RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra?

RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Moonhead -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (3/31/2014 6:56:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 ok and what happens if the employer belive that medicine is witchcraft and will cover just for a prayer group? I guess he would have a hard time finding anyone to work for him. Why do you keep coming up with outlandish scenarios that will never happen? Quite. It isn't like anybody ever works a job that doesn't provide health insurance, after all.

thishereboi -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (3/31/2014 7:00:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 ok and what happens if the employer belive that medicine is witchcraft and will cover just for a prayer group? I guess he would have a hard time finding anyone to work for him. Why do you keep coming up with outlandish scenarios that will never happen? Quite. It isn't like anybody ever works a job that doesn't provide health insurance, after all. Is that what he said, because I just read it again and that's not what I am seeing. But then again you still haven't figured out that our president isn't a kenyan so I don't expect much.

Moonhead -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (3/31/2014 7:02:02 AM)
Your selective reading abilities aren't my problem, dearie.

chatterbox24 -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (3/31/2014 7:04:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead It is strange how not wanting to get pregnant is a choice, but wanting to get a stiffy in defiance of God's will isn't. Double standard or what? Oh hahahaha. Isn't that the truth. This is a silly argument, at least to me. Is it not true, that people have baby after baby that shouldn't? And who pays for it? The kids. That is a proven fact. Birth control is also used, such as depo provera as an aid to women for extremely heavier periods, that's just one example for a medical purpose. It is my understanding the morning after pill, keeps the sperm from adhering to the egg, thus a baby is never created. But lets keep those boys rock hard with Viagra, which is extremely expensive by the way, and doesn't work for many, as well as makes a lot of men sickl. Also a proven fact.

eulero83 -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (3/31/2014 1:04:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 ok and what happens if the employer belive that medicine is witchcraft and will cover just for a prayer group? I guess he would have a hard time finding anyone to work for him. Why do you keep coming up with outlandish scenarios that will never happen? to make a point, but I admit I just don't know enough about the subject so I call myself out. By the way no I think he would find even without offering medical insurance if not among citizens then among immigrants.

TieMeInKnottss -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (3/31/2014 2:10:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 ok and what happens if the employer belive that medicine is witchcraft and will cover just for a prayer group? That is an interesting thought that most people have not considered. Christian Scientists believe that sickness is belief (other than things like broken bones...you are sick because you think you are sick which is why medicine is useless ). If the owner of a company is a CSS follower, would he/she be allowed to not have a prescription plan of any sort? Currently, Christian Scientists are not exempt from Obamacare only the Amish and Mennonites.

thishereboi -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (3/31/2014 2:41:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead It is strange how not wanting to get pregnant is a choice, but wanting to get a stiffy in defiance of God's will isn't. Double standard or what? you are right. Perhaps you should start a petition to stop them from covering it.

Lucylastic -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/1/2014 9:55:35 PM)
The owners of Hobby Lobby, a Christian-owned craft supply chain, were so offended by the idea of having to include emergency contraceptives and intrauterine devices in their health insurance plans that they sued the Obama administration and took the case all the way up to the Supreme Court. But Mother Jones reported on Tuesday that the company's retirement plan has invested millions of dollars in the manufacturers of emergency contraception and drugs used to induce abortions. Hobby Lobby's 401(k) employee retirement plan holds $73 million in mutual funds that invest in multiple pharmaceutical companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and abortion-inducing medications. The companies Hobby Lobby invests in include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes the Plan B morning-after pill and ParaGard, a copper IUD, as well as Pfizer, the maker of the abortion-inducing drugs Cytotec and Prostin E2. Hobby Lobby's mutual funds also invest in two health insurance companies that cover surgical abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in their health care policies. Hobby Lobby's attorneys argue that the provision in the Affordable Care Act that requires most employers to cover contraception in their health plans infringes on the company's right to exercise religious freedom because the company's owners believe that emergency contraception and IUDs are actually forms of abortion. Medical studies have debunked this claim. Mother Jones reported that all nine of the mutual funds Hobby Lobby's retirement plan holds include investments that clash with the owners' religious beliefs about abortion. the mother jones link is http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers

Lucylastic -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/1/2014 10:24:37 PM)
Link to the company’s 2012 Annual Report of Employee Benefit Plan as filed with the Department of Labor. http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1099360-savings-incentive-and-profit-sharing-plan-for.html

FrostedFlake -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/1/2014 10:42:52 PM)
Basic rule of thumb. If the objection to it is religious in nature, it's health care. The real question is, why do religious folks think what they think should matter to anyone else? They don't want to be told what to believe, do they? Sauce for the Goose, sauce for the Gander. Desi? Wanna cover that for me?

DesideriScuri -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 12:56:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake Basic rule of thumb. If the objection to it is religious in nature, it's health care. The real question is, why do religious folks think what they think should matter to anyone else? They don't want to be told what to believe, do they? Sauce for the Goose, sauce for the Gander. Desi? Wanna cover that for me? I'm surprised you would ask as simple a question as you this. The religious folks aren't attempting to tell anyone else what to believe. That's the straw man there. Hobby Lobby not paying for their employees' contraception isn't Hobby Lobby forcing it's employees to not use contraception. Hobby Lobby's employees are free to use whatever contraception of their choosing. How is your choice to use contraception the financial burden of your employer? Wouldn't forcing an employer to pay for someone's contraception actually imposing beliefs on the employer?

SadistDave -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 1:12:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake The real question is, why do religious folks think what they think should matter to anyone else? They don't want to be told what to believe, do they? Sauce for the Goose, sauce for the Gander. Imagine if a law were passed stating that everyone legally able to own a firearm must own one? Do you think that someone should be able to opt out of that based on their moral belief that gun ownership is wrong, or should they just be required to suck it up and purchase a firearm against their beliefs? I can think of several people here who have alleged moral objections to the mere existence of firearms. Fuck 'em.... The law is the law, so now they must comply. That would be fair, right? So.... what if the government required every citizen over the age of 18 to purchase 10 lbs of meat a week? What if the law said that if you own a car it must be an American made car? With Obamacare, the government is forcing people to purchase products they do not want and in some instances have deeply felt moral objections against. If the government can force you to buy one product you don't want, they can force you to buy any product you don't want.... If Hobby Lobby is being forced to purchase plans they don't want that contains coverage they don't want, then it's no different than forcing pacifists to buy guns or vegans to buy dead animals. Remember, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. After Obamacare, what possible reason do conservatives have to refrain from imposing their ideology against the will of liberals the next time they have the House, Senate, and Oval Office? -SD-

eulero83 -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 1:55:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SadistDave quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake The real question is, why do religious folks think what they think should matter to anyone else? They don't want to be told what to believe, do they? Sauce for the Goose, sauce for the Gander. Imagine if a law were passed stating that everyone legally able to own a firearm must own one? Do you think that someone should be able to opt out of that based on their moral belief that gun ownership is wrong, or should they just be required to suck it up and purchase a firearm against their beliefs? I can think of several people here who have alleged moral objections to the mere existence of firearms. Fuck 'em.... The law is the law, so now they must comply. That would be fair, right? you mean like in military conscription?

DaddySatyr -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 3:58:59 AM)
I think HL *should* be forced to do this. I think the IRS *should* continue to target "opposition" PACs. I think the DOJ *should* continue to selectively enforce laws When the worm turns - and it will (2016, perhaps?) - it's going to be pure comedy gold, hearing the moaning and watching the gnashing of teeth as the poor PPLs tell us how unfair it all is. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

DesideriScuri -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 4:18:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I think HL *should* be forced to do this. I think the IRS *should* continue to target "opposition" PACs. I think the DOJ *should* continue to selectively enforce laws When the worm turns - and it will (2016, perhaps?) - it's going to be pure comedy gold, hearing the moaning and watching the gnashing of teeth as the poor PPLs tell us how unfair it all is. I enjoy seeing people a-roil in hypocrisy as much as the next guy, but at some point in time, the comedy gold has to be seen as the sad piss of continued failure that it will be. I'm more interested in seeing the GOP prevent the abuses, and then not push for their return once they regain the majority. I think we'll be all the better if that happens.

DaddySatyr -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 4:26:38 AM)
I swear to God, we *need* a freakin' sarcasm font! quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I think HL *should* be forced to do this. I think the IRS *should* continue to target "opposition" PACs. I think the DOJ *should* continue to selectively enforce laws When the worm turns - and it will (2016, perhaps?) - it's going to be pure comedy gold, hearing the moaning and watching the gnashing of teeth as the poor PPLs tell us how unfair it all is. I enjoy seeing people a-roil in hypocrisy as much as the next guy, but at some point in time, the comedy gold has to be seen as the sad piss of continued failure that it will be. I'm more interested in seeing the GOP prevent the abuses, and then not push for their return once they regain the majority. I think we'll be all the better if that happens. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

Phydeaux -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 11:23:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The owners of Hobby Lobby, a Christian-owned craft supply chain, were so offended by the idea of having to include emergency contraceptives and intrauterine devices in their health insurance plans that they sued the Obama administration and took the case all the way up to the Supreme Court. But Mother Jones reported on Tuesday that the company's retirement plan has invested millions of dollars in the manufacturers of emergency contraception and drugs used to induce abortions. Hobby Lobby's 401(k) employee retirement plan holds $73 million in mutual funds that invest in multiple pharmaceutical companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and abortion-inducing medications. The companies Hobby Lobby invests in include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes the Plan B morning-after pill and ParaGard, a copper IUD, as well as Pfizer, the maker of the abortion-inducing drugs Cytotec and Prostin E2. Hobby Lobby's mutual funds also invest in two health insurance companies that cover surgical abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in their health care policies. Hobby Lobby's attorneys argue that the provision in the Affordable Care Act that requires most employers to cover contraception in their health plans infringes on the company's right to exercise religious freedom because the company's owners believe that emergency contraception and IUDs are actually forms of abortion. Medical studies have debunked this claim. Mother Jones reported that all nine of the mutual funds Hobby Lobby's retirement plan holds include investments that clash with the owners' religious beliefs about abortion. the mother jones link is http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers Quite a straw man you have here. 401(k) plans are not under the control of the employer. HR administrators bring in reputable 3rd parties to act as fund administrators. These administrators choose a variety of plans to offer. 401(k) funds move funds into and out of companies based on market performance, daily. Employers do not have input into the management of that fund. But even if you said they did. The company invests in pharmaceutical companies. 73 million dollars invested in pharmaceutical companies that have market capitalizations of tens of billions of dollars or more is a pittance. But ... putting all that aside. The issue isn't whether Hobby Lobby is above reproach in its religious values. It is: Whether it is clear from its actions that it does, and can the government impose its desires over hobby lobby's objections. There is a two fold legal question: Would applying the law result in a due process violation(ie., treating different classes of citizens differently). I think it would. If thats the case, the second standard applies. Does the government have a compelling interest. I grant that it does. But here's the critical part: Does the governments compelling interest (providing health insurance) done in such a way as to be the least intrusion into the rights of the defendent. I don't think you can make that case, so I think the law will fail.

Phydeaux -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 11:25:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 ok and what happens if the employer belive that medicine is witchcraft and will cover just for a prayer group? That is an interesting thought that most people have not considered. Christian Scientists believe that sickness is belief (other than things like broken bones...you are sick because you think you are sick which is why medicine is useless ). If the owner of a company is a CSS follower, would he/she be allowed to not have a prescription plan of any sort? Currently, Christian Scientists are not exempt from Obamacare only the Amish and Mennonites. The Amish and the Mennonites are exempt because they have a history of providing health care for their members.

SlaveOh -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 11:27:02 AM)
Intelligent people wouldn't compare using birth control to using Viagra. Birth control has many other uses besides preventing pregnancy.

Lucylastic -> RE: What is basic health care? If they pay for birth control should they pay for viagra? (4/2/2014 11:40:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The owners of Hobby Lobby, a Christian-owned craft supply chain, were so offended by the idea of having to include emergency contraceptives and intrauterine devices in their health insurance plans that they sued the Obama administration and took the case all the way up to the Supreme Court. But Mother Jones reported on Tuesday that the company's retirement plan has invested millions of dollars in the manufacturers of emergency contraception and drugs used to induce abortions. Hobby Lobby's 401(k) employee retirement plan holds $73 million in mutual funds that invest in multiple pharmaceutical companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and abortion-inducing medications. The companies Hobby Lobby invests in include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes the Plan B morning-after pill and ParaGard, a copper IUD, as well as Pfizer, the maker of the abortion-inducing drugs Cytotec and Prostin E2. Hobby Lobby's mutual funds also invest in two health insurance companies that cover surgical abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in their health care policies. Hobby Lobby's attorneys argue that the provision in the Affordable Care Act that requires most employers to cover contraception in their health plans infringes on the company's right to exercise religious freedom because the company's owners believe that emergency contraception and IUDs are actually forms of abortion. Medical studies have debunked this claim. Mother Jones reported that all nine of the mutual funds Hobby Lobby's retirement plan holds include investments that clash with the owners' religious beliefs about abortion. the mother jones link is http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/hobby-lobby-retirement-plan-invested-emergency-contraception-and-abortion-drug-makers Quite a straw man you have here. 401(k) plans are not under the control of the employer. HR administrators bring in reputable 3rd parties to act as fund administrators. These administrators choose a variety of plans to offer. 401(k) funds move funds into and out of companies based on market performance, daily. Employers do not have input into the management of that fund. But even if you said they did. The company invests in pharmaceutical companies. 73 million dollars invested in pharmaceutical companies that have market capitalizations of tens of billions of dollars or more is a pittance. But ... putting all that aside. The issue isn't whether Hobby Lobby is above reproach in its religious values. It is: Whether it is clear from its actions that it does, and can the government impose its desires over hobby lobby's objections. There is a two fold legal question: Would applying the law result in a due process violation(ie., treating different classes of citizens differently). I think it would. If thats the case, the second standard applies. Does the government have a compelling interest. I grant that it does. But here's the critical part: Does the governments compelling interest (providing health insurance) done in such a way as to be the least intrusion into the rights of the defendent. I don't think you can make that case, so I think the law will fail. sorry i didnt make a strawman, I merely shared an article from the news as I was catching up last night.. so your post is(as usual) pointless

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625