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Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/21/2014 9:53:32 PM

subbibear

Posts: 46
Joined: 3/2/2014
Status: offline

Here I am reaching out to a dominant, someone I have known for 28 years at least. I didn't realize he was into D/s relationships until he found me on here last night and sent me a message. We have a history as vanilla playmates from long ago. I read his profile and BAM this is someone who I could be compatible with in a serious way. We had been separated by distance for the past 25 years.

So I decided to send him a message laying it all out, my desire to pursue a possible D/s relationship, the kinds of things I like to do, the limits I have, my understanding of submission and domination, how I understand it will take time to build trust and determine compatibility, and to my mind importantly - that I will definitely want to remain friends with him whether he decides to join with me in exploring our compatibility with regard to a 24/7 D/s relationship or not.

I laid out my kinks in detail, the actions sure, but also the concepts behind them and how they get into my head and get me off mentally. I tried to be thorough. In my opinion as a submissive reaching out to a dominant I need to let him know what frame of possibilities he has to work with, where I am able to push up against my soft limits and try new things, where there are possible triggers for my PTSD, ways to effectively push my buttons to get me off.

From my perspective at this point in the negotiation there is no such thing as too much information. So knowing that there are some things that I am passionate about but that he has no experience with I also mentioned them and my willingness to help him learn to effectively practice those things and see if they are things that he will enjoy also or not.

So I have composed this long message and made sure to read and proof read it twice. And having pushed send, and the message now in his inbox I am left wondering if I am a pushy bottom or an assertive submissive. And sitting here thinking it over out loud as I write this post I have to choose the latter. Because I am not anyone's submissive now, I am an independent person with agency and I owe it to myself and to anyone I might become involved with to be as open and honest as possible about my thinking, my desires, my philosophy and my submission as possible.

So I guess I have sort of answered my own question. But any feedback would be appreciated.

Post #: 1

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/21/2014 10:11:48 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

To be fair, I'm not a submissive, so this might not be My place to say.

For what it's worth, if tk wouldn't have been the one to say he wanted something more with Me, I wouldn't have had these past five months with him. I'd have never had this incredible thing that has been so spectacular in My life. If *he* wouldn't have taken a chance, I'd have missed out on so much.

There's nothing wrong with reaching out to try to get the brass ring. You never know. It could turn out to be something wonderful.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 2

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/21/2014 10:21:32 PM

FrostedFlake

Posts: 3084
Joined: 3/4/2009
From: Centralia, Washington
Status: offline

You might have said too much, too soon. Letting one shoe drop, waiting for a reaction, then dropping the other shoe is a popular way to go. But then again, maybe you did it just fine.

In any case, LadyPact is quite right. A man doesn't get what he doesn't ask for.

I hope it works out for you.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 3

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/21/2014 10:26:52 PM

Toysinbabeland

Posts: 1693
Joined: 3/4/2012
From: the other end of Cx's leash
Status: offline

You can't get what you want if you don't try.
Who doesn't want their sub to be happy or pleased with serving them.
Really, whether He wants you or not, your earnest try should flatter His ego.
Your intentions were good, so why worry?

_____________________________

*Smitten fox* that's all you need.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 4

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/21/2014 10:36:25 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbibear
I am left wondering if I am a pushy bottom or an assertive submissive.

I can't imagine why either of those two labels would apply. Let's be clear, as it sits right now there is a power structure of exactly ONE. That's you. You have nothing to push against and nobody to assert against. My ego is not so weak that I can't handle a little bit of assertiveness in a sub. In fact I don't really care about that at all. For me the word I care about is "malleability".

On a different note, you can be someone who sits on the sidelines of life or you can reach for the brass ring. Good on you for choosing wisely.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 5

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 1:23:28 AM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
Status: offline

Well personally, I get that submissives like to have the Dom take charge and make the first move etc... But honestly, I'm a bit tired of making the first move, partly because my moves suck... I duno there is the feeling of conquest when u go after what you want to... But honestly, some of the most submissive ppl I've been with have made the first move. Sure there are also those who would just sit there never trying... But i think going after what you want is fine!

The relationship will settle into whatever the two peoples natures make of it anyway, no matter how they get together, IMO.

_____________________________

530 DAYS

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 6

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 5:30:46 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

I don't think either of those terms apply in this situation. As a general rule in life, you don't get what you don't pursue, very few have great relationship just fall into their laps.

Did you give him too much info? You'll find out. But you know, you have to be YOU, most especially in the beginning of a relationship when you might feel a strong urge to pretend to be someone else b/c you're so worried and nervous about what the other person is thinking.

Really, you can't go there. Be you, and you attract those who like YOU. And that's great stuff.

_____________________________

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 7

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 6:38:16 AM

Domnotlooking

Posts: 249
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

Question: Has this person expressed likewise interest in a relationship with you?

It's not clear from what you've said. If he has not, if it's just been a renewal of contact and and a quick PM exchange, you may be jumping the gun a bit. But no biggie, we regret what we hold back much more than what we give.

If he has, then he is a very, very lucky Master.

My partner had never thought much about submission before we met, but when I told her that TTWD was essential to a romantic partnership for me, she thought long and hard about it and spoke from the heart about what it would mean to her to give herself over and voiced her concerns, early in. It really impressed me that she acted in such honest good faith.

Since you've gone the extra mile and outlined thing so explicitly, it speaks really well of you as a giving partner and foretells a great relationship success, assuming you are both on the same page.

You are an exceptional person, a rare submissive, and you are destined for happiness, either with this good man or someone else.

< Message edited by Domnotlooking -- 3/22/2014 6:39:16 AM >

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 8

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 7:11:41 AM

subbibear

Posts: 46
Joined: 3/2/2014
Status: offline

Well let me just start off by saying thank you to everyone who took the time and effort to reply. I really do appreciate it. I did struggle with the idea that I might have said too much too soon. But as many of you pointed out, good things don't generally just fall into our laps. Yes it did start off as just a friendly reunion after not contacting each other for many years, but I felt very strongly that there was the potential for something more.

So the verdict came in late last night. His response was a cautiously optimistic one. He and I shared a concern that we might have an existing interpersonal dynamic that could interfere with establishing as new D/s dynamic but we both feel it is worth trying it out to see what happens. We both agree that we do not wish to damage our friendship in any case. We agreed that we seem to be kink/sex compatible. We talked on the phone last night for a long time and it appears that our 'issues' or 'baggage' if you will, is not bad enough to prevent making a go of it. He admitted that he had the same notion yesterday afternoon after we had reconnected. And finally, he expressed his gratitude that I had taken the time and put the thought and effort into writing out such a detailed letter.

Thank you again everyone.

(in reply to Domnotlooking)

Post #: 9

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 7:16:30 AM

Domnotlooking

Posts: 249
Joined: 8/11/2013
Status: offline

Very few relationships are entered into as consciously as you two are doing. Whatever the eventual outcome, you two are already a success.

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 10

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 7:21:32 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domnotlooking

Very few relationships are entered into as consciously as you two are doing. Whatever the eventual outcome, you two are already a success.

Yep, this was pretty much my take.

It seems to me, subbibear, that you did absolutely the right thing and that as Jeff said.. it's not a question at this point of being too assertive or topping from the bottom. You laid out what you're looking for, and what you have to offer - If everyone did that there'd be a lot more happy endings here.

I wish you the very best.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Domnotlooking)

Post #: 11

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 7:27:07 AM

Blonderfluff

Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline

OP

I popped in late, and see that your CMail was the right move. That is wonderful. Please come back and keep us updated!
You have actually made me think about altering my MO on the other side. I may actually reach out to a D the next time I read or see someone that resonates with me in some way. Food for thought, at any rate...

_____________________________

Don't fear moving forward slowly...fear standing still.

I'm Blonde. Jane Blonde.

(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 12

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 8:02:15 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

That is such great news. Congrats!

_____________________________

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 13

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 8:24:36 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbibear
Thank you again everyone.

Your welcome.

And oh yeah... "YAY!"

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 14

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 9:45:16 AM

Blueswordsman

Posts: 173
Joined: 10/3/2011
Status: offline

Good Luck!

< Message edited by Blueswordsman -- 3/22/2014 9:47:19 AM >

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 15

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 9:50:12 AM

frunandsins

Posts: 81
Joined: 10/7/2012
Status: offline

Glad it all worked out for you, subbibear.

Speaking from a Dom's perspective, I wouldn't mind the details, provided that the tone is right. It *can* come across as pushy and that can be a turn off. But walking that line between assertive and pushy is always hard, inside or outside of BDSM.

At any rate, hope the relationship develops into something that makes both of you happy. :)

_____________________________

To each, their own kinks, and may they suffer beautifully.

(in reply to Blueswordsman)

Post #: 16

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 11:05:20 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Thank you for the update. I'll second that "yay" comment.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to frunandsins)

Post #: 17

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 11:18:38 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

nm

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 3/22/2014 11:19:15 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

Post #: 18

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 11:21:36 AM

subbibear

Posts: 46
Joined: 3/2/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: frunandsins

Speaking from a Dom's perspective, I wouldn't mind the details, provided that the tone is right. It *can* come across as pushy and that can be a turn off. But walking that line between assertive and pushy is always hard, inside or outside of BDSM.

Leaving my personal situation aside, the issue of pushy vs assertive is, I think, a challenge for submissives who are looking for dominants. Tone certainly is important as frunandsins points out. I guess I see it as comparable to giving someone a menu in a fine dining establishment. The menu always comes with detailed information from the server so that the guest is able to make an informed decision about what items they want to enjoy that visit.

Anyone can spit out a list of hard limits, and that is an important thing to include, but nuance is required as well. What are the soft limits? What are the ways a sub could be lead safely up against those soft limits and helped to expand their horizons and grow?

Anyone can spill forth a list of fantasies or a history of their favorite scenes with past dominants, but what the dominant who you are seeking needs to know is what you enjoy and why you enjoy it. The dominant needs to know what about these behaviors make your mind trigger pleasure, how you understand them as acts of submission. So instead of laying out just a scene idea about being expected to edge yourself and then being told when to orgasm, a submissive needs to talk about what elements of submission they are getting out of it. Is it objectification? Obedience? Loss of autonomy? How is this action fulfilling the submissive's need to please the dominant?

Sure it is good to give them the menu, but the details about the menu items, how they work and why, that is what makes it assertive rather than pushy, I think. Once the dominant has all the facts in hand, and is armed with the details of how the submissive's brain is working, then the dominant is able to lead, control and dominate from a position of informed power. Giving up the knowledge of how you think and what drives your submission and sexuality is the first step in the power exchange- IMHO. It is a step of trust. In my little world, dominants do not take power, submissives give it away. Dominants are then left with the responsibility to use it judiciously in leading the couple or group or family or den towards growth and happiness.

Pushy would be just talking about all the things you want the dominant to do to you. And really, at that point, what you are looking for is a top more than a dominant, because you have not actually given up any power in the first place.

IMHO YMMV etc etc

(in reply to frunandsins)

Post #: 19

RE: Pushy Bottom vs Assertive Submissive - 3/22/2014 12:01:46 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subbibear
Pushy would be just talking about all the things you want the dominant to do to you. And really, at that point, what you are looking for is a top more than a dominant, because you have not actually given up any power in the first place.

Sort of.... I don't mind Carol telling me about all of her dreams and hopes and desires and whatnot. In fact I like that sort of thing seeing as I love the woman. For me you'd have to go further than just "talk" before it got to be pushy. It'd have to be some sort of talk with the desire to manipulate or... well... push me in a given direction... a strong desire.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to subbibear)

Post #: 20

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