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RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 1:00:35 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

But really, if Sir needs a drink or sexual release or simple physical contact, how is providing any of them any less a service than anything else?

I liked this a lot! An actual event high lighted this for me several weeks ago. I spent the afternoon doing yard work. When I was coming out of the shower, I had in mind that I would ask Master if he was ready for me to prepare dinner. He was in the bedroom and called me in, what he wanted was sexual service. I don't see how that was any less substantial than if he had required dinner.

And from Puella:

quote:

We, all of us, are capable of making something holy. Making anything and any act sacred. It is in that knowing that I think I found the transformation of even something as mundane as bringing food to his table, an act very similar to a sacrament, when that awareness was 'turned on'. I think that awareness must be on at the same time by both people, as well.

I thought this was an excellent way to put it.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to HollyS)

Post #: 21

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 1:13:14 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

I'm not entirely sure how to answer your question Celeste, partly because I'm not 100% sure what you are asking.

For me personally, BDSM is not all about sex. However, sex is a part of it.

I think most of what people do falls into one of three categories.

A style of sexual relationship - For these it very much is all about sex. It just how they like their sex. Outside of sex they may be very nilla or mostly nilla or whatever, but their focus is on combining kink with sex.
A style of relationship - For these its about personal, intimate relationships, which includes sex but isn't exclusively about that. They may not be dominant or submissive outside that relationship, but it is the what they want within it.
A style of life - These are those individuals who take its an approach to dealing with life in general. They're the ones who tend to be dominant or submissive in every aspect of their life. It not just about personal relationships, it shows up in friendships, work, etc. They often have value systems, philosophies, etc. as part of that style of life.

All three are valid, they're just different choices. I think where confusion and misunderstanding come in to it is when you have say... someone who is seeking a style of sexual relationship tries to hook up with someone who seeks a style of life, their goals just don't match and conflict inevitably follows.

So far as service goes, it can take a lot of forms, I think HollyS covered that very well already. You said service that has validity or value, but that's subjective. Value to whom? The dominant presumably. What that dominant values will depend on their style of relationship and style of control... or more directly, on their goals and what they want. What might be of value to me may very well not be of value to another.

Something else that came up in this thread got me to thinking though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazybutterfly

I think that most of us know that it should include more than sex.. or be more than based on it. It is hard to remember that though when you first start talking to a Dom and he asks "Are you a cumslut?, Will you do anal?, What's your favorite position? etc..."

*laughs* So true, Andrea. I can honestly say that among the hundreds of questions I've been asked, I've never once been asked whether I can cook, sew, clean house, change a tire, speak a foreign language, balance a checkbook, plan a fundraiser, earn a decent income, or any number of other talents or abilities that might make me a more desirable submissive. Yet, I've been asked every one of the intimate and sexual questions you've mentioned, and more.

I thought about that because, frankly, its true. The sexual questions get asked more than anything else. Even with me, I value a variety of forms of service, I want someone who can be a good companion, I look for creativity expressed in various forms (artistic, musical, literary, etc.), I have asked if they can cook, clean, speak any other languages, have hobbies, etc.; and yet sitting here being honest with myself I realize I ask those same sexual questions a lot. But why?

The first answer that comes to my mind is that the sexual expression of submission is a very powerful form of expression. Having a slave fix me breakfast is nice, its service and it is a form of submission. Having her fix me breakfast while completely naked, then serve it up using her own body as a plate is... well... a heck of a lot more memorable! It also seems far more submissive. I think its a societal thing, the way we treat sex and sexuality in general, that makes it work this way. I also think its partly because sexual surrender is very personal and intimate. I have female friends who will fix me breakfast, but they don't sleep with me or cook for me naked (well, not most of them), there's nothing particularly intimate about that. So I suppose a slave who cooks breakfast, or runs errands, or cleans house, etc. doesn't seem as "special" or intimate or memorable because most have had a variety of people do those things. But sexual submission is different, its very personal, and it sends a very strong message of submission when someone will surrender their body to you sexually for your pleasure, to use as you see fit.

I've never considered myself a sadist, though I can be very sadistic at times. But its not their pain I get off on. Its that a submissive is willing to suffer for me to please me, for my pleasure, that does it for me. Because again that is a very strong message of submission.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 22

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 1:51:55 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

I've never considered myself a sadist, though I can be very sadistic at times. But its not their pain I get off on. Its that a submissive is willing to suffer for me to please me, for my pleasure, that does it for me. Because again that is a very strong message of submission.

Padriag that last paragraph (Hightlighted) was utterly beautiful.

That sums up wonderfully.

Peace and Rapture

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 7/9/2006 2:32:50 PM >

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Padriag)

Post #: 23

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 2:25:56 PM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

It seems to me that no matter the "type" of submissive one might be, as long as one's attentions, intentions and actions are from the heart and in keeping with one's dominant, "service" is very full, rich and satisfying for all.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 24

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 3:08:46 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I know many embrace BDSM M/s D/s as a means to an end, the end being sexual activity akin to the 'BDSM' is all about sex school of thought.

This question is directed to anyone, but especially for those who believe that BDSM is, indeed, all about sex.

What is service with substance? What does it mean to you? Do you require service from your submissive? If submissive, do you provide service? Do you view sexual activities (blow jobs, fucking, etc.) as a service? Is service with substance or substantial service something you seek out in a partner, something you want a potential partner to see in you?

If BDSM is all about sex, does that mean there is a place for the 'do-me' submissive as long as the end result is some form of sexual act?

For the purpose of this thread, I'm defining 'substance' like substantial.. I.E. content or essence as opposed to form; of real importance, value or validity. Feel free to provide your own definitions in your answer.

Celeste

Bita... before I even read any of these responses... I'm going to answer you straight up. I personally do not see it all as sexual. And got a long list of doms that no longer talk to me because I tell them straight up.. if all you want to talk about is sex... sexual positions... scenes.. etc... we really do not have nothing to talk about. Got another list that as soon as they turn it to sex ... I lose interest real fast. Some because of previous discussions I try to "excuse it" and go with the flow because we might of reached that point. But when it becomes the main topic.. I lose interest. I know it's got nothing to do with me turning 40 next month. I still enjoy sex. I still play with a couple of doms that we've agreed no further involvement. So I do not know what it is.

Now if you would of asked me this question about 15-20 years ago....I probably would of said yes. After my first Master past...and I was able to learn more of the sexual side of it all....I was wild as hell. I guess when motherhood and responsiblity showed up..and about 6 years in a M/s.... I still prefer the full M/s... not just sex. I'm sure one day I'll stumble across it..... might take me longer now that I'm still not actively seeking. Or as said in other threads... weeding out the bad apples...

Ok .. i've said my mind on this.. thanks for the thread... now I think I'll go read others responses to it as well....

Jessica

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 25

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 3:14:06 PM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

I'm replying to a whole bunch of thoughts in this great thread, but I thought I'd start with Caretakr, because I have a different perspective on the same sort of history I think he and I share:

quote:

The whole "focus on sex" thing just brings me back to the randcid taste left in my mouth over the years by a string of do-me bottoms I was silly enough to cater to.

If sex is offered without an inherent desire for more than that-it leaves me quite limp now.

I'm not regretting the "do-me bottoms" of my past relationships, but I will say that having a service oriented submissive in my life is an eye, and soul, opening experience.

My past relationships involved some service (more in the longer term ones) but it was mostly sexual. I have had one relationship that was entirely non-sexual and service oriented in a very formal set of circumstances. The difference -- which I'm learning to wrap my head around with my darling girl -- is that service to Me, for her, is as gratifying as sex -- or even, dare I say it, more so? No, I don't think holly has an orgasm everytime I ask her to prepare a simple meal for us, or to lay out my clothes prior to a meeting, but I do see in her care and attention a sort of release, and both of us have a tremendous emotional satisfaction. There is also the incredible comfort of being together (something that we savor because we are not 24/7) but there is also satisfaction in her completing an (obviously) non-sexual task and emailing the result .

Puella talks about making it "holy" and that is a very good description. And yes, puella, I think many of us "get it" through your very lucid post. I will say that for me, seeing service as "holy" can be a bit off putting. Not because the service is not respected, but because there is a touch of self-doubt that I am worthy of her service! (Look, See...there IS a speck of self-effacement in here, still! Wow. Catch it quick girl, it will undoubtedly vanish in my huge Dominant ego.) I honor my submissive when she provides service. I see it as a very natural order for us. Through this, I've learned to honor the service provided by others to their Dominants as well.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to Caretakr)

Post #: 26

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 3:14:41 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Sexual service does not have to be part of submission, but submission does have to be part of sexual service.

Now here is a statement.. that to me personally... says it all...

Thank you Dark...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 27

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 3:24:42 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

What is service with substance? What does it mean to you?

Time to answer my own question. ::chuckles::

Service with substance in M/s for me, means those things I do or perform for no reason other than the M/s relationship in which I'm engaged.

For example. I would have to go grocery shopping whether I lived alone or with someone else. To me, that's not service, that's taking care of the business of living.

While I'm at the store, I would buy Himself apples. I don't eat apples so that to me is performing a service for him when I buy him apples. It goes somewhat beyond what I would normally do. However, I would pick up some apples for a roommate if they asked as well, so not necessarily simply because it's based on an M/s dynamic.. still though, I see that as a service. I'm going out of my way for someone else and doing something I would not normally do.

Then there is the fact that I spend so much time picking out his apples, making sure they are blemish free, making sure they smell good and look good .. making sure they are the best apples the store has to offer ... that, to me, is performing service with substance. For a roommate, they get whatever apples are available and I'm not spending a whole hell of a lot of time to pick them out. For Himself, because of the M/s dynamic, because I want him to be pleased with the apples I've chosen for him and in turn be pleased with me, it is done solely because of the fact that he is Master and I am slave.

quote:

Do you require service from your submissive? If submissive, do you provide service?

He does and I do and whenever possible, it is, indeed, service with substance.

quote:

Do you view sexual activities (blow jobs, fucking, etc.) as a service?

I do not because it is something in which I would engage regardless of the dynamic we share simply because I am his wife and it never going above and beyond the call of duty to engage in any form of sexuality activity with him.

quote:

Is service with substance or substantial service something you seek out in a partner, something you want a potential partner to see in you?

Whether or not Himself sees the service I perform as something substantial does not change the service I perform, so it is not something which I would expect to be pointed out or which I would point out every time it's done. It is important that "I" am aware of it because that's the sort of submission that I believe is best for me to give to fulfill myself as a submissive person. I stop and 'think' about how to best do that.. or is that one better than this one.. will he be pleased more if it's done earlier or later.. things of that nature. It helps to keep me focused on him and what's pleasing to him and it doesn't need acknowledgment. In fact, I think he rather expects it by now.

quote:

If BDSM is all about sex, does that mean there is a place for the 'do-me' submissive as long as the end result is some form of sexual act?

To me, BDSM is all about play, M/s is all about service and power .. and sex is all about sex. Three separate issues which sometimes mesh together very well. There is room for everyone and someone somewhere will appreciate the do-me just as much as someone somewhere else appreciates the slave. So, yes, there is plenty of room for everyone.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 28

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 3:54:54 PM

Caretakr

Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

I'm replying to a whole bunch of thoughts in this great thread, but I thought I'd start with Caretakr, because I have a different perspective on the same sort of history I think he and I share:

quote:

The whole "focus on sex" thing just brings me back to the randcid taste left in my mouth over the years by a string of do-me bottoms I was silly enough to cater to.

If sex is offered without an inherent desire for more than that-it leaves me quite limp now.

I'm not regretting the "do-me bottoms" of my past relationships, but I will say that having a service oriented submissive in my life is an eye, and soul, opening experience.

My past relationships involved some service (more in the longer term ones) but it was mostly sexual. I have had one relationship that was entirely non-sexual and service oriented in a very formal set of circumstances. The difference -- which I'm learning to wrap my head around with my darling girl -- is that service to Me, for her, is as gratifying as sex -- or even, dare I say it, more so? No, I don't think holly has an orgasm everytime I ask her to prepare a simple meal for us, or to lay out my clothes prior to a meeting, but I do see in her care and attention a sort of release, and both of us have a tremendous emotional satisfaction. There is also the incredible comfort of being together (something that we savor because we are not 24/7) but there is also satisfaction in her completing an (obviously) non-sexual task and emailing the result .

Puella talks about making it "holy" and that is a very good description. And yes, puella, I think many of us "get it" through your very lucid post. I will say that for me, seeing service as "holy" can be a bit off putting. Not because the service is not respected, but because there is a touch of self-doubt that I am worthy of her service! (Look, See...there IS a speck of self-effacement in here, still! Wow. Catch it quick girl, it will undoubtedly vanish in my huge Dominant ego.) I honor my submissive when she provides service. I see it as a very natural order for us. Through this, I've learned to honor the service provided by others to their Dominants as well.

E.

While I don't regret the experience I got with the bottoms, I do regret the choices I made, in desiring to play with them.

And the reasons I had for getting into it to begin with-but those choices are on my head, and no one else's. You see, those choices fostered only entertainment, nothing more.

Ultimately, I find the intimacy of sharing a common vision,and day to day life together, to be for more emotionally saitsfying than anything one can do with BDSM.

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 29

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 3:55:40 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear BitaTrouble, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Service with Substance will be as wide in variety as there are people practicing a D/s and or M/s relationship.

I go on more what the 'intent' of the relationship as well as the 'intent' of how sex comes into the element of service.

Service includes all things that enhances the Master/Mistress and the slave/submissive is rewarded in return in many levels but, not just 'sex.'

My premise of thought, is that anybody can have sex. Not everybody can have a M/s and or D/s relationship.

I find myself more interested in those individuals who understand this lifestyle is not all rosey but, reality. Nobody should expect to be caged 24/7 and 365 days. Those driven by sex need a break every once in a while and that needs to be understood. Although the women have it better, the men need to gather themselves per se; but of course splinting would do wonders if it was comfortable for the receiver.

Respectfully submitted with a tad of wit,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 30

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 3:55:43 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

Well I will be the first to admit the sexual part is very, very attractive. But it's only part of the reason I am interested in all this. There are many ways I can feel submisive and express that side of me; cooking someone a wonderful dinner, buying them the books they want, doing clerical work for them, keeping a house spotlessly clean (I excel there), and just asking: Is there anything you need? are all things I like to do for someone else, and that make me feel I am helping their life be more pleasant. Especially doing little chores they might need done- whatever those might be I guess. But- I really seem to need/appreciate feedback; hugs, thank-yous, oh, you did a good job, etc. - I thrive on that. If I got no feedback at all, it would almost seem like punishment to me, sometimes. Of course, if one has been married, one has already been "trained" that some behavior is just expected and praise may not be forthcoming, lol!

Do I sound bitter? I'm not (really, I'm not). Actually, there are some things one could probably take for granted in a relationship; I said "thanks" if my husband took the garbage out, most of the time, but figured he would do that (he thought it was "his job"). Likewise, he did, occasionally thank me for cooking dinner, but sometimes not - when you're with someone that long, some things just become status quo.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/9/2006 4:01:06 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 31

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 4:17:26 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I personally do not see it all as sexual. And got a long list of doms that no longer talk to me because I tell them straight up.. if all you want to talk about is sex... sexual positions... scenes.. etc... we really do not have nothing to talk about. Got another list that as soon as they turn it to sex ... I lose interest real fast. Some because of previous discussions I try to "excuse it" and go with the flow because we might of reached that point. But when it becomes the main topic.. I lose interest.

Truesub, this is exactly what I meant by the 'do-me' dominants, the ones who view it as only sexual. In my mind I see them as viewing dominance along the Tarzan/jane lines........"I MAN, you woman, spread 'em now!"

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 32

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 4:55:40 PM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

I read this thread with a great deal of interest. Since I am uncollared and have never been collared, I'm not sure how I fit in the whole gamut of BDSM. I wonder sometimes if I'm even a "real" submissive.

To me this is not about sex. I can live without sex, but I can't live without D/s. It's so much a part of who I am I will submit even when I shouldn't simply because it's my natural instinct/inclination. It's not that I don't like sex....ye gads!! But one of my favorite fantasies has nothing whatsoever to do with sex. It also has no whips, crops, canes, clamps, wax, ropes, chain, or any other "toy". It's all about me providing the service that I know best to please a Master and his guests. It doesn't give me the big "O", but it satisfies something deep inside of me that sex can't touch.

I don't know if that makes sense to anyone beyond me, but maybe it explains why I wonder sometimes if I'll ever find a Dom/Master who "gets" who I am.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 33

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 9:11:50 PM

HollyS

Posts: 230
Joined: 1/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

The difference -- which I'm learning to wrap my head around with my darling girl -- is that service to Me, for her, is as gratifying as sex -- or even, dare I say it, more so? No, I don't think holly has an orgasm everytime I ask her to prepare a simple meal for us, or to lay out my clothes prior to a meeting, but I do see in her care and attention a sort of release, and both of us have a tremendous emotional satisfaction.

Yes, this is very true. It fills a very deep need for me to be able to meet personal needs as well as sexual ones, even though the release isn't the same as orgasm. It's different, transcendent... I don't have good words for it. I just know that without it there's a small piece of myself that's starved. It goes back to the holistic ideal: serving is caring for your whole person, whatever is needed, right at that time. It is tremendously satisfying for me to do this.

quote:

Puella talks about making it "holy" and that is a very good description. And yes, puella, I think many of us "get it" through your very lucid post. I will say that for me, seeing service as "holy" can be a bit off putting. Not because the service is not respected, but because there is a touch of self-doubt that I am worthy of her service!

*smiles*

I agree in part with what Puellas is saying. I think it would be better to say that in my case D/s service is a spiritual exercise; a way to put energy back into the universe. I know it sounds a bit cosmic, but being allowed to serve this way helps keep me centered in the other parts of my life. We give, things come back to us, and so goes the world...

~Holly

_____________________________

I wish my lawn were emo, so it would cut itself.

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 34

RE: Service with Substance - 7/9/2006 9:38:25 PM

SusanofO

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline

I was thinking back to the time this afternoon, I had the affair with the man who introduced me to bdsm. I think for me, maybe the sexual bdsm experience was perhaps what triggerred turning non-sexual tasks he wanted me to do for him into an almost religious experience for me. It turned me on to do things like pick up his dry cleaning, because he was my Dominant. It made me feel - special (vague word but best I can do for now).Of course he always let me know he appreciated it (I am not sure if that mattered, but it was polite, which I appreciated).

I know I've always felt submissive, what I am saying is that having a "scene" and having sex made other tasks more meaningful for me to do - because I was doing them for him. Because of that, doing them made me feel wonderful, even sexually turned on at times (I know that might sound weird, but I live a lot in my own head, please excuse, he).

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 7/9/2006 9:39:23 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to HollyS)

Post #: 35

RE: Service with Substance - 7/10/2006 12:21:07 AM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Truesub, this is exactly what I meant by the 'do-me' dominants, the ones who view it as only sexual. In my mind I see them as viewing dominance along the Tarzan/jane lines........"I MAN, you woman, spread 'em now!"

LOL... ok who has the screen cleaner and towels ....Got a clean up needed over here....thanks catize... i just cleaned my screen this evening.. now gotta do it again..

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 36

RE: Service with Substance - 7/10/2006 5:06:34 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Truesub, this is exactly what I meant by the 'do-me' dominants, the ones who view it as only sexual. In my mind I see them as viewing dominance along the Tarzan/jane lines........"I MAN, you woman, spread 'em now!"

LOL... ok who has the screen cleaner and towels ....Got a clean up needed over here....thanks catize... i just cleaned my screen this evening.. now gotta do it again..

<hands you some towels and a plastic screen shield> LOL

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to truesub4u)

Post #: 37

RE: Service with Substance - 7/10/2006 5:35:47 AM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

IMO it's not ALL about sex, but to a certain degree, it IS about kinky sex. There are D/s type relationships in the vanilla world that don't include kinky sex, so the defining factor to the "lifestyle" is alternative sexual practice. The rest is just fitting it all into real life and using sexual tension/fulfillment as a power and bonding tool.

To answer your actual question, service with substance to me are those things that really matter and make another's life easier and more comfortable, and aid the other in reaching goals. For example if the Dom/me is working hard to start his/her own business or finish school. It would be taking care of as many of the little details of life so that s/he can focus entirely on accomplishing the goal. I don't really think of sex as a service since I enjoy it too, but I guess there are certain aspects and circumstances in which it would become more of a "service" than a mutually enjoyable activity.

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 38

RE: Service with Substance - 7/10/2006 7:17:58 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I know many embrace BDSM M/s D/s as a means to an end, the end being sexual activity akin to the 'BDSM' is all about sex school of thought.

This question is directed to anyone, but especially for those who believe that BDSM is, indeed, all about sex.

What is service with substance? What does it mean to you? Do you require service from your submissive? If submissive, do you provide service? Do you view sexual activities (blow jobs, fucking, etc.) as a service? Is service with substance or substantial service something you seek out in a partner, something you want a potential partner to see in you?

If BDSM is all about sex, does that mean there is a place for the 'do-me' submissive as long as the end result is some form of sexual act?

For the purpose of this thread, I'm defining 'substance' like substantial.. I.E. content or essence as opposed to form; of real importance, value or validity. Feel free to provide your own definitions in your answer.

Celeste

I tend to separate BDSM from D/s. I know that some people combine them all together but I do not, simply because the D/s part of the relationship is a distinctive part of the relationship and the BDSM is a lesser, though just as distinctive, part of the relationship.

I can dominate a submissive without sex being involved and I have. It was rewarding for both of us and gave me an introduction into the mind of someone who derived pleasure simply out of doing things for someone that she respected and who was appreciative not only of the service but accomodating in allowing her to do so. I, in turn, got to help someone who was sorely in need of direction and this helped me to see dominant responsibilities that were not tied to sex but rather to a need to exert controls over areas of someone's life that were in sore need of control. The experience, to me, was about service and dominance with substance...the desires to please/control were satisfied and the desires being met were of a non-sexual, non-pain/pleasure-arousing variety. To add another example to Celeste's example of non-sexual service: I love my hot rods. Anyone I have been with soon learns that. I love to have them clean and detailed. The one I spoke of above once told me she was going to do some cleaning. She took the keys to my truck without letting me know and, when she brought it back, it was gorgeous. She'd spent the afternoon making it look not just hot, but 'special' hot. She did it because it pleased me and pleasing me mattered to her.

That said, I ask the same types of sexual play questions as many dominants. Frankly, it is because the BDSM component is a very big component of any relationship that I am going to be involved in on a long-term level. The only part? No, though I have been there too (and in one instance, when I forgot to wait to find out EVERYTHING BEFORE starting to fall in love...hate when that happens...got my eyes opened while having my heart broke as I found out she was less into the sexless side of submission than I initially thought.). But it is an important part and I admit it. For me though, I want the submission to be there with both the sexual side and the play side of the BDSM. I like the way Padriag put it: "It's that a submissive is willing to suffer for me to please me, for my pleasure, that does it for me. Because again, that is a very strong message of submission."
The fact that she enjoys makes it that much better but, whether she does or not is not necessary to either her or to me, the willingness to "do it" in deference to her need to submit and my need to dominate is.
I view the sexual play aspect the same way.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 39

RE: Service with Substance - 7/10/2006 8:18:27 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Hello Celeste!
I will answer based on my own limited experiences. At this point in my life I want something more than a shallow sexual relationship. I also have lost almost all interest in sex with the male of the species.
The numbers being what the numbers are in this arena of life male submissives are quite plentiful and tend to approach all dominant women with more than a little frequency.....cheesy grin inserted........I have actually been contacted by two young men that seem quite sincere and have given me no reason as of yet to believe they are otherwise. I have been VERY adamant in my lack of interest in them in any way that could be seen as sexual. Could not have been any more clear. They repeatedly have said that they understand and that is not a priority for them. So, I decided to communicate a little more, give them plenty of time to get bored with conversation that has nothing to do with BDSM or more importantly, sex. Inevitably it came up. One felt the need to express a desire to show me his nude body to paint......I did not express a desire to paint a nude body, had not asked for it, and declined the offer. His wittle feelings were hurt. Sorry, not my problem. The other, even knowing that I don't even want to acknowledge he has a penis made sure to put near the top of his list of interests....CBT and being used with a strap-on. I do not care! I didn't want to know that! The very idea gives me the heebie jeebies! So, my cooling of interest in either one....I am probably going to be labeled in some small male submissive network as a fake or whatever. I don't care. I gave them the opportunity to prove that they would serve a woman with zero sexual over/undertones at all and they blew it. My point in this long ramble is this. I am not saying I would NEVER have any sexual interest, I am just saying that with a guy right now its not in my plan.
On the flip side, I want a relationship with a woman that is submissive, that is interested in BDSM play, BUT as a facet to a whole relationship. The dynamics of that relationship would ideally be much more than sex, much more than BDSM play, it would be one in which there existed all of the small daily things that you and others have described. I do not get the same connections with a man either dominant or submissive, as I get and crave in a relationship with a woman.

I hope to hell all of that made some sort of sense.......

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 40

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