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frunandsins -> RE: hetro male slaves (3/26/2014 9:15:10 PM)
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Re: Goddess Manko
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A man hiding under the guise of heterosexuality while enjoying such activities is a user and a phony. And grotesque to me because of the fraud, lying and deception attached.
Are you implying that a man who enjoys different types of anal stimulation cannot be heterosexual? That's what this sentence reads to me, when you accuse them of fraud and deceit. So if a man wants his gf/mistress/Domme to fuck him with a dildo or a strap-on, he's no longer heterosexual, in your estimation? Or did you mean to say anal sex with other men and just didn't spell it out?
Because, honestly, if you're saying that a man cannot enjoy anal sex and be straight at the same time, then I would have to consider that a very ignorant opinion.
Re: freedomdwarf1
quote:
I don't agree.
I still maintain, from my own perspective and personal experience (been swinging since the mid 1990's), that the majority of "straight" men (and that's the important bit that is the crux of the debate) just don't view the receiving of anal attention to be at all pleasurable in any way shape or form.
I believe you will find that I have already agreed with this statement. So I am not sure why you're re-stating it yet again as if we were in disagreement.
quote:
Ishtar's personal stats show that 70% of their male playmates did not enjoy it either.
Yes, and I provided counter-examples from my friends. Maybe other Dommes and sub men will speak up here, too, and provide other data.
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And I strongly believe that more than a very good percentage of "straight" men actually baulk at the very idea of receiving anal play of any sort, let alone actual insertions.
Again, I agree.
But I suspect you're conflating two issues - balking at the idea and not being able to enjoy it. In a community discussion board set up around the practice of sado-masochism, it astounds me that people are so quick to conclude that the activity that the submissive would not want to experience must also be devoid of pleasure to them when actually administered. Spanking, needle play, predicament bondage, and all the other types of activities probably receive a balking response, too, in many subs at the early stages of their servitude. Do you also conflate that reluctance to try it with inability to derive pleasure from it?
Pleasure is a subjective experience, and doubly so in BDSM where the submissives are asked to transform the unpleasantness into pleasure by their will to please their Doms/Dommes. In the other thread about the new Dom asking for masochistic spanking playmate, the resounding response was that he needed to train his slave so that they're willing to take on the pain to please him - it is one of the foundational principles of BDSM to transform pain into pleasure, or to experience pain physically but to derive pleasure psychologically.
So yes, the vast majority of straight men will balk at the concept and will opt to not do it, in part due to the taboo about the anus (many women will refuse to do this, as well) and in part due to the inherent fear that having it done, or worse, liking it, will "make them gay." But if they were to try it, a good percentage of them will actually like it. I am not talking about being fucked by another man - I am talking about having their anus and their prostates played with by their Dommes or girlfriends. I notice you have no counter-argument to the biological artifact that prostate stimulation can be a pleasurable experience given its role in controlling male orgasms.
And let me be clear: when I speak of anal sex, I do not mean gay sex. I simply mean a man receiving erotic stimulation to his anus and/or his prostate, and that stimulation can be done by a woman just as well as by another man. Wanting that stimulation because it is pleasurable is not itself an indication that the recipient is gay. Wanting it form another men, yes, that will make the male recipient either bi or gay.
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Most studies of these sorts are extremely artificial and an awful lot of them get debunked as not fitting real life.
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When you see a national survey, you get some pretty remarkable stats.
"In its 'Integrated Household Survey', the Office for National Statistics asks 178,197 people about their sexual identity - and the vast majority of them choose to answer.
93.5% of people said they were 'heterosexual' or 'straight', just 1.1% said they were 'gay' or 'lesbian' and 0.4% said they were bisexual."
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/oct/03/gay-britain-what-do-statistics-say
You must eat a lot of kale and spinash, because you are very irony.
But concerning the poll you cited, addressing it will take this thread off topic into the area of sexual identities and survey techniques. I will only say that estimates can vary significantly from one study to another, depending on the questions. This is why reports published in peer-reviewed journals are more reliable because the instruments of survey are subjected to reviews and critiques, whereas polls by non-academic agencies are not subjected to the same standards.
quote:
Even using your best speculation of 70/30, that is waaay more than FightingChains was saying when he stated that the pleasurable response was automatic; ergo, 100%.
And again, for most straight men, anal sex does indeed belong squarely in the realms of gay and Bi guys.
First, I believe you will not find my remarking that I agree with FightingChains' original claim.
Second, I also believe that you will see his clarification and subsequent modification of his statement in his later posts. Much like, I might add, that you have modified some of your starting positions as the discussion unfolded. Therefore, I think you should consider giving him the courtesy of responding only to the modified positions, and not attacking a position that he had already conceded is indefensible.
Third, I have been trying to make the point that the perception you described, that anal sex is something that only gay and bi men do, is an artificial cultural restriction placed upon the male body and the male desires. It is no more sane to believe it is true than it is to be convinced that straight women can only enjoy penile-vaginal intercourse. Some men like anal sex, and most don't. Of those who like anal sex, most are gay and bi, but some are also straight. Of those who don't like anal sex, most are straight, by weight of statistics, not because being straight precludes them from enjoying it. In fact, there are plenty of bi and gay men who don't like anal sex, either. If there were less of a taboo on anal sex and on restrictive heterosexuality for men, more straight men would try anal sex.
And it won't even make them gay if they like it. Honest.
quote:
And I'm contending that the majority of straight men wouldn't enjoy it - even from a Domme.
You're contending it against an imaginary antagonist, then, for I have already agreed with you; but what's peculiar is that you acknolwedged that I have agreed with you, too! Curiouser and curiouser, as Alice (not the one in chains) would say.
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