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RE: Is it really a problem? - 3/16/2014 3:05:53 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
God, but what a typical crock of shit.

Somebody comes up with a "let dumbasses feel good" waste of money project, it gets pointed out that it is a useless feel good waste of money, and suddenly we have douchebag nonsense that equates this one stupid little thing with an entire social ill, assertions that anyone who doesn't support wasting money so dumbasses can feel good doesn't care about the social ill as a whole, and just for good measure, a halelujah chorus to a horrendously conceived and developed hyperpartisan law that is getting changed by executive decree about once a week.

The overwhelming majority of people who want to kill themselves just get the job done. The fractional percentage who feel the need to make it a spectacle are no more important than the ones who hang themselves from the curtain rod in the shower.

If we are going to spend $66 million on a suicide prevention project, how many crisis lines can we staff with professionals for that money?


I hate to say this Heretic, but you really do not understand the problem. Suicide is the final decision of Depression suffers, its not the first. Do you understand how people acquire Depression in the first place? How its treated? Or how it places stress on those immediately around the one with Depression?

From the moment a Depression suffer wakes up to the moment they fall asleep, a part of their brain is trying to kill them. It knows all of their weaknesses, knows all of their powers. It knows when to punch the person in moments of failure and belittles them in their successes. It wears them down, places more stress on their existence, and amplifies the usual negative shit people say to them. Being foolish, a decent chunk try to medicate themselves with drugs and alcohol (there by increasing their problems). The person's normal defenses are just shot to all hell around other people (bodily and emotionally). Wear and tear over time, simply drains the person towards 'giving up', rather than 'lets find a solution'.

Do you want to know why people that have Depression kill themselves, Heretic? Its when the mind is numb to the pain and the body is to tired to resist. A real torture that so many endure day in and day out without realizing it. And most of them put on a mask to love ones and those that might be able to help the approaching 'train wreck' from taking place. Most because its a stigma. Those in the military are deathly afraid of admitting it as they feel its an end to their career. Same for many others in critical areas of business and government.

I do not think the $66 million is best spent on suicide prevention, but on three things:

A ) Getting people to see their doctors more regularly. A medical doctor, a nurse practitioner or a psychologist can help diagnosis the most likely form of Depression in a patient. But it helps to clue the doctor in by way of a loved one that something is not right.
B ) Campaign to remove the stigma. As I stated above, people with Depression do not get treatment until 'shit is hitting the fan', because they are deathly afraid of losing their job and/or careers.
C ) Find better treatments. There exists a wide range of treatments that basically come down to 'therapy' and 'medication'. Lets just say this part is, REALLY COMPLICATED, to explain in layman's terms.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Is it really a problem? - 3/16/2014 3:52:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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I'm quite aware of clinical depression, Jo, and the differences between that serious condition and how the general "blues" everyone gets from time to time. Just don't assume that because you are passionate about something makes it a top priority for everyone else.

I think we should approach all sorts of mental health issues, including depression, better than we do, and I think a good case can be made for it as public health issue without you making it an excuse to sing the praises of a law even the President knows is a complete clusterfuck.

The last suicide I had to find a way to wrap my head around was of an old friend from the service. He had been gone a good while before I found out about it. He shot himself, and left his rambling "suicide note" on the voicemail of a woman who had left him. Naturally, he didn't hang up before pulling the trigger. At least the coroner was able to put the exact time of death on the paperwork. He also wrapped himself in a blanket first, so he wouldn't make too much of a mess.

Cheer up. It's spring. Get out in the sunshine, get some excercise, re-arrange the furniture in your room.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Is it really a problem? - 3/16/2014 6:55:37 PM   
Aylee


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How is putting nets under the bridge going to reduce the stigma of depression or suicidal thoughts?

"Dayum, I am depressed and hate having to get out of bed. I think that I will kill myself by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge because my life sucks so much and people think that I am loser because I never smile. Oh wait! They put nets underneath it. Never mind, I guess I won't kill myself."


Yeah. . . for some reason, I just do not think that it is going to do a thing to the suicide rate. *sigh*

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Is it really a problem? - 3/16/2014 7:00:46 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

How is putting nets under the bridge going to reduce the stigma of depression or suicidal thoughts?

"Dayum, I am depressed and hate having to get out of bed. I think that I will kill myself by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge because my life sucks so much and people think that I am loser because I never smile. Oh wait! They put nets underneath it. Never mind, I guess I won't kill myself."


Yeah. . . for some reason, I just do not think that it is going to do a thing to the suicide rate. *sigh*

Maybe they won't notice the nets and will not think to crawl out to the edge of them and jump from there.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Is it really a problem? - 3/16/2014 7:33:22 PM   
DNSerror


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Hi everyone. I just did a Google search for "golden gate bridge suicide prevention." The second result was this Slate.com article from last October, which quotes psychiatrists and psychologists who deal with suicide and contains links to studies about suicide prevention measures.

There's a lot of information in the article. Some key quotes that relate to comments in this thread include:

"The evidence showing that bridge barriers work is “overwhelming,” says Paula Clayton, professor of psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine and former medical director of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. Most people die the first time they try to kill themselves. The easiest way to prevent suicide is by restricting access to methods with a high risk of death, Clayton says—such as jumping from a bridge."

"A 2013 meta-analysis led by Australian suicide expert Jane Pirkis reviewed studies of deterrents at suicide hot spots around the world. The interventions reduced suicides by jumping at the sites by about 85 percent. Although there was an uptick in jumping at neighboring sites in some cities in the decades after deterrents were erected, the dramatic drop in jumping at the hot spots led to reduced overall rates of suicide by jumping."

"There is an enduring notion that if you erect a barrier on a suicide magnet, people will just go somewhere else. The idea that you can’t stop a suicidal individual is “absolutely false,” says Mel Blaustein, who as president of the Psychiatric Foundation of Northern California helped convince bridge officials to approve a deterrent. People often fixate on specific means of suicide, he says. For those drawn to the Golden Gate Bridge, the 4-foot rail suggests no one cares if they jump, as one note left on the bridge made painfully clear: “Why do you make it so easy?” "

"This myth that barriers don’t work was first debunked in 1978 in a landmark study by University of California­–Berkeley clinical psychologist Richard Seiden, who tracked the fates of 515 people restrained from jumping between 1937 and 1971. Although a few of the thwarted jumpers went on to kill themselves, 94 percent were either alive years later or had died of natural causes. Seiden concluded that the findings underscore the “crisis oriented” nature of suicide."

"As director of psychiatry at St. Francis Hospital in San Francisco, Blaustein sees suicidal people “every single day of the week.” If you can curb that initial impulsive attempt, he says, patients often realize, even without treatment, that they don’t want to die. Many leave the hospital within 24 hours."

"Roughly 90 percent of those who jump from the Golden Gate Bridge and survive do not go on to kill themselves, according to the Bridge Rail Foundation, dedicated to erecting a barrier on the bridge. The figure echoes the findings of a 2002 systematic review, which showed that roughly 9 out of 10 people who survived a suicide attempt did not subsequently die by suicide. (If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call 1-800-273-TALK [8255] for help from a trained counselor at the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline.)"

"When the bridge district polled residents in 2008, half of nearly 3,500 respondents objected to a barrier, mostly in the belief that it wouldn’t prevent suicide. Many resented spending public funds on people who want to die. “People need to suffer the consequences of their actions,” wrote one commenter. “Better to build a middle barrier for the bridge to help innocent people.” Virtually every article about suicides on the bridge elicits similar sentiments."

(The 'middle barrier' thing is referring to the fact that there is not a physical barrier between northbound and southbound traffic on the bridge. The 'innocent people' that the commenter is referring to are people driving on the bridge who presumably are not trying to kill themselves, as opposed to the troubled people who jump off the bridge.)

I'll also quote the final part of the article, in which the author discloses a personal interest, referring to a man whose body was found in the waters near the bridge in March 2013:

"How many pedestrians and cyclists streamed past the middle-aged man on that chilly March day, oblivious to the trauma that drove him to end it all? If anyone had asked me how that lifeless body wound up in the frigid waters off Marshall’s Beach, I could have told them about the striking young man who moved from New Jersey to San Francisco 33 years ago, when his penetrating dark brown eyes still flashed with joy. I would have told them how the flashes grew rarer over time, replaced by unexplained fits of rage and mystifying mood swings. I would have said that he pushed away all who cared for him, and that the last time I saw him, nearly a decade ago, the light in his eyes was gone."


[edited to get rid of a long hyperlink that was messing up the margins]


< Message edited by DNSerror -- 3/16/2014 7:49:12 PM >

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RE: Is it really a problem? - 3/16/2014 8:50:57 PM   
MercTech


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If they use the industrial style nets I wonder how long before they are arresting teenagers for jumping into the nets for fun?

I've seen it when they put up nets for working over the side of bridges for maintenance.

I still wonder about one Monday when there were six pairs of panties tied into the net.

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