Zonie63
Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
No one is forced to work at a specific place. Everyone chooses to work where they work. Ya'all might think that you have to be able to afford X, Y, and Z, or else you aren't getting paid enough. That's not true. There are almost always ways to reduce X, Y and Z to get within your budget. I know people who skipped cable so they could use those resources in areas they felt were more important. Just because you want X, Y, and Z doesn't mean your employer has to pay you enough to have them.
What you're saying is true, but isn't it also just as true from the other side as well? No one is forcing the employer to pay lousy wages. The employer could pay higher wages and do without X, Y, and Z himself, couldn't he/she? And if he/she doesn't do that, isn't it the employees' right to call him/her a cheap bastard?
Sure, they can quit their job, but they also have the right to carry a sign and call out cheapskates and skinflints in the business community - the same people who are undermining our economy and making America non-productive (which has been a very dangerous attitude all these decades considering the recent shift in world tensions).
quote:
You want a better job? Go get one. Or, better yet, go create one. And, the best solution would be to start your own company and offer the wages/benefits you would want to get paid. I'm sure your openings will be easy to fill, and, you'll also be able to take the better employees from your competition.
But, they don't do that. They bitch, piss, moan, whine, and whinge (Lucy's word... I don't really know exactly what it means  ) because it's easier.
Everybody has something about which they bitch, piss, whine, and "whinge" (which means "the arm of a bird"). Next time I'm in England, I'll ask for a bottle of "wing" and see what they bring me.
Seriously, though, I'll echo some of what you say here. I think if someone is truly unhappy in their job, they should quit and find a better job. There may not be any better jobs in a given area though. So, it's easier said than done.
Some of what you address may also be more related to our culture rather than anything directly to do with the economic or political system. A strong cultural phenomenon is to equate one's value and standing in society to one's income bracket, so when an employer pays such low wages to its workers, it sends the message that "you're not worth very much to us." That's probably very true, and an employer likely cares very little about how his/her workers feel or whether they earn enough to feed their families.
And perhaps that's all perfectly legal and within the tenets of the capitalist belief system. But then again, we're also part of a community, as are the business people who decide what their employees are worth. If they choose to be bad citizens and gut/exploit the local, state, or national economy for their own greedy purposes, then why should I be concerned about their "pissing, moaning, and whining" about governmental interference in the free market, higher taxes, tariffs, price controls, environmental laws, labor laws, or just about anything else they whine about.
But it's all just a pretense to cover up their greed, since it's all about their money, their profits, and what's in their wallet - all because they think they deserve to have enough money to get X, Y, and Z. And if any of that is threatened in any way, they go into "gloom and doom" mode, warning of enormous consequences, that the sky may fall in and that devil socialism will infect everyone's soul and turn us all into zombies.
I'm not really a bleeding heart, nor am I really into redistribution of wealth for its own sake. I don't really see it as a matter of an individual worker going out and finding a better job or getting better skills. Sure, that should definitely be encouraged, but I think we also need to look at this from the big picture and what is best for the overall good of the country right now.
The main problem I find with the free market/laissez faire position is that it argues too much from an abstract, theoretical standpoint, as if in a vacuum, disconnected and insulated from the political realities we face in this country and in the world at large. I find it to be too limited and short-sighted. I can understand all the arguments you're making, and that, from a certain point of view, they're perfectly valid and logical.
My view is that politics doesn't exist to adhere to an economic philosophy. Overall, I believe the goal should to promote harmony and civil order in society, not just give the rich free rein to screw the poor just to prove a point about our devotion to capitalism. As a nation, I think we should have more common sense than that, and not be so ideologically driven. It's not about being a bleeding heart or even about social justice (although that would be nice). I think it's more a matter of practical necessity than anything else. In the end, I think the needs of the country outweigh the needs of a few cheapskates and greedheads who mock the very ideals they pretend to uphold.
I admire your convictions and I respect your principles, but I think that we've discussed this before, and even you've said that we don't have the kind of political/economic system which would be your ideal. I can see that, maybe, if your ideals were implemented fairly, honestly, ethically, and consistently all throughout society, it could conceivably work. Of course, that can be said with anything.
But we're not really dealing with a systemic issue, are we? It's more a matter of the fabric of the nation right now and the prevailing culture of despair, apathy, malaise, greed, laziness, pride, hate, corruption. I think that our problems go beyond any kind of "quick fix" of the economic system (which won't be "quick" in any case). And yeah, there might be a lot of pissing, moaning, and whining along the way...and we can only hope that it doesn't escalate beyond that.
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