War brewing in Nevada.

War brewing in Nevada. (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> War brewing in Nevada. (4/11/2014 5:28:00 PM)
Okay, it seems there was this rancher in Nevada who has been grazing his cattle on public lands since 1993 without paying grazing fees. His permit was revoked then because he violated regulations protecting an endangered species. So for 20 years he has been breaking the law. His reason, his family settled the area, and have been grazing cattle on the land for 157 years, claiming ancestral rights to the land. quote: LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Images of a forced cattle roundup on a rural Nevada range sent ripples through the West on Friday, prompting elected officials in several states to weigh in, militia members to mobilize and federal land managers to reshape elements of the operation. Bureau of Land Management officials dismantled designated protest areas Thursday and Nevada's governor urged calm as the fight over rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle widened into a debate about states' rights and federal land-use policy. The dispute that triggered the roundup dates to 1993, when the BLM cited concern for the federally protected tortoise. The agency later revoked Bundy's grazing rights. Bundy claims ancestral rights to graze his cattle on lands his Mormon family settled in the 19th century. He stopped paying grazing fees and disregarded several court orders to remove his animals. Ripples of Nevada range showdown spreading in West Now right wing militia groups are heading west to support this rancher against the Federal government, with statements " I’m not “afraid to shoot,” quote: Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s decades-long battle against the federal government over grazing rights has heated to the point where militia groups have joined in and taken up spots against the feds who’ve circled his land — and talk is, they’re not afraid to open fire. A spokesman for the one of the militia groups said as much to local 8 News Now: I’m not “afraid to shoot,” he said. Margaret Houston, Mr. Bundy’s sister and a cancer survivor, said at a town hall gathering this week that the situation “was like a war zone” and that she felt “like I was not in the United States,” The Daily Mail reported. The Las Vegas Review-Journal described it this way: “Serious bloodshed was narrowly avoided,” in a story about how dogs were unleashed on a woman who was pregnant while the rancher’s son was hit with a taser. On Tuesday, armed Bureau of Land Management agents stormed Mr. Bundy’s property, escalating a court dispute that’s wound for two decades over the rancher’s refusal to pay for grazing fees. Read more:Source Now I have a problem with his argument because there are thousands of ranchers who have been doing the same thing and have been following the law as well. Why does this guy feel he is above the law?

Kirata -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/11/2014 6:00:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Read more:Source Bad link, story here: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/militias-head-nevada-ranchers-standoff-feds-were-n/#ixzz2ycwT0T7P More background... LAS VEGAS (AP) - A Republican U.S. senator added his voice Wednesday to critics of a federal cattle roundup fought by a Nevada rancher who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn't be penalized by an "overreaching" agency. Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called "an atmosphere of intimidation," resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled. Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen's Association and remained "extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure." The federal government has shut down a scenic but windswept area about half the size of the state of Delaware to round up about 900 cattle it says are trespassing. BLM and National Park Service officials didn't immediately respond Wednesday to criticisms of the roundup that started Saturday and prompted the closure of the 1,200-square-mile area through May 12. It's seen by some as the latest battle over state and federal land rights in a state with deep roots in those disputes, including the Sagebrush Rebellion of the 1970s and '80s. Nevada, where various federal agencies manage or control more than 80 percent of the land, is among several Western states where ranchers have challenged federal land ownership... Sandoval, a former state attorney general and federal district court judge, weighed in late Tuesday after several days of media coverage about blocked roads and armed federal agents fanning out around Bundy's ranch while contractors using helicopters and vehicles herd cows into portable pens in rugged and remote areas. "No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans," the governor said in a statement. Sandoval said he was most offended that armed federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a fenced-in "First Amendment area" south of the resort city of Mesquite. The site "tramples upon Nevadans' fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution" and should be dismantled, Sandoval said... Bundy estimates the unpaid fees total about $300,000. He notes that his Mormon family's 19th century melon farm and ranch operation in surrounding areas predates creation of the BLM in 1946. Source K.

DomKen -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/11/2014 7:00:24 PM)
OP's link works fine for me. So this guy is ripping me off for 300k and he's got some armed goons to try and intimidate the feds that are just trying to do their jobs? Why isn't he in jail already?

Kirata -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/11/2014 7:41:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen OP's link works fine for me. The link I quoted works fine for you, eh? Well that's really quite amazing, because it directs to: http://http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/militias-head-nevada-ranchers-standoff-feds-were-n/#ixzz2ycwT0T7P K.

DomKen -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/11/2014 8:10:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen OP's link works fine for me. The link I quoted works fine for you, eh? Well that's really quite amazing, because it directs to: http://http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/militias-head-nevada-ranchers-standoff-feds-were-n/#ixzz2ycwT0T7P Are you the OP? NO! Then my post was not referring to your link at all.

Kirata -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/11/2014 11:37:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Are you the OP? NO! Then my post was not referring to your link at all. Ah I see. When I quoted the OP's link, saying that it was broken, and you responded saying that the OP's link worked fine for you, you weren't referring to the link that I quoted, because quoting the OP's link made it "my" link. But here's the thing. The OP's link that I quoted didn't work fine for you before, doesn't work fine for you now, and won't work fine for you tomorrow. The OP's other link isn't broken, but that one is. So you were wrong before, you're wrong now, and you'll still be wrong tomorrow. Find a way to live with it. K.

DaddySatyr -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/11/2014 11:45:21 PM)
Harry Reid's son is also a lawyer, representing some foreign energy developers. Reid has received campaign funds from the group of foreign energy developers. Hmmmmmm. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

susie -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 1:58:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen OP's link works fine for me. The link I quoted works fine for you, eh? Well that's really quite amazing, because it directs to: http://http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/militias-head-nevada-ranchers-standoff-feds-were-n/#ixzz2ycwT0T7P K. Strange as the OPs link worked for me too.

SadistDave -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 2:03:58 AM)
-FR- In case you all just missed this; there are two, yes two, links in the OP. One works. One doesn't. -SD-

Yachtie -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 5:20:14 AM)
Bundy has supposedly paid all fees due under state law. The problem, as I understand it, is that BLM came in and changed the agreement, adding its own fees which Bundy objects to. Involves turtles, or something about them. I've heard reports that the turtles are doing fine and even that there are so many they are being destroyed. I've also read that Harry Reid (D-NV) is supportive of a foreign business, Chinese I think, developing a wind farm on that property, along with there being minerals and other valuables business wants to get its hands on. Information is slowly coming out that its about more than what's being reported. There are supposedly deals in the backroom worth millions, if not billions, and Bundy is standing in the way. edit: For more information see here, here, and here.

DaddySatyr -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 5:24:04 AM)
It's a solar panel factory but, close enough. Of course, the fact that Reid's son represents the business has nothing to do with Reid's motivation. Neither does the campaign donations he's been receiving from the corporation. quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie I've also read that Harry Reid (D-NV) is supportive of a foreign business, Chinese I think, developing a wind farm on that property, along with there being minerals and other valuables business wants to get its hands on. Information is slowly coming out that its about more than what's being reported. There are supposedly deals in the backroom worth millions, if not billions, and Bundy is standing in the way. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

KYsissy -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 5:43:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Bundy has supposedly paid all fees due under state law. The problem, as I understand it, is that BLM came in and changed the agreement, adding its own fees which Bundy objects to. Involves turtles, or something about them. I've heard reports that the turtles are doing fine and even that there are so many they are being destroyed. I've also read that Harry Reid (D-NV) is supportive of a foreign business, Chinese I think, developing a wind farm on that property, along with there being minerals and other valuables business wants to get its hands on. Information is slowly coming out that its about more than what's being reported. There are supposedly deals in the backroom worth millions, if not billions, and Bundy is standing in the way. edit: For more information see here, here, and here. Very very interesting

Yachtie -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:05:47 AM)
fr The Bureau of Land Management, whose director was Sen. Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) former senior adviser, has purged documents from its web site stating that the agency wants Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s cattle off of the land his family has worked for over 140 years in order to make way for solar panel power stations. Deleted from BLM.gov but reposted for posterity by the Free Republic, the BLM document entitled “Cattle Trespass Impacts” directly states that Bundy’s cattle “impacts” solar development, more specifically the construction of “utility-scale solar power generation facilities” on “public lands.” “Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests,” she added. “BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”

jlf1961 -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:09:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Bundy has supposedly paid all fees due under state law. The problem, as I understand it, is that BLM came in and changed the agreement, adding its own fees which Bundy objects to. Involves turtles, or something about them. I've heard reports that the turtles are doing fine and even that there are so many they are being destroyed. I've also read that Harry Reid (D-NV) is supportive of a foreign business, Chinese I think, developing a wind farm on that property, along with there being minerals and other valuables business wants to get its hands on. Information is slowly coming out that its about more than what's being reported. There are supposedly deals in the backroom worth millions, if not billions, and Bundy is standing in the way. edit: For more information see here, here, and here. Mind explaining how the state can charge grazing fees on federal land? I will answer that for you, the state cant. Bundy has not paid anyone anything for grazing his cattle on federal land, standing on the argument that his family has been grazing on that land for over a hundred years. Now, Yachtie, as for the back room deals, deals for what? There are no minerals worth anything on the land, so what are the deals for? Tourists to look at grass in Nevada? Now from FOX news: quote: The fight involves a 600,000-acre area under BLM control called Gold Butte, near the Utah border. The vast and rugged land is the habitat of the protected desert tortoise, and the land has been off-limits for cattle since 1998. Five years before that, when grazing was legal, Bundy stopped paying federal fees for the right. FOX News Now, if you don't own the land, how can you claim a right to use it? Hell if anyone has ancestral rights to that land, it is the Native Americans from that region. Any other rancher using federal (public) lands seem to have no problem paying the fees, which is $1.35 per AUM (Animal Unit Month) which means per animal for one month. Hell, a grazing lease on private land is a lot more than that. FYI, infowars, and the other sites you are claiming as sources are nothing more than conspiracy websites, and if you think Alex Jones knows anything you are sadly mistaken, every one of his theories have been debunked, destroyed, and proved to be nothing more than nonsense being spouted by a sensationalist trying to make a buck off ultra conservative paranoia. Hell the health food drink he pushes on his show that is to avoid drinking lead, arsenic and mercury that the "government" is putting in drinking water actually lists those compounds in the fucking ingredients. He is also pitching a water filter that removes those elements from your drinking water. Please remember, these people claim we never landed on the moon, among other things. And the only animals the BLM is guilty of euthanizing are wild mustangs, granted it is by proxy, but hey, many of the horses end up at dog food factories, glue factories among other places where they are slaughtered.

Moonhead -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:11:10 AM)
Oh well, if the Feds just want to use the land for solar farms, obviously they have no right to try to apply federal law to some rancher who thinks that grazing his cattle on his own land is beneath his dignity.

Yachtie -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:15:11 AM)
fr Notice what Bundy's position is; the State of Nevada owns the lands pursuant to their NRS 321.596 et al statutes (Nevada Public Lands Ownership Act) enacted by Nevada back in the late 1970's. All the western public lands states adopted this law back when it was called the “Sagebrush Rebellion”. The main component of this law (Public Lands Ownership) has yet to be adjudicated by the courts or by the US Supreme Court. This matter came to the forefront once in the court process and the then Nevada Attorney General filed away this issue by stipulating that the feds owned the public lands in Nevada. The court basically said it had no other choice but to rule in favor of the Feds. (US vs Nye County). Bundy is following Nevada Law and holds that the 18 year old adverse decision against him that the BLM et al is using does not apply to him because he is not grazing on federal property. The State of Nevada has an obligation to enforce its own law on this matter. Therefore Bundy is not in contempt of any court order since he is not operating on federal property. Bundy paid grazing fees to the rightful Landlord (Clark County-NV) back in the '90's and then they returned that payment to Bundy. I know this first hand because I was there when that happened. Bundy still has the county check and he never intended to steal anything and stands ready to pay the rightful Landlord today just like he did back in the '90's (enhancement added) Evidently there is a dispute here, jlf1961's assertion being contested. State law versus Nev. Atty. Gen stipulation. Did he have the power to do that?

Kirata -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:17:15 AM)
I think susie was just going off Ken's post. Apparently he didn't get the clue, being as I hid it all sneaky-like in a quote yanno. quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 Read more:Source Bad link, story here: quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen OP's link works fine for me. (in reply to Kirata) K.

Yachtie -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:27:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 FYI, infowars, and the other sites you are claiming as sources are nothing more than conspiracy websites, and if you think Alex Jones knows anything you are sadly mistaken, every one of his theories have been debunked, destroyed, and proved to be nothing more than nonsense being spouted by a sensationalist trying to make a buck off ultra conservative paranoia. Your sorry ass is very dismissive of the information Jones links to, simply because it's Jones. Because you have no ability to parse information other than approved by you, well, you are dismissed.

jlf1961 -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:30:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie fr Notice what Bundy's position is; the State of Nevada owns the lands pursuant to their NRS 321.596 et al statutes (Nevada Public Lands Ownership Act) enacted by Nevada back in the late 1970's. All the western public lands states adopted this law back when it was called the “Sagebrush Rebellion”. The main component of this law (Public Lands Ownership) has yet to be adjudicated by the courts or by the US Supreme Court. This matter came to the forefront once in the court process and the then Nevada Attorney General filed away this issue by stipulating that the feds owned the public lands in Nevada. The court basically said it had no other choice but to rule in favor of the Feds. (US vs Nye County). Bundy is following Nevada Law and holds that the 18 year old adverse decision against him that the BLM et al is using does not apply to him because he is not grazing on federal property. The State of Nevada has an obligation to enforce its own law on this matter. Therefore Bundy is not in contempt of any court order since he is not operating on federal property. Bundy paid grazing fees to the rightful Landlord (Clark County-NV) back in the '90's and then they returned that payment to Bundy. I know this first hand because I was there when that happened. Bundy still has the county check and he never intended to steal anything and stands ready to pay the rightful Landlord today just like he did back in the '90's (enhancement added) Evidently there is a dispute here, jlf1961's assertion being contested. State law versus Nev. Atty. Gen stipulation. Did he have the power to do that? I am well aware of the sage brush rebellion, but since the states have no rights to just lay claim to federally owned lands, I kinda hold that as a bullshit point. I mean if the states could lay claim to federal lands, you would have thought that the timber lands the government owns in the Pacific northwest and Southeastern states would have been grabbed. To carry this further, the states do not have the right to ignore federal statutes either, the so called nullification of laws they dont agree with. I am all for state's rights, but most of the rights some of these states are claiming just dont exist.

Yachtie -> RE: War brewing in Nevada. (4/12/2014 6:33:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 I am all for state's rights I find that amusing. Laughably so. [:D]

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