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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/19/2014 6:04:59 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		There is no nuance to it, Muse. It was President Obama who declared Afghanistan "the right war" and has been sending troops and equipment into the graveyard of empires for the last 5 years. Please recall I've been saying to get the hell out of there through both administrations.

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/19/2014 6:11:27 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You and I both.

I'm just saying there's no difference. Bad policy for over a decade.

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/19/2014 6:36:00 PM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Here's the thing about U.S. involvement -- Ukraine is not a NATO country, BUT, Ukraine gave up its nuclear capacity under the promise we would defend it territorially. We aren't doing that. Right now, Ukrainian leadership is going "DOH! We should have kept the nukes!" And so is every other country we might have reached through negotiation.

That sucks for sure... which is exactly why I think that nuclear non proliferation is a sucker's move. I mean, who could've seen this coming? A bunch of countries WITH nuclear weapons tell a bunch of others not to have them and then bad things occur. Go figure.

In the meantime, I'd like to know how many hundred billion those in favor are willing to spend on this. How many young americans should die for it? How many of our seniors because we stole yet more money from social security to give to CEO's? How many children without health care and/or food? And most of all I'd love to know why our "conservatives" aren't being very fiscally conservative. We have pillaged our economy. We just plain don't have the money to go on little junkets like this. How about "We can't afford it."

Insofar as "never again", that also is just plain stupid. On top of that it's hypocritical as hell. Why should one class of people be protected while we sit and watch slaughter after slaughter happen elsewhere without lifting a finger. No, I'm not impressed by "never again". And despite being an ex-pat I still pay my US taxes and I still have a child in the armed forces so yeah, I think I get an opinion.

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/19/2014 6:39:06 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		Are you expecting someone to disagree with you here?

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 3:39:44 AM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There is no nuance to it, Muse. It was President Obama who declared Afghanistan "the right war" and has been sending troops and equipment into the graveyard of empires for the last 5 years. Please recall I've been saying to get the hell out of there through both administrations.


Obama was always against the Afghan war but yes, it was the right war, and if Bush and his cronies hadnt got sidetracked in Iraq the whole sorry mess would have been over quicker. Both America under Bush and Russia under Putin, wanted unstable countries as buffer zones, you are now getting your wish.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/barack-obama-and-afghanistan-the-inside-story-of-a-war-the-president-never-wanted-9047484.html

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 6:55:30 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I'm sure there is all sorts of stuff in your press, Polite, explaining why you guys have to be in a war we told you to get involved in. Some of us actually were watching the campaign and speeches, as it all came down.

Thanks for being good little lap dogs, though!

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 9:56:57 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Surely the current Ukranian government cant have embezzled much, after just a few weeks in power. Given some are neo facists, I am unsure we can be certain of any claims they make on this topic.

Not the current lot, the bunch who were in power under the President who's fled the country?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 4/20/2014 9:57:12 AM >

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 10:18:34 AM   
FelineRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

OMFG. This should be unbelievable, but alas . . .

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to "register" with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Ukrainian and Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

I'm about to email the embassy; its website includes contact info at the lower right. Also the White House. Any ideas for other ways to fight this?


One brilliant one. Check Snopes first before running off half-cocked trying to score political points with a bunch of people who can't do shit. This is, at best, the actions of some local thugs, not whatever government exists in the area.

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 10:34:31 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Ever see "The Departed," FelineRanger? The bit in the bar, where Leo is first trying to draw a little attention to himself? Be careful who you get snarky with, three days after a story hits the news.



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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 10:37:36 AM   
FelineRanger


Posts: 658
Joined: 9/4/2012
Status: offline 		What does a movie reference have to do with the simple fact that this was not an action taken by whatever government exists in the area? I've already seen this story shot down twice in three days.

< Message edited by FelineRanger -- 4/20/2014 10:39:02 AM >

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 4:25:49 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I'm sure there is all sorts of stuff in your press, Polite, explaining why you guys have to be in a war we told you to get involved in. Some of us actually were watching the campaign and speeches, as it all came down.

Thanks for being good little lap dogs, though!


Comptemptible stuff from you Rich, considering our guys were/are dying alongside yours. First you piss and moan about the French for not getting involved, and now you spout off because we did get involved.

Nice to know you actually watched the campaign speeches, did you actually read the article by Robert Gates, defence secretary for Bush at the time the Afghan war started...... methinks otherwise.

As for me being a lapdog, I have more contempt for Blair than I have ever shown for Bush, but hey, no need for you to recall posts that dont suit your position.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 4:29:10 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

OMFG. This should be unbelievable, but alas . . .

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to "register" with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Ukrainian and Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

I'm about to email the embassy; its website includes contact info at the lower right. Also the White House. Any ideas for other ways to fight this?


One brilliant one. Check Snopes first before running off half-cocked trying to score political points with a bunch of people who can't do shit. This is, at best, the actions of some local thugs, not whatever government exists in the area.


How the fuck was dcnovice. trying to score political points ?

(in reply to FelineRanger)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 7:26:21 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

OMFG. This should be unbelievable, but alas . . .

Jews in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk where pro-Russian militants have taken over government buildings were told they have to "register" with the Ukrainians who are trying to make the city become part of Russia, according to Ukrainian and Israeli media.

Jews emerging from a synagogue say they were handed leaflets that ordered the city's Jews to provide a list of property they own and pay a registration fee "or else have their citizenship revoked, face deportation and see their assets confiscated," reported Ynet News, Israel's largest news website.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

I'm about to email the embassy; its website includes contact info at the lower right. Also the White House. Any ideas for other ways to fight this?


One brilliant one. Check Snopes first before running off half-cocked trying to score political points with a bunch of people who can't do shit. This is, at best, the actions of some local thugs, not whatever government exists in the area.


Which is the same thing that the articles he linked says if you had bothered to read it.


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 8:08:56 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

so far one. USA Today (I am not doubting it is happening, just wouldn't understand why, there are Jews through out Russia)


Not really, most Jews have left Russia since the fall of the USSR. Their lives there were no bargain, but especially since the rise of the Putin thugocracy and the resurgence of the Russian Orthodox Church, who unlike other Christian churches still blames the Jews for Christ's death as a people, and what few Jews are left face real problems. The Russians have a long history of anti semtism, and with the virulent nationalism that Putin has encouraged, it is the bad old days come to life once again.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 8:11:36 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

How the fuck was dcnovice. trying to score political points ?

I wondered that too.

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 8:12:24 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

From Twitter -

Spokesman for pro-Russian council in #Donestk vehemently denies that flyer telling Jews to register is from them. #Ukraine

Yep. I'm betting it's a smear to generate support for the incompetent and increasingly desperate government in Kyiv. They are running short of rabbits to pull out of their hat. The Ukrainian army has no stomach for fighting its own people. In Slovyansk, a force of 16 armored personnel carriers attached to an elite airborne unit abandoned their weapons and vehicles rather than engage villagers who blocked their passage. In Kramatorsk, six Ukrainian army armored personnel carriers and their troops switched sides to join the activists. Every event of this type weaken Kyiv's hand and make them more desperate.

Additionally, there will be no NATO intervention and no Russian annexation. Russia is referring to the activists as "pro-federalists." The more agrarian western region benefits from a forced redistribution of eastern Ukraine's industrial wealth. This is a central issue for the activists along with official recognition of the Russian language. But there is no talk of succession. Russia will intervene if necessary to protect ethnic Russians, but unlike Crimea the activists are not seeking annexation. If any of this information disagrees with news sources you have seen, ignore them. There are games within games afoot.

K.


You believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Putin is trying to put together a new Russian empire and among his goals are annexing places like Eastern Ukraine and other parts where ethnic Russians settled in large numbers during the USSR days. Putin is an autocrat and fancies himself a new kind of Russian emperor or something to that level, and he has his own ideas of a manifest destiny.

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 8:14:22 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Russia today has the 6th largest Jewish population.

The top twelve Jewish populations in the world are:

1. USA 6,500,000

2. Israel 4,950,000

3. France 600,000 (750,000)

4. Canada (5) 364,000

5. Britain (6) 275,000

6. Russia (3/4) 275,000 (650,000)

7. Argentina 197,000 (250,000)

8. Ukraine 112,000

9. Germany 98,000 (115,000)

10. Brazil (11) 97,500

11. South Africa (12) 88,000 (65,000)

12. Hungary (10) 55,000 (100,000)

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 8:15:40 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It seems that no one is accepting responsibility for this notice:link

Whatever, things are really getting nasty out there.

I suppose villifying the Russians makes it morally less worrying to take the Ukranian side.
The fact that the shits in the Ukranian government have been hiding the a lot of the money they've embezzled from their country in UK tax dodges could have something to do with the line Murdoch is taking on them and those whacky Russians, I suppose.

Most of the graft and corruption was with the prior Ukrainian government, that left it bankrupt..and said government was pro Russian. What Putin wants is to put someone who is pro Russian back in power, so he can expand his thugocracy into the Ukraine and elsewhere in the region, it is kind of like the gangster planet in "a piece of the action" on Star Trek.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 8:22:30 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

What does a movie reference have to do with the simple fact that this was not an action taken by whatever government exists in the area? I've already seen this story shot down twice in three days.

It probably isn't the government, it probably is pro russian ethnic russians who are responsible, the same people who are occupying buildings and the like and are probably trying to find a way to get Russia to annex the eastern Ukraine. Whether Russia wants to or not (I think they do), whether they will (not sure),the reality is that Russian culture is far from pro Jewish, and while the focus has been on anti gay laws and such in Russia, Jews , the relative few who are left there, are facing all kinds of discrimination and even attacks.

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RE: Jews Ordered to "Register" in Eastern Ukr... - 4/20/2014 8:26:02 PM   
njlauren


Posts: 1577
Joined: 10/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Russia today has the 6th largest Jewish population.

The top twelve Jewish populations in the world are:

1. USA 6,500,000

2. Israel 4,950,000

3. France 600,000 (750,000)

4. Canada (5) 364,000

5. Britain (6) 275,000

6. Russia (3/4) 275,000 (650,000)

7. Argentina 197,000 (250,000)

8. Ukraine 112,000

9. Germany 98,000 (115,000)

10. Brazil (11) 97,500

11. South Africa (12) 88,000 (65,000)

12. Hungary (10) 55,000 (100,000)

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm


Can't quite figure out what those numbers mean, I assume Russia has 275,000 Jews, which is not a lot given the size of Russia population, and it used to be much larger. There aren't a lot of Jews in the world today, I think it is roughly 16 million, but there used to be a lot more Jews in Russia, most emigrated between the various emigrations in the USSR days, and then after the fall of the USSR.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 60
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