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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 6:09:41 AM

evesgrden

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brispslave

Here is a better question: why would any sane man in the western world want to commit? Give me one benefit of committing.

Once you commit you pretty much give control of your life to someone else. In any divorce proceedings the man loses everything, and women know this. So you commit, and she gets fat and all the power.

Once again, why would any sane man in the western world commit?

Well damn.

Please tell my ex (and the courts) that I want my settlement back.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 6:50:59 AM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brispslave

Here is a better question: why would any sane man in the western world want to commit? Give me one benefit of committing.

Once you commit you pretty much give control of your life to someone else. In any divorce proceedings the man loses everything, and women know this. So you commit, and she gets fat and all the power.

Once again, why would any sane man in the western world commit?

I understand what you're saying, but I have to say - when I read the question, my mind didn't go anywhere near "marriage." I thought the question was about committing. I don't see that the OP says that commitment = marriage.

That being said, if we're talking about commitment and not necessarily marriage, it was my experience (during my brief foray into dating as an adult) that a surprisingly high ratio of men did want a committed relationship. So, experiences vary, I suppose.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 7:17:09 AM

Culdron

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The guys get just as many settlements as the ladies these days, and custody (at least where I'm at) goes 50/50 most of the time. Now personally I'm having trouble finding a guy who wants the level of exclusive non-commitment I'm looking for.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 7:35:13 AM

orgasmdenial12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brispslave

Here is a better question: why would any sane man in the western world want to commit?

Because they like it, want to commit and feel happiest and / or most secure in a committed relationship.

You only have to look at the overwhelming numbers of men on dating and even kink sites like CM who are looking for someone special in order to prove this point. Lots of lonely men looking for love (as are women).

Suggesting that men who like commitment are insane is simply your own dissatisfaction with the typical dating process. I'm guessing that you feel burned by commitment and think things would be a whole lot better for men if they all refused to commit - because then that way women who wanted commitment would have to settle for a different state of affairs. Unfortunately for you, men want commitment as much as women do, meaning you either commit again or fail to gain access to the women you would prefer to be in a sexual or romantic relationship with. Either way, your attitude towards the perceived inequalities of men upon marriage or divorce is likely to be offputting to women. Who would want to marry someone who only sees marriage as a trap and an exploitation? Now you really *would* have to be insane to do that :-)

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 7:36:02 AM

smileforme50

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ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial 12

quote:

I think this is a bit of a cultural myth. There are lots of men who want to commit. In fact studies show that divorced men are the most depressed out of anybody because, for a lot of men, being a good provider for the family is still how they define and express their idea of masculinity. Studies also show that women initiate two thirds of divorces - this suggests that men are both willing and able to commit.

Ummm....maybe the reason two-thirds of divorces are initiated by women is because they are responding to their husbands' having affairs? I'm sure 90% of married men WOULD stay married to their wives if their wives tolerated them having affairs....who wouldn't?

ORIGINAL: Culdron

quote:

The guys get just as many settlements as the ladies these days, and custody (at least where I'm at) goes 50/50 most of the time.

That's what I see most of the time too.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 7:38:59 AM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

Ummm....maybe the reason two-thirds of divorces are initiated by women is because they are responding to their husbands' having affairs? I'm sure 90% of married men WOULD stay married to their wives if their wives tolerated them having affairs....who wouldn't?

That's a pretty broad condemnation.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 8:32:54 AM

Spiritedsub2

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Divorce lawyer here.

SailingBum and Jeff are right; men who want commitment aren’t single for long. Very often, divorcing men already have their new girlfriend lined up before or during the divorce process so they aren’t in the single market at all.

Smileforme50 is right: in the hundreds of divorces I’ve been involved in, infidelity is the primary motivating cause. And most divorces are initiated by women. This is because (in my personal observation only) men don’t want the financial dismemberment that divorce will bring, and choose instead to cheat on the side rather than lose half of what they own. There are of course exceptions to this.

Lookie is right: it’s best to have a good lawyer (and you say the sweetest things).

For the first time ever, I disagree with orgasmdenial12: I don’t observe that men are on collarme and similar sites looking for love. I think women are, hence the abyss. Of course there are exceptions on both sides. I suspect men looking for love choose Match or OKCupid, not kink sites.

An 86 year old divorce lawyer I know, in the practice for many decades, said this when asked why so many people get divorced: “Women get married wanting to change their man, but he doesn’t change. Men get married wanting their woman not to change, but she does.”

My own view: people of both genders are, at differing times in their lives, desirous of commitment. But in only the rarest of cases can commitment to that chosen person be sustained with happiness over the vastly increased lifespan of people in our society.

Just my opinions and observations; YMMV.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 9:14:47 AM

DaddySatyr

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Well, I was the one that filed for divorce. She was the one that couldn't keep her legs together (admittedly, I didn't want monogamy, at the time but didn't realize that until after the marriage ended).

One of the reasons why men might fear commitment (if we're talking marriage) is because divorce laws were written long before the modern advancements of women in this society and men are the ones that stand to lose, monetarily.

In my case, even though I was the "bread winner" yada, yada, yada, what stopped me was the 87% chance of mothers getting custody of the children, even if they really aren't the best parent.

I knew that my son would be better off with me, having custody. What's funny is my wife knew it, too and said so but wouldn't say that she wanted me to have custody so, the court awarded her custody. Forget "best interests of the child". That's bullshit.

Any time someone goes into court, it's a matter of "how much justice can you afford?"

She showed her true colors and I had custody within two years but the damage the courts allowed to happen to my son was (so far) irreversible.

So, while loss of money may be a motivating factor, I can tell you from personal experience that I dragged my feet because of a desire to remain in my son's life and to be a "buffer" for him with his mother.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 9:15:17 AM

orgasmdenial12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
Smileforme50 is right: in the hundreds of divorces I’ve been involved in, infidelity is the primary motivating cause.

Sorry, spiritedsub, you're wrong.

The office for national statistics gave the following percentages.

In 2012, divorces granted to men were for the following reasons:

Adultery - 14%
Behaviour - 37%
Desertion - 1%
Separation of 2 or more years - 49%

In the same year, divorces granted to women were for the following reasons:

Adultery - 14%
Behaviour - 54%
Desertion - 1%
Separation of 2 or more years - 31%

This shows that women are more likely to divorce due to behaviour of the husband, and men are more likely to divorce because the wife has simply left and been gone for several years. In fact, the number of men who waited 5 years or more before divorcing their absent wife was nearly twice as much as the number of women who waited that long (17% as opposed to 9%). We can either conclude that men are less concerned about tackling the paperwork, or more willing to hang on in case the wife comes back.

In either case, only 1 in 7 marriages ended because of adultery.

Granted, it was higher in previous years (but never the top reason). But weirdly, it's *always higher* for the divorces granted to men. Men may or may not be more likely to cheat, but a husband is much more likely to divorce his wife for cheating, than a wife is to divorce her husband for cheating. For example, in 1974, of divorces granted to men, 39% were for the wife's adultery, whereas on 25% were granted to women for the husband's adultery. In any case, separation of 2+ years was the main reason men filed for divorce (49%) and behaviour and separation were the main reason women filed for divorce (33% and 34% respectively).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
For the first time ever, I disagree with orgasmdenial12: I don’t observe that men are on collarme and similar sites looking for love. I think women are, hence the abyss. Of course there are exceptions on both sides. I suspect men looking for love choose Match or OKCupid, not kink sites.

Please note that I did say "men on dating and even kink sites like CM" thus encompassing the whole range of websites from vanilla to kink. Do men come on CM looking for love? I believe so, but I've no idea how to reliably prove it. On the spur of the moment, I looked up the first 10 male profiles on CM. Some of the quotes were very touching:

"I am waiting for you. I have been here waiting to hear the sound of your voice, the touch of your hand, your laughter ever since I first dreamed of you."

"It's something I love, something so important to me - and the deeper I go the more I enjoy. It seems strange to come online and look for someone who enjoys this as much as me - but here I am."

"I have been separated for 3 years and ready to move on but I am still treading carefully for now. I am seeking a longterm relationship with a Woman that I can love and worship, if that is not for you then please move along."

"Im looking to serve, obey the right Mistress, would relocate, from ****** or lots of room at mine"

"I enjoy the sensual aspect of being a Dom as well as the training, bond, and love that can come from a trusting this type of relationship."

"I also love the mental side of M/s or D/s ... the connection that comes with someone special. Without that connection play (I don’t much like the word “play” as, for me, it’s a tad too trite, but what the hell it’ll have to do) seems somehow slightly hollow, and yet with it it’s like taking part in building something special and unique with another girl. Something that will hopefully last in our memories for a lifetime."

Of the posts I looked at, 7 were looking for a serious or long term relationship, 1 said nothing and 2 seemed to be more about kinky play. Yes, it's a pot-shot - I'm not going to try and claim that these results are in any way reliable. But to say that men do not come on CM looking for love is, I feel, incorrect, and hopefully these quotes challenge that.

Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_351693.pdf (page 8 - clicking the link will download an excel table with all the statistics)

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 9:45:47 AM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
Smileforme50 is right: in the hundreds of divorces I’ve been involved in, infidelity is the primary motivating cause.

Sorry, spiritedsub, you're wrong.
<snip>

How is it that I am wrong given the statistics you cite, when I stated at the very outset that I was only speaking of my observations of the divorces I have personally participated in? We all know what Mark Twain said about statistics, which is why I speak here only about what I've seen, and did not claim that my observations reflect all of reality.

Regarding men on CM and kink sites looking for love, I don't base my observation on what they claim in selected profiles, but on my own interactions with them. I have had men who claim to be looking for love send me a picture of their dick as their opening salvo, or attempt to start highly sexualized conversations within a few exchanged messages. Not all men, but many. So I do draw conclusions about the goals of many men here that may differ from their profile posturing.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 10:07:09 AM

BitYakin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
Smileforme50 is right: in the hundreds of divorces I’ve been involved in, infidelity is the primary motivating cause.

Sorry, spiritedsub, you're wrong.
<snip>

How is it that I am wrong given the statistics you cite, when I stated at the very outset that I was only speaking of my observations of the divorces I have personally participated in? We all know what Mark Twain said about statistics, which is why I speak here only about what I've seen, and did not claim that my observations reflect all of reality.

Regarding men on CM and kink sites looking for love, I don't base my observation on what they claim in selected profiles, but on my own interactions with them. I have had men who claim to be looking for love send me a picture of their dick as their opening salvo, or attempt to start highly sexualized conversations within a few exchanged messages. Not all men, but many. So I do draw conclusions about the goals of many men here that may differ from their profile posturing.

did you stop to think that MAYBE because they are on a kink site that what they think the women they are contacting are LOOKING FOR?

how silly is it to expect people on a SEXUAL site won't talk about SEX in their opening salvo

MAYBE they think since it is a KINK site they need to show their KINKYNESS ASAP or be ignored

we all know you girls get 100 messages a day, and if OUR MAIL doesn't peak your interest RIGHT AWAY we will be lost in the pile, so they send what they THINK is tantalizing to you

they have stated they seek LOVE in their profiles, but ALSO know they have to make an IMPRESSION IMMEDIATLY

you'll not find the word LOVE in my profile ANYPLACE, but if you think I am NOT HUMAN and incapable of LOVE or have NO NEED to be loved you are mistaken

I take the REVERSE approach, I look for someone compatible in the sexual areas also music movies etc etc etc then assume if those things are RIGHT the love will probably come over time

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 4/20/2014 10:14:31 AM >

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 10:16:48 AM

orgasmdenial12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2
Smileforme50 is right: in the hundreds of divorces I’ve been involved in, infidelity is the primary motivating cause.

Sorry, spiritedsub, you're wrong.
<snip>

How is it that I am wrong given the statistics you cite, when I stated at the very outset that I was only speaking of my observations of the divorces I have personally participated in?

Well, you stated that Smileforme50 was right. Their statement was:

quote:

maybe the reason two-thirds of divorces are initiated by women is because they are responding to their husbands' having affairs? I'm sure 90% of married men WOULD stay married to their wives if their wives tolerated them having affairs

Since they stated the original statistics, and you stated they were correct, then it seemed appropriate to use a reliable source to challenge that statistic. Of course, I can't comment at all on your experience in divorces, although it seems you may be picking up more than your fair share of the adultery workload.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 10:33:58 AM

Spiritedsub2

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edit: responding to BitYakin

I think reading people's profiles before messaging them can be helpful. For example, when I read a profile belonging to a man who seems interesting, who includes his intention to be poly, I then do not message him. I respect his preferences and my own, and don't waste his time or mine.

If a man thinks my profile is interesting, he would know from reading it that I am interested in a full relationship, not just a sexual one. And if he has any prior (successful) experience with women, he will know that for many or perhaps most women, the sexuality comes later, not at the start.

If you have found that starting with the sexuality first is the best way to create the long term monomamous relationship you're in, then power to you. Things work differently for each of us. Bear in mind that this site is also for people looking for D/s, separate and apart from BDSM. So it's not just a sex site, though perhaps it is for you.

< Message edited by Spiritedsub2 -- 4/20/2014 10:34:28 AM >

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 10:33:59 AM

FelineRanger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

My own view: people of both genders are, at differing times in their lives, desirous of commitment. But in only the rarest of cases can commitment to that chosen person be sustained with happiness over the vastly increased lifespan of people in our society.

In this whole thread, this is the only statement I agree with. In my observations, including my own divorce, the claims of 50/50 splits and palimony are complete and utter bullshit. Even some 20 years after my own divorce, the cases I am aware of continue to function under the philosophy that states, "If you have a vagina, you are the superior parent and are entitled by virtue of said vagina to any portion of your former husband's paycheck you desire." Further, palimony only exists in cases where there are obscene amounts of money involved. Essentially, it's a payoff for a sugar baby who decided she didn't want to deal with the concealed kinks of her sugar daddy anymore. And, no, I'm not apologizing in the least for my obvious bitterness.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 10:40:45 AM

DaddySatyr

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THIS, one thousand times:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

Bear in mind that this site is also for people looking for D/s, separate and apart from BDSM. So it's not just a sex site, though perhaps it is for you.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 10:41:48 AM

Spiritedsub2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

My own view: people of both genders are, at differing times in their lives, desirous of commitment. But in only the rarest of cases can commitment to that chosen person be sustained with happiness over the vastly increased lifespan of people in our society.

In this whole thread, this is the only statement I agree with. In my observations, including my own divorce, the claims of 50/50 splits and palimony are complete and utter bullshit. Even some 20 years after my own divorce, the cases I am aware of continue to function under the philosophy that states, "If you have a vagina, you are the superior parent and are entitled by virtue of said vagina to any portion of your former husband's paycheck you desire." Further, palimony only exists in cases where there are obscene amounts of money involved. Essentially, it's a payoff for a sugar baby who decided she didn't want to deal with the concealed kinks of her sugar daddy anymore. And, no, I'm not apologizing in the least for my obvious bitterness.

Yes, it is most common for people's opinions on the fairness of the entire divorce/custody legal arena to be based solely on their own divorce or custody case. For me, I've not been divorced myself or been a party to a custody case, so my views are based on what I observe, not on what has happened to me. I know you've posted on these forums that you are a former convicted felon; in my professional experience that can hurt men and women in their pursuit of child custody and child/spousal support.

And again in my professional experience (yeah, getting bored of the endless fucking disclaimer), and in California only, which is where I practice, the spouse who earns more money is the one who pays support. Not just the men. These days particularly, women are often the higher earning spouse.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 11:21:37 AM

FieryOpal

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Hey dude, you are lunching if you think quizzicalkitten made a personal attack. Your posts reek of sourness, and I wonder how much of it is due to payback for subterfuge? As in also Actively Seeking Male-Dom couples when not listing oneself as being Bisexual?

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: brispslave

Here is a better question: why would any sane man in the western world want to commit?

Because they like it, want to commit and feel happiest and / or most secure in a committed relationship.

You only have to look at the overwhelming numbers of men on dating and even kink sites like CM who are looking for someone special in order to prove this point. Lots of lonely men looking for love (as are women).

Suggesting that men who like commitment are insane is simply your own dissatisfaction with the typical dating process. I'm guessing that you feel burned by commitment and think things would be a whole lot better for men if they all refused to commit - because then that way women who wanted commitment would have to settle for a different state of affairs. Unfortunately for you, men want commitment as much as women do, meaning you either commit again or fail to gain access to the women you would prefer to be in a sexual or romantic relationship with. Either way, your attitude towards the perceived inequalities of men upon marriage or divorce is likely to be offputting to women. Who would want to marry someone who only sees marriage as a trap and an exploitation? Now you really *would* have to be insane to do that :-)

Both spiritedsub and orgasmdenial are correct in their own ways. Experientially, most of the married couples I've known have divorced as a result of the husband's infidelity. The husband has WITHOUT EXCEPTION had his next wife already lined up and was dragging his feet to preserve shared assets. With two older sets of relatives, the couples were separated for around a decade without ever seeking formal dissolution.

Haven't most states had no-fault divorces over the past 30 years or more, thus exempt from statistical categorization? My ex and I went that route. My own reason for seeking a divorce was due to his behavior and repeated refusals to seek counseling, and infidelity was not an issue for either of us.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 11:39:24 AM

PeonForHer

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FR

I had every intention of posting on this thread till I suddenly saw a more attractive one elsewhere. Sorry.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 11:41:50 AM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
FR
I had every intention of posting on this thread till I suddenly saw a more attractive one elsewhere. Sorry.

You cheeky cad, you.

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RE: Why do guys not like to commit? - 4/20/2014 11:49:46 AM

Spiritedsub2

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