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Head Games? - 7/8/2006 4:28:46 AM

twicehappy

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After reading the thread that KnightofMists started i began wondering about a few things as related to the head games that go along with the more obvious physical games we play by participating in this lifestyle. I decided to ask everybody how they view this aspect of our existence.

What are some of the emotional and psychological issues in bdsm, TPE, M/s or D/s?

What do you Doms/Dommes out there consider to be your responsibilities to the ones you own or play with?

How do you insure their mental well being? After all unless you are engaged in one time only play everything you do will impact the psyche of your partner in one form or another.

Do you consider yourself adept at gauging their emotional responses to how you are handling both the day to day issues and the scene related ones?

Subs/slaves, how well do you think your owners/play partners are handling this aspect of WIITWD ?

What is it that you notice that tells you your partner is as careful with your mind as they are with your body?

What do you consider to be warning signs that something is not quite right?

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

Post #: 1

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 6:33:30 AM

SusanofO

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I had to respond to this topic, as it was getting pushed way down the line and it's way too good a topic (I think) to not get a response (even if it is early in the day).

I am not experienced enough to answer this very well, but one issue I can possibly foresee in bdsm relationships is becoming very emotionally attached to someone because of emotionally laying oneself so very open to another. I know that seems like it would be the goal (for many, including, eventually, myself) but - there is another thread on the "Ask A Submissive" forum right now that asks what to do when-if this "becomes a problem". Personally, I didn't have the answer (outside of maybe stating the usual: "All relationships contain risk", etc.) but I said I'd certainly be interested in hearing some from experienced people on this thread topic, too (or people with well-thought out opinions, anyway).

Part of the attraction, for me (besides being "wired this way", probably, to bdsm actvitiy) - is that it can allow (my opinion) for a much deeper level of emotional intimacy with someone than maybe could be found in a "vanilla" relationship.

One issue I see then is:
This seems it could become an area of concern if the people involved were not committed to really getting to know their partner(s) emotional needs (notice I did not say desires, for in some situations, or for slaves, or even submissives, maybe those willl not always be seen as "needing to be met"? ). But in any case trying hard to fulfill their emotional needs (physical too, of course).

Hopefully, that might include side-stepping wanton use and discardment of someone (unless, in some cirucumstances, they were "into that" or wanted just a "fling"). I know it happens, but I am assuming that awareness of the possibility (on both sides) might make it less likely.

I am sure other people have more to add on this topic. I know my answer could be more delineated than it is, but I am not very bdsm experienced, and also kind tired just now (but it's a good topic twicehappy, I think, and I'll sure check back and read the responses later).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/8/2006 6:52:04 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 2

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 6:39:24 AM

bandit25

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I can only tell you what I have experienced. Our play consists mostly of rope bondage which we both love. He is VERY watchful of my expressions and the changes in my voice. If something is too tight or the knot hits me in the wrong place, He may tell me to stop complaining, but HE ALWAYS adjusts it. I tend to panic at times and He is always there to calm me down...speak to me in a low, soothing voice until I calm down. Play stops until I have adjusted to whatever or whatever is changed. That is how I know he is careful with my mind as well as my body.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 3

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 6:49:51 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Subs/slaves, how well do you think your owners/play partners are handling this aspect of WIITWD ?

He knows putting me into subspace is as much mental as physical. In fact it is mostly mental. He is adept at it

What is it that you notice that tells you your partner is as careful with your mind as they are with your body?
He is careful with all of me.. I can tell in the manner he treats me. He is very kind and considerate

What do you consider to be warning signs that something is not quite right?
Hmmmm, I had to stop a scene once because my head was swimming and my stomach dropped.... I guess I physically knew I had to stop even though I had just started enjoying the better sensations... If I hadn't said anything he would have still stopped, he was talking to me to ascertain my wellness to continue.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/8/2006 6:52:11 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 4

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 7:03:10 AM

sleazybutterfly

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I know that when I am in a D/s relationship.. I probably open up myself more emotionally and let the walls fall down. I am not sure if I do this because I am expected to be totally an open book... or just because of the supposed roles in the relationship that I think it is a safe thing to do.

I have found though that I am too open..and those things that I was emotionally open with them about.. are usually not good when it ends. It gives them the ammunition to use against you.. they know what to say to hurt you the most.. or even during the relationship..what not to say.

This is a fight I will have with myself for any new relationships I get in down the road. What do I share? What do I open up about? How far in do I let them? There is being open..and then there will have to be a bit of defense on my part... until it is proven to me..that they know how to take care of what is Theirs.

Just from my experience is all I can tell though.

Respectfully, Andrea

_____________________________

~Flutterby
~Curvylicious
Just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly.
Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 5

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 7:09:44 AM

LaTigresse

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2x, thank you for creating this thread. I hope that alot of Dom/inas with alot more experience than I reply. This has always been the most important part of WIITWD for me. It is the primary reason for my not wanting to rush into anything. For me, I feel the need to really get to know the person first. I don't have very much hands on experience but I do see the potential for mistakes I could make causing alot of damage. That being said, I feel that the better I know someone the better I will be able to guage their reactions and know their individual nuances. I think comunication on all levels is the most important thing for me.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 6

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 11:22:15 AM

twicehappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

but one issue I can possibly foresee in bdsm relationships is becoming very emotionally attached to someone because of emotionally laying oneself so very open to another. I know that seems like it would be the goal (for many, including, eventually, myself) but - there is another thread on the "Ask A Submissive" forum right now that asks what to do when-if this "becomes a problem

Susan, for me that extra bond is also the goal and i've been following that thread with interest. You do lay yourself bare to possible hurt in any dom/sub relationship. I am curious to see what kinds of problems others have had in this area.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

This is a fight I will have with myself for any new relationships I get in down the road. What do I share? What do I open up about? How far in do I let them? There is being open..and then there will have to be a bit of defense on my part... until it is proven to me..that they know how to take care of what is Theirs.

Having had to start over I have a grasp of the difficulties involved in opening yourself up again. I was in the same collar for 18 years, now after years of searching i am in another, it has been long enough that i cannot say it is new yet i find myself occasionally struggling with what parts that i have kept closed do i lay bare.

Do not get me wrong, i do not believe my owners would in any way hurt me, i trust them implicitly. It is just after so long in the same collar it sometimes seems strange to think about it. And i know i can be very defensive which causes problems until they figure out that is what is happening and i figure out why.

I cannot say it is about knowing that they care for what they own, i know they do. I think possibly sometimes i expect them to know things they could not only because i was with someone who did for so long.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I feel that the better I know someone the better I will be able to guage their reactions and know their individual nuances. I think comunication on all levels is the most important thing for me.

Perfectly said and also perfectly true, you may claim to lack experience but you have the correct ideas here, thank you.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 7

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 12:08:17 PM

MistressSassy66

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The emotional and psychological issues are too many for Me to answer.

My responsibilities are to keep them safe while they are here.Guide them when needed.

I ask if they are okay.I have them sit and talk to Me about what they liked or didnt and why.

Yes I am adept.

Warning signs can be a change in breathing or knees bending(like they are buckeling).The eyes can give off warning signs as does the sounds the submissive makes,a groan sounds different than a moan.

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 8

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 12:29:24 PM

LadiesBladewing

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This is my specific job in our household -- the mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being of both servant and owner. I am an ordained minister, with supplemental training in mediation and pastoral care. I consider it both a duty and an honor to be responsible for both working to prevent crises, and cleaning up the mess when crises happen (which they will, no matter how careful people are, in long-term relationships). I also enjoy the process of helping our servants to rise to their full potential as servants and as individuals, and assisting switches and those transitioning from servant to guide with the mental and emotional aspects of their change.

I work inside our enclave, but I also provide alternative-lifestyle-sensitive services outside of our enclave as well, to members of the community who need care, but are unable to find caregivers who are aware of the depth and breadth within the community and/or are able to assist with problems -within- the context of the alternative choices they've made, rather than expecting that if the person is just "normalized" the problem will go away.

SR enjoys some forms of dominance that make it convenient to have a pastoral care provider in the household, since she enjoys humiliation and mind-games. No matter what activity one participates in, especially in the context of extended D/s relationships where certain behaviors might be repeated over long periods of time, or certain triggers might be exposed more often or more deeply. It is good to have the facilities for frequent 'cleanups', rather than just as a one-shot, "oops" type situation.

ZWD

< Message edited by LadiesBladewing -- 7/8/2006 12:30:37 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Head Games? - 7/8/2006 5:26:30 PM

twicehappy

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You never cease to amaze me, it is good to hear there are those among us who do outreach to others in the lifestyle.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LadiesBladewing)

Post #: 10

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 6:26:35 AM

LaTigresse

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2X, I had to search for this thread again because I wanted to keep track of it and it touched me.I agree that it is a beautiful thing to see that there are those that would reach out to others in need rather than always have it be "all about them" "what can you do for me". While I am not actively involved in a R/T BDSM comunity, there is no such thing in my little corner of the world as far as I know......I am sure that which LBW and her partner provide is a definate need.
Not to derail but LBW, I have paid closer attention to your posts and damn I wish you were not so far away. I think that you would be an awsome person to spend time with and get to know.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 11

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 6:53:10 AM

twicehappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have paid closer attention to your posts and damn I wish you were not so far away. I think that you would be an awsome person to spend time with and get to know.

LaTigresse, i thank you for the compliment. I would love to know your soul better also. Know this from all of our house; You would always be most welcome to visit anytime. Drop any of us a line and come down to visit we would love to meet you. There are some here on the boards who have and none left as anything less than a valued friend and welcomed guest.

Su serve vai Domina, you lend us grace.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 12

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 7:10:38 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have paid closer attention to your posts and damn I wish you were not so far away. I think that you would be an awsome person to spend time with and get to know.

LaTigresse, i thank you for the compliment. I would love to know your soul better also. Know this from all of our house; You would always be most welcome to visit anytime. Drop any of us a line and come down to visit we would love to meet you. There are some here on the boards who have and none left as anything less than a valued friend and welcomed guest.

Su serve vai Domina, you lend us grace.

You are a sweetheart and thank you very much. The offer is also extended in reverse. It's not a big house but we always find room for friends.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 13

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 9:04:39 AM

KennelDeSade2

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Everything I do is in service of creation of the desired mindest. You could call it headgames if you desired. Every little paintbrush, volt, amp, degree of burning alcohol, flogger fall, red handprint, and delayed climax is to create the mental effect I am after. Because in the end, it's all in your head.

_____________________________

Rules? Just one: I say, she does.
Everything else, is just details.

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Post #: 14

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 2:58:07 PM

twicehappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2

Because in the end, it's all in your head.

Lol, time after time i answered as many of you have while filling out profiles on various sites this question;

"What is your favorite sex toy?"

My answer was invariably;

"The human mind".

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to KennelDeSade2)

Post #: 15

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 5:44:45 PM

twicehappy

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Thank you LaTigresse from all of us, this means much and speaks volumes about you and yours.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 16

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 6:53:09 PM

Kree

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What are some of the emotional and psychological issues in bdsm, TPE, M/s or D/s?

I don’t feel that the emotional and psychological issues are vastly different between the lifestyle and vanilla. It is in the manner in which we approach the issues and the intensity of the issues. If someone has the desire to serve and to please, a vanilla partner will damage that person by being overly critical or ignoring their efforts, just as someone into TPE etc will damage them. I would hope that because of the intensity of a lifestyle relationship people would spend the time to examine and explore the emotional and psychological issues before causing damage to a partner.

I think the primary emotional and psychological issues in the lifestyle have to do with the desire to be a partner in a relationship. Some will avoid their issues and mask them for fear that divulging them interfere with their search. Eventually, they will feel the pain much deeper when their deception is uncovered and the relationship ends because of the deceit. Some come to the lifestyle emotionally wounded and feel it will heal them. It won’t. I feel that the intensity of these relationships magnifies those wounds and makes them worse. In the worst case, a manipulative dominant can use the unhealed emotional and psychological issues to prevent healing for their own benefit. Some feel a sense of power that their private life has never afforded them and take advantage of the emotions offered them in a very unhealthy manner. A loser is still a loser, even if they have found someone desperate enough to make them feel like a winner.

What do you Doms/Dommes out there consider to be your responsibilities to the ones you own or play with?
I feel we have a responsibility to KNOW those we own or play with. By knowing them, I mean spending the time to understand their past, their current condition/situation, and their dreams and desires for the future. We have the responsibility to listen. I feel we have the responsibility to be honest and open with them in the same way we expect that honesty and openness from them. I think we have the responsibility to respect the power we have and use it for the benefit of both, not for just our instant gratification. Obviously there is a difference between being in a relationship and just playing. If we are talking just play, we have the responsibility to understand their limits and to respect those limits. If the point is to push limits, I feel they should understand before play begins that pushing will happen. If there is something from the past that might trigger a panic response or be psychologically or emotionally harmful, we have the responsibility to ask the right questions. If they give the wrong answers or hide things, we have the responsibility to observe them and focus on them during play to watch for the signs of a problem.

_____________________________

Author of "Nytewhispers"

Power whispers, it has no reason to yell

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Post #: 17

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 7:22:48 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear twicehappy, Ladies and Gentlemen;

In my mind's eye and experiences on both sides, I am keen on how the mind is the drive as well as the spirit. Our mind controls so very much as well as one's will.

When I use head game's or the mental realm, I am dealing with more inside core elements to which I must tread even more carefully than using a barb wire or chain flail. Mind is shared space. Host's mind is always the guide and I'm the one who steers and paces. Slave mind is going forward but, my duty is to regulate how far. This is why it is important to negotiate and find what 'baggage' and fears may lurk. Emotional and mental 'landmines' hidden or surpressed.

Another responsibility and something I do, is establish the boundaries. Nothing extends beyond the scene. When that scene is done--the mind and emotions return back to the host (slave). That said, even after the scene is done, my responsibilities and awareness are not done. Minutes, hours, days, weeks may go by and "BAM" the slave has a replay of the scene and they can go back into that place at any time. Sometimes it is without warning. Just like horrible nightmares or with extreme pleasure and state of unmatched bliss.

Because the mind processes senses, sense of self, sense of awareness in time and space, processes logic, fear, happiness, temperature, triggers the body in so many ways, the cascade of a waterfall per se is what a dominant is dealing with. The mind can be a dominant's power to harm or heal a slave/submissive or servant. Catharsis is very mental and emotion but, it cannot happen until the slave opens themself to the most tender, raw and vunerable state of 'self' as to allow the purging and renewal process and or going off into space and beyond, traveling regions never thought of and safely return to reality and unharmed. What is planted with a dominant's visit in what might be termed 'mind game' will be within the subconscious or subliminal mind. This is why as a dominant, I only wish to leave it in a pleasant state.

Dominants should act as an invited guest into the mental realm and or in mind games, not as a tyrant. Cleaning up after themselves as they leave the mental realm of another and gently close the door.

My general rules per se, is deal with negatives first, such as errors, corrections and the like and give pleasure thereafter, such as praise, pointing out the good of things and how wonderful the slave is. To me, the last words remembered are the most powerful so, for me--I want them positive and loving.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 18

RE: Head Games? - 7/10/2006 7:40:29 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear twicehappy, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I do apologize for omitting the warning signs.

Men and women are different. That said; there are several 'rings' of passage in the mental realm. When they are out there, the body usually changes color, temperature, weight drops, facial expressions drop the whole body gets heavy. Then there is a phase to which they appear as statues, inside their own self and out of body per se.
breathing patterns shallow, their skin changes color, eyes sometimes close and flutter similar to dream state. Some phases the person is much like a drunk, slurred speach, unsteady, mumble odd things, face gets flush, body cold and clammy. Some phases are getting light headed and weak, dizzy and unbalanced, the slave will start panic grabbing, so sometimes the slave will pass out for a moment and very suddenly. I do make sure I have panic release bondage clips but my favorite is on the rack and, do be prepared to catch somebody when they start dropping down. Be mindful of the sudden drop can yank shoulders and dislocate them, this is when help is so wonderful, e.g. dungeon masters/monitors, other people. Having a pair of scissors handy to cut the rope is also good.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 19

RE: Head Games? - 7/11/2006 3:54:15 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kree

What are some of the emotional and psychological issues in bdsm, TPE, M/s or D/s?

I I would hope that because of the intensity of a lifestyle relationship people would spend the time to examine and explore the emotional and psychological issues before causing damage to a partner.

An excellent observation here, i would hope so also and this is why when questioned by those who are unsure of themselves and are looking for a partner my first caution is be careful whom you choose to submit too, you are giving them free access to your mind.

quote:

In the worst case, a manipulative dominant can use the unhealed emotional and psychological issues to prevent healing for their own benefit. Some feel a sense of power that their private life has never afforded them and take advantage of the emotions offered them in a very unhealthy manner.

But in a best case scenario(i have seen this)the dominant can guide the submissive into a healthier better balanced human being and heal much damage in the submissive soul.

quote:

A loser is still a loser, even if they have found someone desperate enough to make them feel like a winner.

So true, and it is folks of this ilk that are generally at the root of things that happen such as the unfortunate mess that started Knights thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dominants should act as an invited guest into the mental realm and or in mind games, not as a tyrant. Cleaning up after themselves as they leave the mental realm of another and gently close the door.

I do not think i have ever seen this so simply or eloquently put, thank you LH.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Kree)

Post #: 20

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