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RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 3:22:58 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



And as usual with fk, apples are not oranges.
Ie not covering your costs has no bearing or relation to whether funds are diverted.




Lets see..the blm took in 21 million in fees spent 144 million. Could you please explane how any of that 21 million could have been diverted to non blm issues?



You are just trolling.

The BLM receives fees for cattle grazing.

It chooses how to spend those fees. For example, perhaps it hosts a star trek convention, as the IRS did recently.

So. Once again, (in 2nd grade english). Where fees originate has nothing to do with how they are spent.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 3:51:51 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



And as usual with fk, apples are not oranges.
Ie not covering your costs has no bearing or relation to whether funds are diverted.




Lets see..the blm took in 21 million in fees spent 144 million. Could you please explane how any of that 21 million could have been diverted to non blm issues?



You are just trolling.

The BLM receives fees for cattle grazing.

It chooses how to spend those fees. For example, perhaps it hosts a star trek convention, as the IRS did recently.

So. Once again, (in 2nd grade english). Where fees originate has nothing to do with how they are spent.



It wasnt a convention, it was a training video that was a star trek parody.

The blim grazing fees, timber harvesting fees, and other land use fees stay within the BLM. Those fees are used to maintain access roads and trails in the BLM controlled recreation areas.

The BLM also collects money from oil and gas drilling operations on Federal Lands, including Indian Reservation Lands the BLM controls instead of the tribe on the reservation. For example the BLM has given out mining permits, oil and gas permits on Reservation lands that the Federal Government controls in a stewardship system for the Native Americans.

Technically any money the BLM makes on these particular lands is to go to the tribe to be used for projects to improve conditions on the reservations. If you google poverty levels on Indian Reservations, you will see how much of that money is used in that fashion.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 4:04:56 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



And as usual with fk, apples are not oranges.
Ie not covering your costs has no bearing or relation to whether funds are diverted.




Lets see..the blm took in 21 million in fees spent 144 million. Could you please explane how any of that 21 million could have been diverted to non blm issues?



You are just trolling.

The BLM receives fees for cattle grazing.

It chooses how to spend those fees. For example, perhaps it hosts a star trek convention, as the IRS did recently.

So. Once again, (in 2nd grade english). Where fees originate has nothing to do with how they are spent.



It wasnt a convention, it was a training video that was a star trek parody.

The blim grazing fees, timber harvesting fees, and other land use fees stay within the BLM. Those fees are used to maintain access roads and trails in the BLM controlled recreation areas.

The BLM also collects money from oil and gas drilling operations on Federal Lands, including Indian Reservation Lands the BLM controls instead of the tribe on the reservation. For example the BLM has given out mining permits, oil and gas permits on Reservation lands that the Federal Government controls in a stewardship system for the Native Americans.

Technically any money the BLM makes on these particular lands is to go to the tribe to be used for projects to improve conditions on the reservations. If you google poverty levels on Indian Reservations, you will see how much of that money is used in that fashion.


Yeah jlf - I don't actually have a beef with the blm in specific. I don't know it wastes more or less money than anyother govt agency.

I merely pointed out that DomKens assertion that the BLM couldn't divert funds was factually untrue. Which it is.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 4:13:43 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Sure...

It is always amazing that certain people deny watching Hannity or listening to Rush but when they post a new thread it is right out of the blowhards last show.



Got somebody in mind, Ken? You sure the fuck aren't talking about me.


_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 5:16:01 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



And as usual with fk, apples are not oranges.
Ie not covering your costs has no bearing or relation to whether funds are diverted.




Lets see..the blm took in 21 million in fees spent 144 million. Could you please explane how any of that 21 million could have been diverted to non blm issues?



You are just trolling.

The BLM receives fees for cattle grazing.

The blm receives fees for many things in addition to cattle graizing.

It chooses how to spend those fees.

It may only spend those fees for that which is in the budget.

For example, perhaps it hosts a star trek convention, as the IRS did recently.

That would be an ignorant unsubstantiated opinion. The irs did not recently host a star treck convention. The irs made a 6 minuite training film which it showed at a training convention for irs employees...the convention cost a little over 4 million the film cost less than 10 thousand.

So. Once again, (in 2nd grade english).


You seem to be pretty good with 2nd grade english.

Where fees originate has nothing to do with how they are spent.

Since more than 80% of the blm budget comes from the general fund (as in taxpayers) I would say you have a pretty firm grasp of the obvious.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 5:21:57 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		I don't know it wastes more or less money than anyother govt agency.

You don't even know if it waste money and yet feel competent to critique it?

I merely pointed out that DomKens assertion that the BLM couldn't divert funds was factually untrue. Which it is.

Actually you have not proved shit. Is it your assertion that the training vidio for the irs was a diversion of funds?


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/26/2014 5:35:26 PM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 5:23:42 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Sure...

It is always amazing that certain people deny watching Hannity or listening to Rush but when they post a new thread it is right out of the blowhards last show.



Got somebody in mind, Ken? You sure the fuck aren't talking about me.





(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 6:13:36 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Sure...

It is always amazing that certain people deny watching Hannity or listening to Rush but when they post a new thread it is right out of the blowhards last show.



Got somebody in mind, Ken? You sure the fuck aren't talking about me.


I surely am. Every time you post a thread I check Drudge and lo and behold it is a headline there.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/26/2014 6:15:14 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Yeah jlf - I don't actually have a beef with the blm in specific. I don't know it wastes more or less money than anyother govt agency.

I merely pointed out that DomKens assertion that the BLM couldn't divert funds was factually untrue. Which it is.


Try that again, BLM took in $21 million but spent $144 million. Which of that -$123 million could they have diverted?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 6:46:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Your faulty reading into my statement is an error on your part, Ken.

There is no fault in my reading. You wrote a statement. I read it literally. That is the only possible way to do so. It was factually wrong and I pointed out that it was wrong and the obvious source of such a claim was wrong and you get pissy. Not my fault.

You didn't comprehend what was written. Obviously, you still don't. And, you refuse to answer a point blank question because you know what will happen when you answer it.
Do you think BLM fee revenues should stay within the BLM for BLM programs?

I comprehended what was written exactly. That you wish that you had written more clearly is not my fault. You believed that it was possible that the BLM could divert grazing fees to some other activity because the right wing media had been telling you it was doing so and you believed it. Not my fault and not my fault that you got pissy when called on it.
I don't play gotcha games. You got the wrong person. go find someone else to troll.


You continue to trumpet the RWM bullshit. Guess what, Ken. You're full of shit. I suppose that's why all you can do is spew it.

You can't comprehend me. I get it. You think you know me. You're fucking wrong. Again, and again, and again.

All BLM grazing fees should stay within the BLM for BLM projects. I support that statement as much as I supported it at any time. There was no claim, by me, that those fees were going to be diverted. That was MercTech's assertion of what Clinton was going to do in 1993.

When did you note that MercTech is the RWM?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 7:44:38 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Sure...

It is always amazing that certain people deny watching Hannity or listening to Rush but when they post a new thread it is right out of the blowhards last show.



Got somebody in mind, Ken? You sure the fuck aren't talking about me.


I surely am. Every time you post a thread I check Drudge and lo and behold it is a headline there.



Maybe Drudge, (who isn't Hannity or Rush, but we all know how much you like moving goalposts) reads some of the same feeds I do, but since I highly doubt Drudge is all over the second go-round pending release of the Pillowcase Rapist into my part of the world (last thread I started) I think you are just up to your usual lying sack of shit nonsense.

Yes, Ken. I just called you a fucking liar. Are we clear on that? Welcome to the dungeon, bitch.

The first detailed information I got regarding the story that formed the basis for this thread came from, wait for it... this thread. I have no idea what's been said on Drudge, or Fox, or on MSNBC, because I don't watch the channels or view the sites. I have this thing called a "job," where all sorts of interesting stuff comes across my desk. I get my headlines off Google News, BBC, the LA Times and WP, and I like the way RCP lines up the point/counterpoint on opinion pieces. Any and all opinions I form on such news are my own.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 10:45:46 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Any and all opinions I form on such news are my own.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 11:13:20 AM   
OwnerFiftyNine


Posts: 100
Joined: 4/27/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Why after 18 years did they decide it was such a big deal
that it justified sending an armed strike force?




The "armed strike force" your buddies pointed assault riffles at, were all US military veterans,law enforcement officers, who were enforcing a legal court order.....


They showed great restraint and maturity, while your buddies verbally threatened their lives......Did you know making terroristic threats is a crime....?

The President very deftly pulled back the rangers and robbed the lunatic fringe of a Waco type event....So sorry,republicans.....

So America has learned.....? That the feds acted lawfully and with restraint...... And that republicans have gone from tolerating domestic terrorists to embracing and openly promoting them....

Now that we know bundy is an ignorant bigotted douche bag and welfare queen,we welcome the further embarrassment of the geopee and their embrace of this republican white trash....

It shows who the good guys are and who the domestic terrorists are......I`m ok with that.





< Message edited by OwnerFiftyNine -- 4/27/2014 11:16:40 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 11:47:53 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

When did you note that MercTech is the RWM?



BTW, what's a "RWM"?

The BLM has been accused of misuse of public funds over and over again for decades. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. The Bundy family has made that accusation since the early 90s.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 12:42:00 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

When did you note that MercTech is the RWM?



BTW, what's a "RWM"?

The BLM has been accused of misuse of public funds over and over again for decades. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. The Bundy family has made that accusation since the early 90s.





1, Bundy as claimed BLM misuse of funds since the 90's.

2) Bundy has repeatedly made statements that the federal government does not exist or has no legal authority.

3) So in 93, Bundy decides not to pay anyone anything for grazing cattle on federally owned lands.

4) Bundy has made statements about the problems of welfare as have many conservatives who support him.

Someone want to explain the difference between welfare and grazing cattle for free on federal land? Bundy is nothing more than a welfare recipient and rancher who is making money at government expense.

Since that 1.1 million not spent to cover grazing fees can be considered income, audit his ass, have the IRS take his ranch, and put the bastard in jail for tax evasion.

By the way, if he truly believes the Federal Government either does not exist or has no authority, he cant really complain about it either.

This guy is a moron, the 'militia' groups supporting his ass are in the same boat as the armed civilians that Washington dealt with in the Whiskey Rebellion.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 2:16:07 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
When did you note that MercTech is the RWM?

BTW, what's a "RWM"?
The BLM has been accused of misuse of public funds over and over again for decades. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. The Bundy family has made that accusation since the early 90s.


RWM = Right Wing Media.

Ken has accused me of being little more than a parrot for the right wing media. He calls it the "right wing lie machine." Since I got my information from your post, you must, as his "logic" contends, be part of the RWM.




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/27/2014 4:26:30 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri



RWM = Right Wing Media.

Ken has accused me of being little more than a parrot for the right wing media. He calls it the "right wing lie machine."



< Message edited by thompsonx -- 4/27/2014 4:29:41 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/28/2014 7:04:27 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		FR,

I just read something crazy. An offline person challenged the notion that the BLM has Constitutional Authority to exist. I figured it woudl be claimed under the "Necessary and Proper" and "General Welfare" clauses within the Dept. of the Interior. Since I didn't know, I went to a website to look into it. Since it challenges assertions put out by the liberal posters here, I guess it's a RWLM site...

    quote:

    The BLM does its complex and challenging work with an annual budget of more than $1 billion and a workforce of about 10,000 full-time employees. The BLM is one of a handful of Federal agencies that generates more revenue for the United States than it spends. For example, in Fiscal Year 2012, nearly $5 billion will be generated by activities on BLM-managed lands, including an estimated $4.3 billion from onshore oil and gas development, with about half of those revenues going to the states where the mineral leasing occurred.


SOURCE

Apparently, the BLM does raise more money than it spends, overall, counter to some claims here.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/28/2014 8:30:54 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-568.html

One can always check the legal statutes and see if you think Bundy has a case or is farting out the mouth.

I am weary of politicians and media talking heads stamping the feet and screaming "terrorist" at anyone that disagrees with them.

Dictionary definition of "terrorist"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism
FBI definition of terrorism
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

Interesting that the FBI definition seems to be so inclusive that every person that ever attended a protest of about anything could now be considered a "terrorist".

quote:

Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Accusations and the facts. - 4/28/2014 8:55:40 AM   
OwnerFiftyNine


Posts: 100
Joined: 4/27/2014
Status: offline 		This, is a terrorist....







Pointing a loaded riffle at LEOs and threatening them is terrorism....


General reply.....


One common characteristic our domestic terrorists share is not recognizing the federal government.


koresh, bundy, mcveigh,weaver,frazier glenn crossmost "militias" all think they are above the law and can do whatever they please and steal whatever they want..........if it`s not nailed down.



(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 100
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