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RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/16/2014 7:13:50 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Which particular personal freedoms are you speaking of?

Mainly, those freedoms that tend to involve my job,

Is it the government's job to give you a job or protect the one you have?


my income,

Is it the government't job to limit or increase your wages?


my taxes,

Which taxes have been laid unfairly on you by the government?


my healthcare,

What limits do you feel the government rightly may put on your health care?


my property,


Is it the government's job to protect your property?

and my ability to protect myself.

What has the government done to limit your ability to protect yourself?



Who said "government"?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/16/2014 7:18:20 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Who said "government"?

The government is made up primarily of demopubs and republicrats. So in answer to your question you are the one who said government.
Now do you wish to speak in generalities about how this team is so much worse than that team or are you willing to actually discuss this issue with specifics?
What exactly has the party you hate done to fuck with your job,your property,your insurance,your income,your taxes or your ability to defend yourself?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/16/2014 7:20:43 PM >

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/16/2014 8:42:18 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
The government is made up primarily of demopubs and republicrats. So in answer to your question you are the one who said government.
Now do you wish to speak in generalities about how this team is so much worse than that team or are you willing to actually discuss this issue with specifics?
What exactly has the party you hate done to fuck with your job,your property,your insurance,your income,your taxes or your ability to defend yourself?


First of all, don't try to reframe the issue by putting words in my mouth. I made a comparison between Dems and Pubs based on my own experiences and viewpoint. Not a commentary on the government.

And for the record, I don't hate Democrats. I hate extreme wing activists...from either party.

Now, if you want me to be specific about what I don't like about the Democratic Party, then I'll tell you...

1. They tried to prevent the passing of "right to work" in Michigan and in return, tried to enshrine union control over some private sectors of employment within state law.

2. They stoked the "climate change" and "eco-damage" fears to stop a small natural gas power plant from being built near me that could have created a lot of badly needed jobs and most likely done comparatively little environmental damage.

3. They complain about the greedy insurance companies then support a federal law that allows the government to exceed it's own authority (imo) and force me to pay into a system influenced by the same insurance companies they're complaining about.

4. They increasingly look for ways to limit my ability to own or use a firearm.

...etc.

Basically, it's all the same kind of things you hear from most people on my side of the political spectrum.

Are you really surprised?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/16/2014 8:58:52 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Its all cases where the state feels empowered to dictate solutions to its citizens.

The state is empowered to dictate sollutions to it's citizens...try reading the constitution.


Wrong.

If you ask a majority of citizens - are the post office a good idea - the answer is yes.
If you ask them - is a standing military a good idea - the answer is .. yes.

But when government has the ability to do things like BLM, WACO, ACA, pretty much in contravention of what its citizens want - its dictating.
And as is enshrined in our documents - citizens then have the right and duty to overthrow said government.

ACA is a case in point. Dimocrats knew it was unpopular. The could have opted for incentives, rather than mandates, and picked up republican votes. Snow, Collins - and a handful of others.

They chose not to. They chose to impose a political choice. Tyranny.

Smaller govt has less power, left or right, to impose its will on the people.
More freedom.

I can't even fathom how someone could be opposed.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/16/2014 8:59:46 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/16/2014 9:31:57 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		You want smaller government? Go to Somalia, you can do whatever the hell you want over there. Freedom doesn't mean you get to do whatever the hell you want whenever the hell you want. There needs to be rules, structures in place to keep the little guy from getting stepped on. You seem to conveniently forget that there are many people with pre-existing conditions who can now get insurance thanks to the ACA. What do you want to do? Go knocking on their door and telling them that they don't deserve their insurance because it was put in place by the government? Government isn't perfect, especially when you got businesses buying politicians. They should be trying to help people, and the one time they actually try to do that, you have to go ahead and make it a political issue. Yes, it isn't the best system in the world, but it's a hell of a lot better than what was in place before the ACA as it HELPS people get health insurance. Maybe for some it's less affordable, but if that's part of what it takes to move toward a better healthcare system, then I bet a lot of people would be happy to take a slight dip in their monthly spendings. Money isn't freedom, money isn't everything. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is supposed to be the core virtues of the USA right? How is helping people live better and healthier lives a denial of those virtues? I know you're not a heartless person Phydeaux, but you're so blinded by political extremism that you can't even admit that the ACA helps people. I agree that in some cases it doesn't, but if you look at the big picture, on the large scale it does help people, whether they can now have an insurance plan or whether their insurance is a bit cheaper. There are more important things in this world than greed and individualism, such as the common good.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/16/2014 9:59:11 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Can anybody really think of any reason whatsoever, to ever vote for any republican for any office at all ?

Sure. More of them seem to give a shit about my personal freedom than Democrats.

Describe to me in detail just how the republicans have demonstrated a greater care for your personal freedoms.

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 12:52:40 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I am assuming that the Chavez in the OP refers to the late Hugo Chavez, the Venezulan radical leftist.

If this assumption is correct you are going to have to explain the connection you see (or imagine) between Bundy's backwoods problems with the Federal US Govt and a long dead South American socialist. Because I can't see one.



Just curious. Did you read either article?

I note that you have made no attempt whatsoever to answer the question I put to you. Yet you appear to expect me to answer your questions regardless ...

When you answer my initial question, by demonstrating a credible and verifiable connection between Bundy's issues and a long dead South American radical leftist, I'll be happy to answer whatever questions you might like to put to me that arise out of the alleged connection or the OP.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 4:08:56 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm actually more interested by Kirchner. Is he implying that the President of Argentina is somehow part of some plot to deny some asshole in Nevada his "rights?"


Its all cases where the state feels empowered to dictate solutions to its citizens.

Every state dictates solutions to its citizens, except Somalia. Have you considered relocating?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 4:16:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
But when government has the ability to do things like BLM, WACO, ACA, pretty much in contravention of what its citizens want - its dictating.

Stopping a pedophile who was planning to go to downtown Waco and massacre a McDonald's to force a confrontation with the government is not something the government should do? Which citizens don't want that? Name them.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 6:23:55 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
The government is made up primarily of demopubs and republicrats. So in answer to your question you are the one who said government.
Now do you wish to speak in generalities about how this team is so much worse than that team or are you willing to actually discuss this issue with specifics?
What exactly has the party you hate done to fuck with your job,your property,your insurance,your income,your taxes or your ability to defend yourself?


First of all, don't try to reframe the issue by putting words in my mouth. I made a comparison between Dems and Pubs based on my own experiences and viewpoint. Not a commentary on the government.

That by definition is a comentary on the government.

And for the record, I don't hate Democrats. I hate extreme wing activists...from either party.

Please define what you mean by exreme wing activist...specific examples please.

Now, if you want me to be specific about what I don't like about the Democratic Party, then I'll tell you...

1. They tried to prevent the passing of "right to work" in Michigan and in return, tried to enshrine union control over some private sectors of employment within state law.

Why exactly are you against unions?
Don't unions raise wages for workers?
Don't unions promote workplace safety?
If the majority wish to have unions isn't that the democratic principle at work?

2. They stoked the "climate change" and "eco-damage" fears to stop a small natural gas power plant from being built near me that could have created a lot of badly needed jobs and most likely done comparatively little environmental damage.

On the face of it it would seem that a ng power plant would be more eco-friendly...do you have some specifics?

3. They complain about the greedy insurance companies then support a federal law that allows the government to exceed it's own authority (imo) and force me to pay into a system influenced by the same insurance companies they're complaining about.

And yet you did not complane when the other party did the same thing at the state level. Why is that?

4. They increasingly look for ways to limit my ability to own or use a firearm.

...etc.

I thought the brady bill was a republicrat enterprise. What specifically have the demopubs actually done to limit your ability to own or use a firearm?

Basically, it's all the same kind of things you hear from most people on my side of the political spectrum.

No most,on both sides, just speak in generalities and refuse to actually speak to specifics.


(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 6:30:53 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Its all cases where the state feels empowered to dictate solutions to its citizens.

The state is empowered to dictate sollutions to it's citizens...try reading the constitution.


Wrong.

If you ask a majority of citizens - are the post office a good idea - the answer is yes.
If you ask them - is a standing military a good idea - the answer is .. yes.

That would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated opinion. Would you have any validation for this moronic asswipe?
Why is it a good idea for the taxpayers to subsidise the advertising budget of capatilist?
Why is it a good idea to have several million men on the payroll doing fuck all.

But when government has the ability to do things like BLM, WACO, ACA, pretty much in contravention of what its citizens want - its dictating.

The government elected by the people to do the peoples will is dictating? Well then just vote the rascals out.

And as is enshrined in our documents - citizens then have the right and duty to overthrow said government.

Just where in our "enshrined documents" would we find that particular injunction?

ACA is a case in point. Dimocrats knew it was unpopular. The could have opted for incentives, rather than mandates, and picked up republican votes. Snow, Collins - and a handful of others.

They chose not to. They chose to impose a political choice. Tyranny.

Kinda like starting wars of mass deception?

Smaller govt has less power, left or right, to impose its will on the people.
More freedom.

The government of the people,by the people and for the people imposes the will of the people on the people...that is the nature of the u.s. constitution.

I can't even fathom how someone could be opposed.

And yet you are.


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/17/2014 6:40:42 AM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 8:59:55 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

And as is enshrined in our documents - citizens then have the right and duty to overthrow said government.

Just where in our "enshrined documents" would we find that particular injunction?




Its called "the declaration of Independence". You should read it sometime, as clearly they didn't teach it to you while you were sleeping through public school education.

Since you are obviously unfamiliar with it - let me quote you a paragraph.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/17/2014 9:01:06 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 9:19:39 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		As has been pointed out, that refers to old King George, and the declaration of independence is not part of our constitution.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 9:21:29 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		How droll.
Which of the following crimes from that "enshrined document" has the current "king" committed thus justifying your call to treason?

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 9:23:42 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		And, just so it doesn't escape your attention again - I never said it was the constitution.

I said big, bold print "Declaration of Independence".

And while its not our constitution it still is one of the underpinnings of our beliefs, our society. And no, it doesn't just refer to King George any more than Rousseau refers only to the French revolution.

or that voltaire or john locke, or paine, or the federalists, or...are not important to how we think.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/17/2014 9:24:56 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 10:43:06 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The declaration of independence being a document declaring our independence from England, and Rousseau a scribbler of philosophical tracts and various and sundry other essays. Yeah, I see the non-sequitur clearly.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/17/2014 10:45:29 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 11:05:50 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The declaration of independence being a document declaring our independence from England, and Rousseau a scribbler of philosophical tracts and various and sundry other essays. Yeah, I see the non-sequitur clearly.



Clearly, you don't.

Sandefur, principal attorney at the Pacific Legal Foundation, notes that since the 1864 admission of Nevada to statehood, every state’s admission has been conditioned on adoption of a constitution consistent with the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration . The Constitution is the nation’s fundamental law but is not the first law. The Declaration is, appearing on Page 1 of Volume 1 of the U.S. Statutes at Large, and the Congress has placed it at the head of the United States Code, under the caption, “The Organic Laws of the United States of America.” Hence the Declaration “sets the framework” for reading the Constitution not as “basically about” democratic government — majorities — granting rights but about natural rights defining the limits of even democratic government.

Epic fail again ottertail.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/17/2014 11:06:53 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 11:13:15 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The declaration of independence being a document declaring our independence from England, and Rousseau a scribbler of philosophical tracts and various and sundry other essays. Yeah, I see the non-sequitur clearly.



Clearly, you don't.

Sandefur, principal attorney at the Pacific Legal Foundation, notes that since the 1864 admission of Nevada to statehood, every state’s admission has been conditioned on adoption of a constitution consistent with the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration . The Constitution is the nation’s fundamental law but is not the first law. The Declaration is, appearing on Page 1 of Volume 1 of the U.S. Statutes at Large, and the Congress has placed it at the head of the United States Code, under the caption, “The Organic Laws of the United States of America.” Hence the Declaration “sets the framework” for reading the Constitution not as “basically about” democratic government — majorities — granting rights but about natural rights defining the limits of even democratic government.

Epic fail again ottertail.

So says one nut. In reality the Declaration has no bearing on US law. If it did the District could not be taxed.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 11:18:23 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, clearly you don't. Nevada has an unconstitutional law on its books, and therefore it means nothing, and the nutsacker Bundy should be shot for treason and all property sold to pay the bills and his wife and family sent out to suck cock on the street as penance to the American people, whos first amendment rights he is violating.

Timothy Sandefur, an ambulance chaser for the nutsacker based Pacific Legal Foundation, is just another nutsacker whining in the wilderness.

Show me that it is part and parcel of the constitution from SCOTUS rulings (which directly contravene those statements)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The tyranny of Reid/Obama/Kirchner/Chavez... - 4/17/2014 5:43:14 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		http://www.guysmith.org/blog/2014/04/14/aligned-resistance/#more-2894

It comes down to big government dictating to the citizens versus the citizens directing how their government should regulate commerce and protect the states from foreign incursion.


(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 40
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