange for staying off the plant’s floor. It is terrifying footage. The segment brings into stark relief the cynical collusion between corporation and government and the exploitation of workers, undocumented and not, at every level.

It’s all so much more invisible because meat processing plants are usually hidden in backwater towns. Who could stand the smell of acres and acres of soon-to-be pork and beef, standing around in their own shit all day long? It’s why you probably never heard of Greeley, Colorado or Hyrum, Utah or Postville, Iowa before they made headlines as the site of many of the major workplace raids in recent years. (Swift in 2006 and Agriprocessors in 2008 sound familiar?)

For people who can’t stand the presence of immigrants in their neighborhood but spring for the $0.79 per pound holiday ham, news flash! A largely invisible workforce works for severely depressed wages to make that ham so cheap for you.

What else do we find out? Scary facts about the consolidation of meat and poultry processing companies in recent decades. Stories of animal abuse, environmental degradation—the image of tons of pig manure being washed downstream was particularly appetizing—and deadly food contamination. An analysis of the incestuous nature of the corn lobby and government regulatory agencies.

The unspoken political kick in the ass message of the film is that those who care about the environment, food safety and sustainable agriculture, should also care about workers’ rights.

So what can we do about it? The corruption has rotted the food industry to the core, and it’s not just meatpacking plants that are addicted to cheap, exploitable labor. Interestingly enough, the filmmakers’ tips (farmers’ markets and personal gardens) don’t offer a lot in the way of solutions for immigrant workers. We need just immigration reform, an end to pointless employer sanctions, open borders, and workers’ rights to organize upheld.

So it’s true, we are what we eat, but when it comes to food safety and sustainability, we also are only as good as what we can pressure the government to deliver when it comes to immigration reform.



First, the average pay for someone working a slaughter house is $13.81. Considerably better than minimum wage.

And thanks to USDA regs, working a slaughter house aint that bad anymore, even on the kill floor.

As for what I pay for meat, I raise two calves a year, hunt deer and wild hogs, so my cost is irrelevant.

Now if you want to justify keeping illegals in the US just to do those jobs, alright. How do you justify the ones that are in the US who are on food stamps, medicaid, and all the social programs?

My point is that if they want to work, let em come in legally. There are programs that allow migrant workers to come across to harvest crops, the problem is that many come over on that and then stay.

Personally, I think we should take the troops we have in Afghanistan, bring em home and put them on the border between the US and Mexico. It is legal, it has been done in the past, and it would solve the problem.








RottenJohnny -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 1:52:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
My point is that if they want to work, let em come in legally. There are programs that allow migrant workers to come across to harvest crops, the problem is that many come over on that and then stay.

Personally, I think we should take the troops we have in Afghanistan, bring em home and put them on the border between the US and Mexico. It is legal, it has been done in the past, and it would solve the problem.

Totally agree. All are welcome but have the courtesy to check in at the gate first. Then either apply for citizenship or leave when you're done. That's all we ask.




Mehereagain2 -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 2:06:38 PM)

Who the heck are you to deny anyone access. Not only did you take this country and slaughtered it's original occupants, but your ancestors, not far removed came here as starving, uneducated immigrants. For the most part. You have no platform to judge or to deny to others what you took full advantage of.




ExiledTyrant -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 2:09:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehereagain2

Who the heck are you to deny anyone access. Not only did you take this country and slaughtered it's original occupants, but your ancestors, not far removed came here as starving, uneducated immigrants. For the most part. You have no platform to judge or to deny to others what you took full advantage of.


We sure could use the delegate from the Neanderthal Nation to step in here about now.

I wonder how the suffering would compare...




Rawni -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 2:17:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehereagain2

Who the heck are you to deny anyone access. Not only did you take this country and slaughtered it's original occupants, but your ancestors, not far removed came here as starving, uneducated immigrants. For the most part. You have no platform to judge or to deny to others what you took full advantage of.


I don't know about you, but I cannot prevent or do much about what my people once did a long, long time ago. What we can do now is a more humane treatment. One wrong doesn't justify another. It was wrong. I hate what they did. We can hope to make sure it never happens again. I don't like a lot of laws we have, but some are needed and who they are to expect the laws of the land to be humanely enforced... are American citizens no matter how they came to be them. Access is not denied. Access has a procedure that many legally use.




jlf1961 -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 2:34:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehereagain2

Who the heck are you to deny anyone access. Not only did you take this country and slaughtered it's original occupants, but your ancestors, not far removed came here as starving, uneducated immigrants. For the most part. You have no platform to judge or to deny to others what you took full advantage of.


First, I happen to be part native American, so basically, up yours.

Secondly, I pay taxes, and I am getting pissed at the illegals drawing food stamps, medicaid and housing assistance the government hands out.

Third, I am really tired of calling a government agency and having to press 1 for English, and the second choice is Spanish.

Fourth, considering that these people are coming from countries with worse medical care than ours, and remember internationally we are rated 37th in health care, I really dont like paying higher prices for treatment because these people go to ER's for free medical care and never pay their bills.

Finally, I dont like being politically correct so as to not offend illegal aliens sensibilities because they cant go through the steps to get here legally.

In other words, if they are here illegally, ship em home. If they come back, bring back the chain gang road crews so they at least contribute to society.




Rawni -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 2:35:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Jeff, how much more per pound would you be willing to pay for meat in order to make slaughterhouse work a job attractive for Americans again?

Ask the owners and shareholders of industrial food corporations how interested they are in getting rid of illegal immigrants.

Food Inc. Shines a Light on the Immigrant Labor That Makes That 99c Patty Melt Possible

I caught a screening of a new documentary called Food, Inc. last night and was impressed that the filmmakers went where so many refuse to go when it comes to criticizing the food industry. The movie talked about the exploitation of undocumented workers, and how American consumers benefit from the ranks of immigrants who work in the fields and the factories for pitiful wages.

The filmmakers followed Eduardo Peña, a UFCW organizer in North Carolina who works with Smithfield workers. You know Smithfield. Its Tar Heel plant in North Carolina is the largest pork slaughterhouse in the world, processing 32,000 pigs a day. It was the same plant found responsible for some of the tainted pork from that little old disease called…swine flu earlier this year. And the company also allegedly called in immigration raids two years ago in retaliation of workers who were trying to organize themselves.

This time, the cameras catch ICE carrying out a raid on families in a trailer park near Smithfield. Bulletproof vests and ICE caps on, guns drawn, they kick in the door of a family’s home and throw a woman into the back of a police car. According to Peña, Smithfield tips off ICE regularly, giving them the names of a couple of undocumented employees at a time; ICE raids people’s homes in exchange for staying off the plant’s floor. It is terrifying footage. The segment brings into stark relief the cynical collusion between corporation and government and the exploitation of workers, undocumented and not, at every level.

It’s all so much more invisible because meat processing plants are usually hidden in backwater towns. Who could stand the smell of acres and acres of soon-to-be pork and beef, standing around in their own shit all day long? It’s why you probably never heard of Greeley, Colorado or Hyrum, Utah or Postville, Iowa before they made headlines as the site of many of the major workplace raids in recent years. (Swift in 2006 and Agriprocessors in 2008 sound familiar?)

For people who can’t stand the presence of immigrants in their neighborhood but spring for the $0.79 per pound holiday ham, news flash! A largely invisible workforce works for severely depressed wages to make that ham so cheap for you.

What else do we find out? Scary facts about the consolidation of meat and poultry processing companies in recent decades. Stories of animal abuse, environmental degradation—the image of tons of pig manure being washed downstream was particularly appetizing—and deadly food contamination. An analysis of the incestuous nature of the corn lobby and government regulatory agencies.

The unspoken political kick in the ass message of the film is that those who care about the environment, food safety and sustainable agriculture, should also care about workers’ rights.

So what can we do about it? The corruption has rotted the food industry to the core, and it’s not just meatpacking plants that are addicted to cheap, exploitable labor. Interestingly enough, the filmmakers’ tips (farmers’ markets and personal gardens) don’t offer a lot in the way of solutions for immigrant workers. We need just immigration reform, an end to pointless employer sanctions, open borders, and workers’ rights to organize upheld.

So it’s true, we are what we eat, but when it comes to food safety and sustainability, we also are only as good as what we can pressure the government to deliver when it comes to immigration reform.


Hidden in backwater small towns? Really? Have you ever lived in any of those places? I have. Greeley. I also lived in one in Michigan, where American's took those jobs because they fed their children. Greeley has area's where it did smell. So did some areas of Orange County California because of a salsa plant or Battle Creek Michigan because of the cereal plants... that filled the air with sugar or a burnt sugar smell that would gag you... but you eat cereal don't you? Some sort?

I was in Greeley when they made those raids. Do you know what happened in Greeley to employment when word got out that people could get jobs there? People could afford to fed their children... people who bought houses and added to the economy and after the word got out, could no longer do so because of illegal immigrants coming in and working jobs no one could afford to work, for pennies on the dollar because they broke other local laws by living so many to an apartment or house. Was this the fault of anyone other than big companies and laws not being enforced?

I do not blame this all on immigrants. They lived in peace without threat and continued to pour in by the family. I love all people and hate what my direct family did when this country slaughtered many people... but I have spoken to people from this site from Mexico City that say they have a plan to take over again and right those wrongs. From what I have seen in many places... I believe it. If Americans allow it.. so be it, but there is far more to this then meat eating people, prices, willing workers and raids.

Hell, Greeley started with men that cities are named after.. the whole area is... men I find disgusting and for which I hope there is a hell and they burn forever for the horrific things they did, but that doesn't mean that because a wrong was committed, that future wrongs are excused because they will work and others will not. Those companies would rarely hire an American. Is that our fault? Shall we stop eating to right a wrong?

I will pay what I must to eat. I will pay what I must so that society can progress and change some things... but please don't say much about cities you don't know the history of, recently and act as if it is an example of something. The raids were needed to correct Swift and other companies as well as to say... we are no longer allowing our laws to be broken. Clean it up. Swift had to hire new people. Guess who got jobs? They weren't the best jobs, but they were jobs and people took them.




BamaD -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 2:39:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehereagain2

Who the heck are you to deny anyone access. Not only did you take this country and slaughtered it's original occupants, but your ancestors, not far removed came here as starving, uneducated immigrants. For the most part. You have no platform to judge or to deny to others what you took full advantage of.

Do you realize that you are advocating that we cease to exist as a nation?
Every nation in the world denies access. There is no nation in the world that was not created by
overrunning someone.
We are just demanding that people who come here do so legally.




MrRodgers -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 3:42:48 PM)

Do what we did in the past to 10's of 1000's...put them right into the army.

Does being part American Indian (which is what most people really mean) really make a difference when it was the other part that...came here illegally ? I am 100% American native and of Irish decent.

I really would like the big picture on just how much money in benefits do go to illegals. I can't imagine it is too much more if as much as say one or two B2 bombers. Again, maybe they'd be cost-effective if we sent them off to fight our wars hey ? (see above)

I wonder how this comports with Obama deporting more at the border than any other previous admin, ? I wonder if big agric., isn't behind this ?

But hey, if I was an American capitalist I don't care about the taxes because I am paying only about 1/2 or less than most of you suckers anyway. IF, I was an American capitalist.




jlf1961 -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 4:07:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Do what we did in the past to 10's of 1000's...put them right into the army.

Does being part American Indian (which is what most people really mean) really make a difference when it was the other part that...came here illegally ? I am 100% American native and of Irish decent.

I really would like the big picture on just how much money in benefits do go to illegals. I can't imagine it is too much more if as much as say one or two B2 bombers. Again, maybe they'd be cost-effective if we sent them off to fight our wars hey ? (see above)

I wonder how this comports with Obama deporting more at the border than any other previous admin, ? I wonder if big agric., isn't behind this ?

But hey, if I was an American capitalist I don't care about the taxes because I am paying only about 1/2 or less than most of you suckers anyway. IF, I was an American capitalist.



Take a look here about the number of illegal immigrants on welfare compared to American citizens.




joether -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 5:04:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

Deportation laws might be eased

WASHINGTON — Homeland Security officials are considering at least two major policy changes to scale back deportations of immigrants in the country illegally to comply with President Barack Obama’s order for “more humane” enforcement efforts, officials said yesterday.

The first change would ease or stop deportations of foreigners who have no criminal convictions other than immigration violations. If approved, deportation efforts would chiefly target people who have been charged or convicted in court and pose a potential threat.
Source



What next, a welcome mat on the border?

The GOP is up in arms about the "welfare" bill, of which many illegals have contributed to, not to mention other problems.

And Obama wants to pull this crap.

Obama has gone from being a political joke to being an outright idiot. Is there any way within the Constitution to move the presidential election up two years before this guy screws things up so bad it makes putting a milk bucket under a bull look like an Einstein worthy idea?


This could have all been settled back in 2007, but conservatives couldn't 'play ball' with Democrats. The Immigration bill between McCain and Kennedy was a pretty good way of dealing with the whole problem. But conservatives shot it down because it would give 'amesty' to those that broke the law. This by the same people I would suspect of breaking speeding laws on the nation's highways on a daily basis. How many of those that break the laws that count themselves 'honest and responsible' report their illegal actions to the local police or FBI locations? NONE.

So lets dispense with the conservative 'bullshit', as it hasn't help solve any problems since 2007. 'Thanks' to a bad economy, a decent chunk of illegal residents have since moved out of the country. Added to that of the President using tactics to force employers to keep legitimate records by sending federal lawyers to review cases on a routine basis.

An of the illegal immigrants in this country over the decades; what have they been doing? Working, learning, paying bills, paying taxes, etc. Believe it or not, but there are a score of these residents that pay the Income Tax voluntarily through the IRS. I didn't frankly believe it myself until I did some research. When someone goes into a store to purchase things, they pay state and federal taxes as they apply on things purchased. There is no 'illegal discount' on the legal books where taxes are concerned.

These people have raised families, kept their neighborhoods as clean and crime free as possible. In fact, many will give the police vital information to hunt down the really bad villains in exchange to begin given a blind eye on their immigration status. The grand majority of these people, since entering the country illegally have since been 'law abiding' individuals. They take the jobs not many US Citizens would venture. Very low wages, hazardous conditions, long hours, an not breaks. Do not see many Americans stepping up to take those jobs, do you?

I think most of us agree that the immigration laws in the country....suck. An they are NOT going to be fixed the way conservatives demand. Until conservatives realize they have to swallow their pride and compromise like adults with the moderates and liberals in the nation, NOTHING, will get done. The McCain/Kennedy bill has its share of problems, but it fixes the current problems both in the system and the culture that keeps the current system broken.





joether -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 5:27:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Do what we did in the past to 10's of 1000's...put them right into the army.

Does being part American Indian (which is what most people really mean) really make a difference when it was the other part that...came here illegally ? I am 100% American native and of Irish decent.

I really would like the big picture on just how much money in benefits do go to illegals. I can't imagine it is too much more if as much as say one or two B2 bombers. Again, maybe they'd be cost-effective if we sent them off to fight our wars hey ? (see above)

I wonder how this comports with Obama deporting more at the border than any other previous admin, ? I wonder if big agric., isn't behind this ?

But hey, if I was an American capitalist I don't care about the taxes because I am paying only about 1/2 or less than most of you suckers anyway. IF, I was an American capitalist.

Take a look here about the number of illegal immigrants on welfare compared to American citizens.


An WHY are they on welfare, jlf1961? THEY ARE LOW PAID to begin with.....HELLO?!?!?!?!?!?!

In most cases, these people do not make even the federal minimal wage of $7.25. An its been shown that a family of four, with one person at this wage for forty hours is STILL below the federal poverty level. How exactly do not expect these people to pays bills? Oh yeah 'just go back to their country'; if that was possible and would lead to a better future for them and their children, they would. Since the country they left sucks economically, and the United States is much better on many fronts, it would make sense to 'stick around'.

The problem with your 'link' comes straight out of Wikipedia.org: "The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is a nonpartisan,[1] politically conservative[2] non-profit research organization that advocates immigration reduction in the United States". Now how 'unbias' do you think an organization that is very politically conservative and tries to reduce immigration would be on ANY of the topics here? Check out the wiki about the Southern Poverty Law Center's understanding of CIS.

The problem that studies face is funding. Obtaining funding is a PAIN IN THE ASS! When they do, those organizations rarily give those conducting the study free reign on anything. Like studies years ago declaring that cigarette smoking was non-lethal (paid for by the tobacco industry). One has to look at the political motivations of the study, who funded it, and what those people's motivations are for the study. An I'm sure if I went looking, I could find quite a few relatively unbiased studies that show CIS is full of shit. Just reading the beginning of that link page felt like 'we hate Mexican' conservative talking points.

Did you seriously think....NONE....of us would check the information and its credibility? Took me like a few seconds on google to clarify what I was suspecting. That your link was full of shit. By an organization that routinely uses fear tactics in media to push its political agenda.






jlf1961 -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 5:38:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Do what we did in the past to 10's of 1000's...put them right into the army.

Does being part American Indian (which is what most people really mean) really make a difference when it was the other part that...came here illegally ? I am 100% American native and of Irish decent.

I really would like the big picture on just how much money in benefits do go to illegals. I can't imagine it is too much more if as much as say one or two B2 bombers. Again, maybe they'd be cost-effective if we sent them off to fight our wars hey ? (see above)

I wonder how this comports with Obama deporting more at the border than any other previous admin, ? I wonder if big agric., isn't behind this ?

But hey, if I was an American capitalist I don't care about the taxes because I am paying only about 1/2 or less than most of you suckers anyway. IF, I was an American capitalist.

Take a look here about the number of illegal immigrants on welfare compared to American citizens.


An WHY are they on welfare, jlf1961? THEY ARE LOW PAID to begin with.....HELLO?!?!?!?!?!?!

In most cases, these people do not make even the federal minimal wage of $7.25. An its been shown that a family of four, with one person at this wage for forty hours is STILL below the federal poverty level. How exactly do not expect these people to pays bills? Oh yeah 'just go back to their country'; if that was possible and would lead to a better future for them and their children, they would. Since the country they left sucks economically, and the United States is much better on many fronts, it would make sense to 'stick around'.



And if they were here legally this would not be a problem, they would get at least minimum wage if not more.

So, let me get this straight, illegal aliens should get all the benefits of being here legally and not have any consequences?

I am sorry their life is so bad, but it is not my burden to pay taxes to cover their medical care, food, housing, or anything else.

Personally, troops patrolling the border with full authority to detain people illegally crossing the border. Since they just come back when the US sends em home, how about chain gang road crews for the able bodied?

I break the law, I face the consequences, these people break the law, they get an expense free ride back home so they can haul their asses back to the border so they can come back.

US troops patrolled the Mexican border up till 1920, after the Posse Comitatus Act was passed in 1878. We sure as hell dont have enough border patrol agents to cover the border. Personally, I think the fence needs to be electrified and a 2 foot thick 45 foot deep foundation under the fence to prevent tunnels.




BamaD -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 6:25:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Do what we did in the past to 10's of 1000's...put them right into the army.

Does being part American Indian (which is what most people really mean) really make a difference when it was the other part that...came here illegally ? I am 100% American native and of Irish decent.

I really would like the big picture on just how much money in benefits do go to illegals. I can't imagine it is too much more if as much as say one or two B2 bombers. Again, maybe they'd be cost-effective if we sent them off to fight our wars hey ? (see above)

I wonder how this comports with Obama deporting more at the border than any other previous admin, ? I wonder if big agric., isn't behind this ?

But hey, if I was an American capitalist I don't care about the taxes because I am paying only about 1/2 or less than most of you suckers anyway. IF, I was an American capitalist.

We haven't bought a B-52 in over 50 years




RottenJohnny -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 6:38:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehereagain2
Who the heck are you to deny anyone access. Not only did you take this country and slaughtered it's original occupants, but your ancestors, not far removed came here as starving, uneducated immigrants. For the most part. You have no platform to judge or to deny to others what you took full advantage of.


First, I happen to be part native American, so basically, up yours.

[sm=rofl.gif]
Sweet!




DaddySatyr -> RE: An gentler way.... bullshit (3/15/2014 6:54:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mehereagain2

Who the heck are you to deny anyone access. Not only did you take this country and slaughtered it's original occupants, but your ancestors, not far removed came here as starving, uneducated immigrants. For the most part. You have no platform to judge or to deny to others what you took full advantage of.



First, I happen to be part native American, so basically, up yours.



[sm=rofl.gif]

Sweet!



I just got a drive-by mail and block from the guy so, I'm enjoying the carving.

I'm ¼ Cherokee. Do I get to talk about illegal immigrants, too? Is that okay, please?







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