Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Do you think Crimea should be able to choose?


Yes Crimea should be able to choose
  52% (9)
No Crimea is part of Ukraine
  17% (3)
Unsure
  11% (2)
They did chose
  17% (3)


Total Votes : 17
(last vote on : 3/19/2014 9:25:54 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

Tkman117 -> Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 1:21:36 PM)

Regardless of the fact that the referendum was rigged to make it so that Russia would annex Crimea regardless of public opinion, what do you think? Should the people be allowed to choose?



Musicmystery -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 1:28:43 PM)

How do you figure the referendum was rigged?

Should the Iraqi and Turkish Kurds be allowed to form Kurdistan?

Should the Canadian and US Mohawks have their own cross border territory?

Should Texas be allowed to secede? Should Baja California be in California?

Should the Roma have their own state? Or the Weigers?

Should Bangladesh and Pakistan unite? Should Kashmir go to India or Pakistan?

Should Taiwan go back to China? Should the Panama Canal have gone back to Panama?

Should Kuwait go back to Iraq?

It's complicated. Both the Ukraine and Russia have a case.



Tkman117 -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 1:32:24 PM)

Read this, it explains that the 2nd question on the referendum is misleading as it makes people assume that the 1992 constitution states that Crimea was a part of Ukraine, when it actually didn't.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1209112/what-you-should-know-about-crimeas-referendum/



Musicmystery -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 1:41:04 PM)

Hardly "rigging." They have a choice nonetheless, and chose.

Seems the larger question is the legality of the referendum.

YOUR poll is rigged -- there's no option for "They did choose."



Kirata -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 1:49:26 PM)


~ FYI ~

Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

See also (Wikipedia):

Svoboda
Oleh Tyahnybok

K.




Tkman117 -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 1:50:37 PM)

Lol, easy pal, I was asking everyone else a question if they think they should be able to choose, regardless of whether it happened or not. Yes, they did choose, but should they have been able to and should their choice matter without the rest of their country's opinion taken into consideration?

But I agree that it wasn't technically rigged, poor choice of words on my part, but it was intentionally misleading, you can hardly deny that. And I agree with the whole question about whether other regions should be allowed to secede from parent countries and join others or form their own. Quebec has been wanting to separate from Canada for years, so I agree that it's a difficult situation, but it doesn't mean people aren't allowed to have opinions on these kind of things.



Tkman117 -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 1:56:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


~ FYI ~

Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

See also (Wikipedia):

Svoboda
Oleh Tyahnybok

K.




I'll admit thats a fairly compelling video. Especially considering the west's past history of installing their own puppet governments in other countries, the phone calls in the video don't really surprise me.



epiphiny43 -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 3:29:07 PM)

While there are actual ultra-rightists in most countries, the Russian disingenuous accusations are scatter shots at EVERY Eastern European and Russian ethnic group that had any group cohesiveness during the German invasion. ALL eagerly cooperated with the Germans to get rid of Stalin! Even Hitler looked a lot better. The Germans soon fixed that perception by acting as insanely arrogant racial chauvinists and alienating all the potential allies they had just 'liberated' from the USSR. Russians use this out of context to libel anyone not toeing their current government line.
The mass demonstrations in Kiev and other Ukrainian cities show the lie, huge crowds continued to show up after there was bloodshed by the existing govt. authorities. If these are the 'Nazis', they are a majority. Hardly a conceivable situation. The demonstrations were precipitated by a regime turn Away from the Western democracies' economic union, hardly a refuge for ultra-nationalists with all the attendant regulation from the EU being in the economic union entails.
The Crimea will soon regret it's choice, the economic present and future of Russia and it's repressive govt. and corrupt economic system under Putin will soon be realized as a Really bad choice. The many Russians living in the Ukraine who have gone on the net to point out the freedom and economic differences being Why they live there instead of Mother Russia are illuminating.



blacksword404 -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 3:42:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Regardless of the fact that the referendum was rigged to make it so that Russia would annex Crimea regardless of public opinion, what do you think? Should the people be allowed to choose?


They should be able to choose. But it isn't going to come down to that. It's going to come down to how strong the countries are that support it. It's political. Not about whether it's right for or not but about who wants it to happen and who doesn't. If we wanted Crimea sovereign we would be right there braying about "the voice of the people speaking" and peoples votes being respected. But as it turns out we don't want them sovereign. So we won't say anything like that.



RottenJohnny -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 3:44:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

Well, Kirata, I started watching this video but got sidetracked when they showed YouTube screenshots for Svoboda and I noticed a clip on the right that said "Ukraine Got Talent - The world's best pole dancer - Anastasia Sokolova". After seeing that, I totally didn't care about Crimea anymore. Sorry about that. Don't mean to diss your vid but boys will be boys. [:)]

BTW...Anastasia Sokolova...totally worth the distraction. Sweet!

(edit for spelling)




Kirata -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 3:56:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

Well, Kirata, I started watching this video but got sidetracked when they showed YouTube screenshots for Svoboda and I noticed a clip on the right that said "Ukraine Got Talent - The world's best pole dancer - Anastasia Sokolo". After seeing that, I totally didn't care about Crimea anymore. Sorry about that. Don't mean to diss your vid but boys will be boys. [:)]

BTW...Anastasia Sokolo...totally worth the distraction. Sweet!

Way ahead of ya, bro! [:D]

K.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 4:06:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

Well, Kirata, I started watching this video but got sidetracked when they showed YouTube screenshots for Svoboda and I noticed a clip on the right that said "Ukraine Got Talent - The world's best pole dancer - Anastasia Sokolo". After seeing that, I totally didn't care about Crimea anymore. Sorry about that. Don't mean to diss your vid but boys will be boys. [:)]
BTW...Anastasia Sokolo...totally worth the distraction. Sweet!

Way ahead of ya, bro! [:D]
K.


Damn. I loved the look on the guys faces who were beside women that they feel are important in their lives. It was a mix of "OMFG!" and "I hope I'm not punished for watching this." There were some quite interesting faces on the women, too. [:D]



RottenJohnny -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 4:46:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

Well, Kirata, I started watching this video but got sidetracked when they showed YouTube screenshots for Svoboda and I noticed a clip on the right that said "Ukraine Got Talent - The world's best pole dancer - Anastasia Sokolo". After seeing that, I totally didn't care about Crimea anymore. Sorry about that. Don't mean to diss your vid but boys will be boys. [:)]
BTW...Anastasia Sokolo...totally worth the distraction. Sweet!

Way ahead of ya, bro! [:D]
K.


Damn. I loved the look on the guys faces who were beside women that they feel are important in their lives. It was a mix of "OMFG!" and "I hope I'm not punished for watching this." There were some quite interesting faces on the women, too. [:D]


The female judge sure seemed into it. [:)]



VideoAdminGamma -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 5:18:35 PM)

Fast reply

I have pulled several violations and the replies to them.

Please do not hijack the topic or make personal attacks. Those that have a history of this may find themselves on moderation without further warning.

If you have any questions please contact me or Chi. Do not reply to this post.

Thanks for being a part of CollarMe,
Gamma



VideoAdminChi -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 7:22:32 PM)

quote:

YOUR poll is rigged -- there's no option for "They did choose."


Added!



cloudboy -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 8:21:39 PM)

It is not like the Ukraine is a high functioning state. I'm kind of intrigued by Russia's attempt to turn back the clock to soviet methods of information control in the internet age with a more open society and economy.

Also, on a different note, I have read that Putin's popularity has sky-rocketed at home. Nationalists love wars and territorial expansion. From the Russian POV, getting the Crimea probably represents just compensation for losing Eastern Europe and the Baltic states.



kdsub -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 8:34:02 PM)

I voted no...but...Only because of Russia's interference. I believe the Crimea was an autonomous state before the unrest. Much in the same way the Kurds in Iraq. I believe the way to have done this was for the Crimea to petition the new government in the Ukraine for a cession vote without Russian threats. Russia's enabling and support of nationalistic militias that has made the vote suspect.

Butch



TheHeretic -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 8:59:44 PM)

I went with, "they did choose." How much weight that will be given in the final outcome remains to be seen.

This isn't happening in a vacuum. There was a good bit of unpleasant chaos in Ukraine leading up to it, and I think that has to be taken into account to have a reasoned discussion.

I'm also curious if there was some sort of vote before Crimea was "given" to Ukraine back in the 1950's. Anybody know? (I'm guessing there wasn't, but I could be wrong - and I'm likely to be more skeptical of a Soviet dictatorship era vote being a square deal anyway).



Kirata -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 9:08:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

quote:

YOUR poll is rigged -- there's no option for "They did choose."


Added!

Maybe combine the "did choose" and "should be able" to choose?

Otherwise, I want to vote twice! [:D]

K.



MercTech -> RE: Do you think Crimea should be able to choose? (3/18/2014 10:05:30 PM)

Crimea actually voted to leave Ukraine and join Russia in the 1850s.

This led to the Crimean War. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

Does this sound familiar?

quote:

Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:


Charge of the Light Brigade was written by Tennyson about the Battle of Balaclava during the Crimean War.
http://poetry.eserver.org/light-brigade.html



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