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RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 12:37:57 AM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

For me, it's knowledge.

When I first started looking for a Dom a decade or so ago, I thought the usual conventions of vanilla dating didn't apply. I read a lot of stuff on various websites and assumed that the whole dating thing didn't apply to bdsm. So that's what I followed.

I found that guys who I played with on the first date (whether it was a little bit of mild control or a full-on private play session) rarely turned out to be the real deal that I personally was looking for. Some played and then disappeared into the night. Others turned into raging control freaks overnight.

I took some time out and thought about what I wanted. I got to know some people who did this for real and I talked to them. What I heard was pretty simple. If you want a lasting relationship with someone that goes beyond the kink, then you need to get to know them first. Just like in vanilla dating. Find out if you're compatible in ways other than kink. Find out if they're trustworthy. Find out if you actually like each other.

So that's what I did. I dated. There was no D/s for a few months. Instead, we talked a lot, held hands, giggled, went to the cinema, to the beach, to each other's homes. Some never got past this point because it became apparent that we didn't have much in common apart from being kinky.

One did. He was happy to ensure that I was happy with the pace of the relationship. He was happy to talk and cuddle and learn about each other. We moved gradually into D/s and then (to my surprise) into our version of M/s.

We've been together 4 years and planning a long future together. I don't think that would have happened if we'd led with our hormones instead of our brains.

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to LongDistDom)

Post #: 21

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 1:54:39 AM

AthenaSurrenders

Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline

fr

When you say 'action' are you talking about barking orders and kinky play?

Because I absolutely want to get to know you first, so I feel that I can trust you. For me, I need a certain level of vulnerability to a partner which comes with intimacy. I could never achieve that with a play mate at a club, because my brain wouldn't allow me to make myself that vulnerable to a casual partner. So yes, the talking is important.

But you can bet your ass I'll be watching to make sure your actions line up with your words. Long before you give me a kinky order, I need to see how you talk to the waiter, how seriously you take work and family responsibilities, how clean you keep your house and a thousand other little clues as to whether you are likely to make a decent dom. This is why online wouldn't work for me. It's all talk, nothing to back up what you are saying.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to myotherself)

Post #: 22

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 5:05:02 AM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Surely you have been to clubs where playing is done between Doms and subs who don't know each other.

I don't "play" publicly, so no, I have not been to clubs where playing is done by strangers. I've never been to a club at all. Have no interest in it.

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 3/16/2014 5:07:29 AM >

_____________________________

No longer searching -- found my one and only right here on CM

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 23

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 5:20:02 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

May I ask why you're a long distance dom? What or who are you hiding from?

_____________________________

(in reply to LongDistDom)

Post #: 24

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 6:00:32 AM

freedomdwarf1

Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Bullshit. Just because something doesn't happen in your world, doesn't mean it doesn't happen in the real world. Taking some time to get to know a person is the smart, mature way to do things. That doesn't mean that play on a first meet is wrong for everyone, but to encourage someone to go for the play on a first meet is irresponsible and flat out wrong.

Priceless advice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
...Surely you have been to clubs where playing is done between Doms and subs who don't know each other.

Most of the places I've ever been to, strangers don't usually do this sort of shit.
They usually spend some time with each other getting to know them and their limits etc.
They have drinks, chat, organize, etc etc etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
Certainly every sub I've met outside of clubs did not want to go through the dating ritual before playing because, well, because they left that vanilla concept behind with the vanilla shake date. You know, all of us realize what is at stake here including the OP as we are not children to be lectured nor are any of us going to do something they don't already want to do based on my post. I am just reassuring them that these actions are actually very normal for BDSM types and we are not on a vanilla shake date.

Normal for you maybe, but NOT for the rest of the world at large.
Sorry Arty, BDSM does not mean you complete throw 'nilla out the window.
IMHO, the only subs that would do this sort of shit are hoes, prostitutes and people that don't care for their own well-being.
And let's face it, most D's don't want someone with that sort of attitude.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
The first and very beautiful submissive I ever met dropped me like a hot potatoe because I wanted to take her to dinner and make nice and she wanted me to pull her hair. It was a lesson I never forgot and I pass it along when it makes sense.

One bad apple does not make a bad barrel.
Every bit of advice you pass on these forums has not been good or even safe for most people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
I found her to be not the exception but the norm unless one is talking about the girl who does not know what she wants to be and does not know what she wants in Him, yet, and even then she wants to be led. So lead or she will find someone who will, quickly.
You can shout "bullshit" till the cows come home and write as many insulting posts as you wish but that will never change the real world.

You must live on a different planet to everyone else 'cuz that sort of thing is very unusual.

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 25

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 6:57:43 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LongDistDom

Personally, I like to get to know subs before doing much, though playing a bit on the first day is always fine.

My question, now, is: Subs, would you rather a Dom/Master talk and get to know you first, or learn you with actions?

Bah,I'm a swine and want the best of all worlds. I talk to her while I abuse her.
"So slut, on a scale of 1-1000, do tell, how much did that branding iron hurt."

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to LongDistDom)

Post #: 26

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 7:06:28 AM

TenderTorment

Posts: 304
Joined: 12/30/2012
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

Without knowledge you are poking around in the dark to some extent (pun intended). Having taken the time to garner knowledge, to probe and massage the cerebral organ so that it pours forth its secrets any subsequent actions are far more significant IMO.

I would add that I don't do casual play of any sort, mostly for this very reason.

(in reply to myotherself)

Post #: 27

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 11:37:44 AM

SeekingTrinity

Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline

~FRing it~

I always like to caution people to take the whole "this is how it has always been in my world" thing with a grain of salt. Seeing as how you don't really know what kind of vibe that person gives off nor do you really know his/her partner selecting or the quality of people they attract, do you really want to base how you approach people in your life based on someone you don't know and who may not have clue one how the real world works outside the confines of their own mind? Maybe they attract people who hold themselves in such low value that they will let anyone do whatever to them? I wouldn't risk modeling how I conduct myself just because some yahoo I don't know spouts off about how they have experienced things, blah blah, blah.

OP, do you YOUR way.

I will say this. Anyone I meet for the first time and they have the audacity to do shit like try to grab my hair in a restaurant gets dropped like a diseased limb right then and there. A dinner fork stabbed through their hand or a punch to their throat might be what my instinct would be, but a night in jail for assault is never fun. Not that Id know or anything.

OP, my guy and I did play in the beginning when we met. But I can honestly say that it just kept getting better and more meaningful as we continued to get to know each other as people in addition to our play. For us, the mental and emotional connection made the physical connection sooooooooo much better. The transition from "I trust you in play" to "I honestly trust you with my very life" is very powerful. Of course you have to trust someone with your life if you play and your ability to defend yourself is taken away as part of that play. But it's very different when you play as strangers at a club and you have club DMs watching out for you and when you are alone with the one person you trust so deeply that you offer up everything you are to him (and in our case he offers up everything he is to me).

Do your thing your way and do it how it makes you happy. If you are true to yourself, your odds of finding a compatible partner increases. Try to do it in a way that isn't you and you may end up attracting the very types you aren't looking for. If approaching from vanilla and transitioning to kink is who you are, don't let anyone tell you different or get you to try being something you aren't.

There is no such thing as "one true way"...no matter how convinced some may be that this concept exists in their very small part of the bigger world.

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 3/16/2014 12:07:08 PM >

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 28

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 12:52:46 PM

Killerangel

Posts: 1169
Joined: 8/3/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Actually, playing limits vanish quickly in a first face to face dom/sub meeting if a you click with the sub, even temporarily, and so "playing a bit" never really happens because once her "sub on" switch is flicked "on" by you, you either need to stay on the porch or run with the big dogs or it will be the last meeting you have with her.

I hear many mentioning things like meeting a few times first and blah blah blah, but nope, that does not happen. She is hungry and so are you from minute one or you are both vanilla and you need to go get a milk shake at Dairy Queen, you know what I mean?

How big is the sample size that you've experienced this me Tarzan, you Jane, stuff with in person? 2 women? 3? I wouldn't pass that off as a general truth.

Typically when people talk about their own lives, they quantify their comments by interjecting somewhere that it pertains to a small sampling of the population as it happened in their own life. You seem to get into trouble frequently by making sweeping generalizations whose main purpose seems to be to pump up your own ego, and these generalizations are not based on any numbers large enough to deserve such broad statements.

(in reply to Arturas)

Post #: 29

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 1:43:03 PM

CatharsisKentUK

Posts: 31
Joined: 2/22/2014
Status: offline

Depends on what you're really aiming for. If you want a LTR that goes beyond the dungeon, you need to have more in common than kink, as myotherself pointed out. If you just want casual play, you can pretty much focus on sexual compatibility and maybe friendship. But you can't put the cart before the horse, whether your relationship is BDSM based or not. If you don't get along as friends hanging out to start with, it's unlikely you'll suddenly get along just because you're both kinky.

If your goal is a LTR, I'd say start out focusing on companionship, because once you settle down together you'll spend a long time out of the bedroom. As well as compatibility of personality, look for life goals that tally up and whether your lives are likely to mesh well in the long term. Obviously discuss kink, keep things flirtatious but be light hearted about it rather than pushing for control. Communicate, communicate, communicate, because there is no set schedule for a woman being ready for kink. You need to treat your potential on an individual basis and insist she communicate her doubts and fears to you, so that you can address them.

You seems like you've got a good head on your shoulders. You're concerned enough to be here seeking advice, which is half the battle. Just play everything by ear and focus on the bigger picture. You don't have to pretend to be all fluffy and vanilla, far from it. Just recognise that submission must be offered. Don't push for it. You don't have any kind of power, control or monopoly over someone unless they expressly say so. There's nothing wrong with a bit of swagger, so long as you remember that.

Edited, because having read the OP's profile, my original post was way off base.

< Message edited by CatharsisKentUK -- 3/16/2014 1:55:28 PM >

(in reply to Killerangel)

Post #: 30

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 2:50:23 PM

LongDistDom

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/11/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

fr

When you say 'action' are you talking about barking orders and kinky play?

Because I absolutely want to get to know you first, so I feel that I can trust you. For me, I need a certain level of vulnerability to a partner which comes with intimacy. I could never achieve that with a play mate at a club, because my brain wouldn't allow me to make myself that vulnerable to a casual partner. So yes, the talking is important.

But you can bet your ass I'll be watching to make sure your actions line up with your words. Long before you give me a kinky order, I need to see how you talk to the waiter, how seriously you take work and family responsibilities, how clean you keep your house and a thousand other little clues as to whether you are likely to make a decent dom. This is why online wouldn't work for me. It's all talk, nothing to back up what you are saying.

This is actually another good point- something I've always tried to have attention for but can't say that I pick up on. The fine details of daily life are a bigger hint to who someone is than life in bed. You could have a raging dom in bed that is the most polite, respectable person outside of the dom relationship. And for the opposite, you can have someone who is gentle, even squeemish in bed who is a complete brute outside of the relationships.

Good point, Athena, thanks for posting :D

_____________________________

Anyone can have a kinky fuck. It takes true passion for what you do to have kinky intimacy.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)

Post #: 31

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 2:52:50 PM

LongDistDom

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/11/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

May I ask why you're a long distance dom? What or who are you hiding from?

The name is simply referring to my experience, and to my capability to dom long distance. As I have stated on my profile, I have had multiple long distance relationships and sub/dom relations, and simply have yet to find someone close or that would relocate, etc. I won't lie, its an intimidating thought- but the welcoming of a pet after a long day at work to play with- be it snuggling or something sensual- is far more a fulfilling idea than any nervousness can beat.

_____________________________

Anyone can have a kinky fuck. It takes true passion for what you do to have kinky intimacy.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 32

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 3:12:54 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LongDistDom

Thanks, I was actually worried I had been doing it wrong the whole time...
I kind of have a secondary question to ask, would it be best to start with nothing but talk, moving slowly towards action, or just get to the point where you know what your partner will do anyways and then start?

I always just dated.

I did not engage in D/s, S&M or sex on the first meeting or on the first date. In fact, I usually dated awhile before I would do any of that. I made it clear to anybody that I met, that if they attempted to push me before I was ready...they'd end up alone.

There's a reason most D/s BDSM relationships only last an average of three months. It's because they confuse tingly genitals with actually liking the person, then three months into it the honeymoon phase is over and they realize that they really don't like the person they're with.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to LongDistDom)

Post #: 33

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 5:13:29 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

Playing the caveman right in the beginning could very well be an explanation for some very public battles being planned. Failure to know who people are beyond their "roles" means you are flying blind and as history shows, some signifcant problems likely resulted from the knowledge of each other.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)

Post #: 34

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 5:47:14 PM

Rasciallymisty

Posts: 5749
Joined: 4/16/2012
Status: offline

As some of the other subs have said, I date and get to know the man I am going to end up trusting my life with. I need to know there is much more than just the kink that we have in common. When you are planning a relationship with someone there had better be a lot more to what the two of you have, than the kink. I do the whole vanilla dating thing till we are both comfortable. It worked great for me and both the doms that have been in my life. You seem to have a good head on your shoulder so I am sure you will do what works best for you.

_____________________________

~misty~

Been here since 2004

Fear has two meanings: "Forget Everything And Run" or "Face Everything And Rise." The choice is yours!!!!!

(in reply to LongDistDom)

Post #: 35

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 6:16:28 PM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

Have you ever met any of these women in person? If it's totally online that could change a person's perception of 'action.'

_____________________________

(in reply to LongDistDom)

Post #: 36

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 7:55:56 PM

VideoAdminChi

Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline

This thread has been locked to give posters time to read my warning to stop with the Arturas and Tammy hijacks.

< Message edited by VideoAdminChi -- 3/16/2014 7:56:12 PM >

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 37

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/16/2014 8:24:18 PM

VideoAdminChi

Posts: 3086
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline

Half the posts on this thread have been removed. This is the third thread recently that has been hijacked with a dissection of posters' relationships. While I do understand the relevance of bringing up certain old threads in order to refute a poster, these continuous lengthy derails of the topic will not be permitted.

As a reminder, you may avail yourself of the Hide button.

If you have any questions you may CMail me, but please do not respond on this thread.

Please return to the topic:

quote:

My question, now, is: Subs, would you rather a Dom/Master talk and get to know you first, or learn you with actions?

(in reply to VideoAdminChi)

Post #: 38

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/17/2014 5:02:56 AM

theshytype

Posts: 1600
Status: offline

quote:

OP, do you YOUR way.

Great advice.

LongDistDom, it sounds to me like you're on the right track. You know what's comfortable for you but are aware enough to ask.

For myself, personally, I prefer knowledge with hints of action. Too fast, I'm going to feel pressured. When I feel pressured, I retreat.
Too slow, I might lose interest.
I have no set time frames, it's all about comfort level.
I'm the type, though, that questions authority. I can't respect or follow anyone, for anything, just because they carry a label, regardless of who gave it to them. I'll go through the actions, sure, but not when it comes to personal relationship. And while I'm an open book for the most part, there's things I don't divulge to just anyone. That takes time to reach that comfort level. How much time is dependent on the individual.

If I were up to casual relationships and was comfortable with everyone knowing about this part of me, I'd probably have said more action over knowledge or, at the very least, equal amounts of.

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)

Post #: 39

RE: Knowledge or Action? - 3/17/2014 7:19:03 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

If I was the dominant talking to a sub-type, looking for a long term relationship, I would specify that the first few meetings would be purely vanilla, to get to know the person. The kink can wait - after all, it isn't going anywhere.

I'm not one to want weeks and months of vanilla dating before diving into the kink. My two long term relationships started with one and two in person meets, then into the kink, but not to the exclusion of getting to know each other.

One doesn't exclude the other - you can, just like vanilla, get to know someone while having kinky sex. In fact, most vanilla relationships I had in my distant youth were sexual whilst learning each other.

It worked for me - really well. My first relationship lasted until the death of my dom, and my second is going on and going strong.
I don't know if it makes a difference, but being in my 50's makes it easier for me to choose my men. If they aren't what I want, I am self-aware enough to know that, and politely say so. I don't waste my time on men that aren't long term material.

(in reply to theshytype)

Post #: 40

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