How do you feel about?

How do you feel about? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

I would not be happy

72% (27)

I don't mind, no big deal

27% (10)

Total Votes : 37

(last vote on : 3/14/2015 8:11:52 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Greta75 -> How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 8:58:42 AM)
So let's say, you work in a company with 300 employees, and only 3 employees are Muslims. Comes the annual company dinner and dance, while the company has fantastic budget to bring you to the finest most amazing michelin starred restaurants, and have the best free flow alcoholic parties, but because of the 3 Muslim employees who their religion forbids them enter non-halal restaurant, all 300 employees has no choice but to go to a inferior certified halal location with bad food and no alcohol. This happens every single year. In my country, we are taught to be sensitive to other people's religious needs, so many companies practice such things. And of course I get scolded all the time for being insensitive to the 3 Muslims whenever I complain about the unfairness of this, most of these nicer restaurants are able to prepare a pork and lard free meal for these Muslims, but of course it's not good enough. I would like to know how international people feel about this.

GreedyTop -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:02:57 AM)
Why not have the event in a neutral setting and have catering?

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:10:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop Why not have the event in a neutral setting and have catering? Not many catering can cater to both, it's either fully halal or non-halal. And those that cater to both are again, inferior caterers, as it's very complicated to cater to halal, they got to wash their culteries and utensils in special holy sand and say prayers, all their meats and vegetable specifically for the halal folks has to be specially halal certified. It's complicated, so most don't combine both, they specialise. And any place that serves alcohol is not halal, so we can't have the halal folks in the same area as us, eating with us, if we had alcohol. And for me, like a buffet, all you're getting is turkey ham, chicken ham, beef bacon, all the disgusting fake stuffs that taste bad which annoys the crap out of me. I want real ham and real bacon and I don't want the bacon bits on my potato to be fake vegan bacon bits out of tin that taste like crackers.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:12:30 AM)
fr I'd be grateful that the company were taking us out to dinner at all, and figure that it's entirely their choice to book whichever venue they see fit, since they're paying. I'd also prefer no one be left out, if it could be avoided. If I were an employer, and wanted to give my staff a treat, I'd want to make sure everyone could take part. How often do you complain about this that you need to be scolded 'all the time'? I don't know how to say this tactfully, but you've made it clear in the past that you think very little of muslims, so is this perhaps less about the food and more about them personally?

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:16:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders I don't know how to say this tactfully, but you've made it clear in the past that you think very little of muslims, so is this perhaps less about the food and more about them personally? No, it's all about food. We can't go to nice places with really fantastic food because of them. Alot of our best local food is cooked with pork. I complain but I know they can't do anything about it, because, the 3 muslim will boycott the event if it's not halal and we would be insulting them if we dare want to go to somewhere that we prefer the food there but can't suit them. My issue is, we all work equally hard, but why should they always get their preference? Everyone should take turns on different years and accommodate to each other.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:17:37 AM)
Personally, I would vote for the majority. If there were 3 muslims and only 30 people in the company, they are out-numbered 10 to 1. So why should 90% of the workforce suffer for the 10%?? Or in your case, 99% suffering for the 1%. That's just nuts - it's not democratic. [:D] What next?? Festival of eide instead of the nativity play?? Or a visit from an olive-skinned man dressed as the prophet instead of Santa?????? Oh man..... What is the world coming to??? Meh! Fuck'em I say. They came to the country for a better life. If they don't like some of it, tough shit - it's what makes the country what it is. Would the locals of their country abandon ramadan because a handful of whitie christians don't follow it?? Would they fuck as like!! They'd tell you to sling your hook poste haste. ETA: Nice sentiments Anthena. But when you've got a mixed bag, there will always be someone that doesn't fit no matter what you try. So a majority vote should be the norm and those that don't like it will have to make other arrangements.

igor2003 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:33:42 AM)
There doesn't seem to be any "easy" answer. Normally I would say that you go by the old saying that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. What you seem to have is just the opposite. You have 1% of the workforce dictating what the other 99% get to enjoy. So, how far is the company willing to bend over backwards to satisfy all the employees? Maybe instead of just one caterer, get two...one for each group. Another possible solution, since you say this happens every year, is to alternate years. One year catering to one group. The next year cater to the other. If one group doesn't like it, then they just have to wait until the next year. I realize that this dinner is basically "for the employees" and is a kind of "thank you" to them, but the simplest solution, to me, would be to make it a pot luck. Everyone can then just bring something that they are willing to eat. Simply put, you can't please all the people all the time.

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:42:53 AM)
Igor, the reason why they cannot get two caterers is because the muslims cannot sit on the same table as us, if our plates contains food that is not halal. Then they would be isolated in a table of their own, while they want people to mingle and be able to sit together. The muslims just got hell of alot of rules! Yes, where I am, only 13% of the population is Muslim, but all the MacDonald, Burger King, Wendy's, Pizza Hut, are all Halal now, which means, no bacon, no ham in their menu. But the strange thing is, the Hindu's and Buddhists combine don't eat beef, and they form a larger population than the Muslims. Yet I don't see these fast food places taking beef out of their menu interestingly. So they are only bending to one specific religion. And in our company, we certainly have many non-beef eaters for religious reasons and all of them are okay with sharing a table with people who eats beef, cough cough, Muslims love eating beef!

MissMorrigan -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:50:24 AM)
Your fantastical description of muslims differs vastly from anything I recognise and my experience comes from having grown up in a community with many muslim friends and neighbours (London), as well as current colleagues. I have yet to encounter one catering establishment here in the UK that does not cater for people with religious or dietary requirements provided advance notice is given, therefore they will offer halal meat where possible and if that's not an option, there are still other options for people so chat with the caterers and see what the options are for your muslim colleagues. As for not entering an establishment that serves alcohol. Nonsense, unless it's a pub, bar or nightclub where the main reason for a person to be there is to consume alcohol. Visiting a restaurant is considered 'lawful' as the main purpose for being there is to eat. They are not permitted to HANDLE alcohol. Huge difference.

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:53:49 AM)
quote: As for not entering an establishment that serves alcohol. Nonsense, unless it's a pub, bar or nightclub where the main reason for a person to be there is to consume alcohol. Visiting a restaurant is considered 'lawful' as the main purpose for being there is to eat. They are not permitted to HANDLE alcohol. Huge difference. That's because you experience this in London, where the country sets the tone by not allowing sharia law to be practiced. I live in a country where Muslims are allowed to practice their sharia laws, even though there is only 13% of them. Our government philosophy is, keep them content and happy, so they don't turn terrorist and cause trouble. So having 99% cater to food preferences of 1% is seen as a small sacrifice for peace. Which it truly is a small sacrifice but I just feel disgruntled and short changed, that as equal employees who work as hard, we deserve a reward we like, just like the Muslims. If this was rotated alternately each year, that would be great, I wouldn't have any complains. And I know Saudi Muslims can keep dogs, yet Muslims around here claim they cannot keep or touch a dog. Who is telling the truth, who knows, they make up what they want to benefit them.

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:58:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 Igor, the reason why they cannot get two caterers is because the muslims cannot sit on the same table as us, if our plates contains food that is not halal. Then they would be isolated in a table of their own, while they want people to mingle and be able to sit together. The muslims just got hell of alot of rules! Yes, where I am, only 13% of the population is Muslim, but all the MacDonald, Burger King, Wendy's, Pizza Hut, are all Halal now, which means, no bacon, no ham in their menu. But the strange thing is, the Hindu's and Buddhists combine don't eat beef, and they form a larger population than the Muslims. Yet I don't see these fast food places taking beef out of their menu interestingly. So they are only bending to one specific religion. And in our company, we certainly have many non-beef eaters for religious reasons and all of them are okay with sharing a table with people who eats beef, cough cough, Muslims love eating beef! This is a separate issue. Businesses want to make money. I'm guessing most people who don't eat beef never set food in McDonalds or Burger King, since beef is their staple product. The bacon is a garnish. It's a case of selling what sells.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 9:59:53 AM)
I think the problem with Greta's people is that the muslims will not sit at the same table as those eating or drinking prohibited stuff. And the few muslims I'm friendly with here (only 50 miles from you) would also do the same. So even if the establishment could provide halal meat and not serve alcohol, the muslims would boycott the venue in its entirety, not just the tables.

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:00:41 AM)
quote: This is a separate issue. Businesses want to make money. I'm guessing most people who don't eat beef never set food in McDonalds or Burger King, since beef is their staple product. The bacon is a garnish. It's a case of selling what sells. The reason is that Muslims will boycott them because they serve pork whereas hindus and buddhist will still go to the establishment and just order a chicken or a fish burger instead. That's just the difference in the way they work. Hindus and Buddhists are more accommodating.

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:06:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I think the problem with Greta's people is that the muslims will not sit at the same table as those eating or drinking prohibited stuff. And the few muslims I'm friendly with here (only 50 miles from you) would also do the same. So even if the establishment could provide halal meat and not serve alcohol, the muslims would boycott the venue in its entirety, not just the tables. Yes, exactly, thank you.

MissMorrigan -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:07:00 AM)
So, Sharia law is preventing you from approaching caterers to ask what options they provide for devout muslims attending a large party their business will benefit from hosting? Got it. This is more about personal bias than it is regarding any perceived difficulty and you're just loving stirring the pot hence your terrorist comment. quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 That's because you experience this in London, where the country sets the tone by not allowing sharia law to be practiced. I live in a country where Muslims are allowed to practice their sharia laws, even though there is only 13% of them. Our government philosophy is, keep them content and happy, so they don't turn terrorist and cause trouble. So having 99% cater to food preferences of 1% is seen as a small sacrifice for peace. Which it truly is a small sacrifice but I just feel disgruntled and short changed, that as equal employees who work as hard, we deserve a reward we like, just like the Muslims. If this was rotated alternately each year, that would be great, I wouldn't have any complains. And I know Saudi Muslims can keep dogs, yet Muslims around here claim they cannot keep or touch a dog. Who is telling the truth, who knows, they make up what they want to benefit them.

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:10:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan So, Sharia law is preventing you from approaching caterers to ask what options they provide for devout muslims attending a large party their business will benefit from hosting? As I answered to someone else earlier, top caterers here either cater to non-halal or halal and cannot do both. All the non-halal caterers can only cater for the muslims with a special no pork and no lard menu, BUT they cannot get halal certification by the sharia courts here, because they are also involve in serving non-halal food. By sharia law it's not possible. Some mainstream top 5 star hotels in Singapore have fully turned halal too because of this. We are at the mercy of how accommodating those 3 muslims wanna be. But if they insist on the stickliest of what halal means to them, then, pure halal is the only way to please them. Note that we are not forcing them to eat pork. ANY caterer or restaurant can give them food without lard or pork. That part is easy.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:16:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan So, Sharia law is preventing you from approaching caterers to ask what options they provide for devout muslims attending a large party their business will benefit from hosting? Got it. This is more about personal bias than it is regarding any perceived difficulty and you're just loving stirring the pot hence your terrorist comment. No, she is stating that the muslims are spoiling the arrangements for the rest of the company because of their rigidity in not accepting any "normal" type of restaurants. It has nothing to do with sharia law or anything else. My local shopkeeper had a bash when his wife had their baby daughter. The caterers were strictly halal even though many non-muslims attended. They would not even consider anything that wasn't strictly halal and that also goes for venues. The last time I went to a company bash, several ideas were put forward and everyone had a vote. One year, it was a nosh-up at a beefeater pub with plenty of drink. Another year it was at an indian halal restaurant. The majority vote for type of dinner and venue got the go-ahead.

MissMorrigan -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:18:35 AM)
Freedomdwarf1, it still is not an issue. Most restaurants where large parties are catered for are made up of several tables put together so that everyone can remain in the one area, the muslims would have no issue with having their table separated by a few inches, I'm sure if they were asked and the restaurant was notified in advance. None of the muslims I know would boycott an event and I know a lot, my background is multi-cultural and I grew up with muslims as part of my family. Even if they did decline, that is their choice and again, not an issue because they were asked which means they were included. What I keep seeing is a lot of assumption and the people involved are not actually represented here. Their voice is absent and we have the word of someone whose bias is well known. quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 I think the problem with Greta's people is that the muslims will not sit at the same table as those eating or drinking prohibited stuff. And the few muslims I'm friendly with here (only 50 miles from you) would also do the same. So even if the establishment could provide halal meat and not serve alcohol, the muslims would boycott the venue in its entirety, not just the tables.

Greta75 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:24:03 AM)
quote: the muslims would have no issue with having their table separated by a few inches I have addressed this, and the company wants everybody to mingle and not have a situation where the muslims has to be stuck on their own island, there is just 3 of them! Hell, the company could easily give them a big budget and let 3 of em go party on their own in their choice of halal place, while the 99% rest of us go party in a proper place. But that's encouraging segregation which is not what they want. quote: None of the muslims I know would boycott an event and I know a lot, my background is multi-cultural and I grew up with muslims as part of my family. I think Muslims who grow up with western values can be very different from muslims who grew up in Asia. Also, it depends on the direction of the country. Assuming you are in Britain, Britain expects Muslims to fit into their culture, and won't make accommodation for their culture, generally as a whole country. Take for example, we allow Muslims to practice polygamy legally, or marry pre-puberscent girls legally, but Britain does not. And note that these privileges are only legal for Muslims but not for all citizens. So of course if Muslims there aren't used to having special privileges, they will also not expect it.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: How do you feel about? (4/15/2014 10:25:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan Freedomdwarf1, it still is not an issue. Most restaurants where large parties are catered for are made up of several tables put together so that everyone can remain in the one area, the muslims would have no issue with having their table separated by a few inches, <snip> Sorry, that's not my experience here and obviously not where Greta is either. The muslims I know would not even enter a non-halal restaurant let alone sit a few inches away from where non-halal food or alcohol was being served. You are in London. I'm 50 miles east of you half-way to Dover. So we're not even in a different country but still have vastly different experiences. I understand where Greta is coming from regardless of her (alleged) anti-muslim stance. ETA: Most of the muslim friends I have are British born and bred - not recent immigrants.

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