RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (Full Version)

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MrBukani -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 1:45:29 AM)

Trickle trickle little drop, oh it's hell to question the mob.
Now we let the water trickle and you'll soon be in a pickle.
Tell us what you've done so wrong,
or else we'll ring your ears with a gong.




jlf1961 -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 3:59:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:


Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them


This claim is incorrect. (What else would one expect of Palin?)

The proper claim is:

We have become terrorists when we waterboard suspected terrorists.


Tweak, as I said, I dont give a fuck how we get the information, if it saves lives.

I also said that every country on the planet uses some form of torture, be it chemical or physical to get information.

And every country on the planet screams "war crimes" when it is done to their own people.

The hypocrisy comes when they call it anything else.

And to put it bluntly, I dont care how much someone cries foul when they learn their government has used those techniques, deep down they are glad that every effort was taken to save lives.



DomKen -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 4:12:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:


Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them


This claim is incorrect. (What else would one expect of Palin?)

The proper claim is:

We have become terrorists when we waterboard suspected terrorists.


Tweak, as I said, I dont give a fuck how we get the information, if it saves lives.

I also said that every country on the planet uses some form of torture, be it chemical or physical to get information.

And every country on the planet screams "war crimes" when it is done to their own people.

The hypocrisy comes when they call it anything else.

And to put it bluntly, I dont care how much someone cries foul when they learn their government has used those techniques, deep down they are glad that every effort was taken to save lives.

Nope. It makes me sick because we know it doesn't work. We have reams of evidence that it doesn't work. KSM told lie after lie while being waterboarded. Each one had to be checked out wasting our people's time and resources. Using established interrogation techniques OTOH yielded useful intelligence. It's really that simple, do what works not what doesn't.



PeonForHer -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 5:23:55 AM)

quote:

Nope. It makes me sick because we know it doesn't work.


It might work to help breed a lot more terrorists, though. How angry would I get if I knew some government had tortured one of my friends or family? Enough, possibly, to turn me violent. Still, not an effect that's easy to measure across an entire people, I'd guess.



tweakabelle -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 5:41:05 AM)

Techniques such as waterboarding rely on terrorising the suspect into (allegedly) spilling the beans and revealing such information as satisfies the interrogators. In other words, it is terrorism in action, and the people who use it are therefore terrorists. That any strategic or military advantage derived is hopelessly compromised discredits this 'strategy' further leaving torturing suspects without a single redeeming virtue.

The use of torture eliminates whatever moral superiority the interrogators may have held over the suspect and reduces them to the level of the people they claim to oppose and despise. In a very real and immediate way, they have become the very thing they claim to be fighting - terrorists themselves.

The use of torture against terrorist suspects is the sign that the terrorists have won.



jlf1961 -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 6:07:56 AM)

What breeds terrorists is not the use of torture, they use it as well, along with videos of captives being beheaded and other activities.

What breeds more terrorists is the western countries saying "bad Israel, you should not do ________" and nothing more. The west placed sanctions on Iraw for invading Kuwait, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and Sudan for harboring terrorists.

Israel builds settlements in the occupied territories, the west makes all kinds of noises about how wrong they are, but nothing else. Palestinians fire rockets into Israel, we raise seven kinds of hell. Israel fires missiles or drops bombs on Palestinian population centers to punish them for the rocket attacks, we say it was justified, even though the body count ration is 10:1 in favor of Israel.

Then there is collateral casualties from drone strikes.

The west believes in justice for everyone, except Israel, then it is a slap on the wrist and business as usual.

Western forces were in Iraq for years to keep the peace and help rebuild the country. The infrastructure is still a mess, and we pulled out with the country fighting a civil war with anti west insurgents, hospitals that are little better than nothing, and a couple million more people disillusioned in the west because we go in and blow the shit out of a country and barely do anything to fix the situation we created.

This shit has been going on since the end of WW1.

And then people ask "why do the Islamic extremists attack the US? and the western countries?"

And then liberals scream about the CIA using torture, while drone attacks, cruise missile strikes, bombing raids, black op and spec op operations to kidnap suspected terrorists and pouring millions in military aid into pro western countries in the region is perfectly okay.

You want terrorists to stop attacking western countries, it is really simple, tell Israel to fuck off, stop aid to countries that have records of oppressing Muslim sects that are not the preferred group in the country, and leave the middle east to solve its own problems.

Why we wont, oil.



thishereboi -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 6:26:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Nope. It makes me sick because we know it doesn't work.


It might work to help breed a lot more terrorists, though. How angry would I get if I knew some government had tortured one of my friends or family? Enough, possibly, to turn me violent. Still, not an effect that's easy to measure across an entire people, I'd guess.


You may be on to something. And if that makes them mad, how mad does it make them that we have all of their friends locked up at Gitmo. Maybe we should let them all go and the next time they set off a bomb, instead of punishing them and trying to stop them from doing it again, we could just pat them on the head and suggest they go watch tv and have a cookie. I am sure that would put an end to the violence.[8|]



Phydeaux -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 6:29:02 AM)

Why do you suppose we are the only ones with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Arab leaders even our allies incite the Arab Street against us.
Militant jihadis need jihad to maintain leadership.

Arab nationalism is resurging much like Chinese nationalism and independently of anything we do will cause conflict.



thompsonx -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 7:58:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Tweak, as I said, I dont give a fuck how we get the information, if it saves lives.

It has been proved that it does not, so why do you keep pimping it?

I also said that every country on the planet uses some form of torture, be it chemical or physical to get information.

This is ignorant unsubstantianted opinion. Please show us where andora or lichtenstine or monaco have used it.

And to put it bluntly, I dont care how much someone cries foul when they learn their government has used those techniques, deep down they are glad that every effort was taken to save lives.


While it is your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion that it saves lives the facts are that it does not.



thompsonx -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 8:02:28 AM)

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


You may be on to something. And if that makes them mad, how mad does it make them that we have all of their friends locked up at Gitmo.

This would be some more ignorant unsubstantiated opinion on your part. You have no clue who is locked up at gitmo.


Maybe we should let them all go and the next time they set off a bomb,

If you start a war with someone why wouldn't you expect them to retaliate?

instead of punishing them and trying to stop them from doing it again, we could just pat them on the head and suggest they go watch tv and have a cookie.

How bout if we got the fuck out of their country and left them alone?







thompsonx -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 8:05:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Arab nationalism is resurging much like Chinese nationalism and independently of anything we do will cause conflict.


Arab and chinese nationalism is a bad thing but u.s. nationalism is a good thing[8|]



OwnerFiftyNine -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 8:07:08 AM)

That`s the paranoid, pussy narrative....


We are one of the most admired and looked up to cultures in the Arab world and in the whole world.


Just a hand full of extremists have you cons so scared that you`ve pissed your pants and are eager throw away every construct of civil evolution.....


And fyi.....the thousands of Muslims that were killed directly or indirectly in Iraq make you republicans no better than the jihadists.



lovmuffin -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 8:12:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

I see nothing in Palin 's statement that remotely
Approaches what you said jlf.

Can you read?

http://gawker.com/sarah-palin-says-shed-waterboard-terrorists-and-call-it-1568455308

"If I were in charge, they would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists."

I didn't think so.



Once again proving the dearth of intellectual honesty among y'all.

Here's what JLF said:

That is a relief, we are converting terrorists to Christianity by baptizing them against their will, or at least that is what Sarah Palin is saying.

Hyperbole. Its called hyperbole.
Do you think that every single expression is literal. You've never heard of a baptism by fire, for example?

Do you really think she's saying that jlf's interpretation is true? The CS monitor doesn't.
To quote:


"The one-liner went over great with the crowd. It summarized well a main point of her address, which held that liberals are hypocrites who are too weak to protect America."

Palin isn't saying she'd convert terrorists. She's saying she'd waterboard them. She's saying liberals are lying, weak hypocrites that think gun free zone signs protect children from shooters. Again. Paraphrased. CS monitor.





This would have been my point exactly, excellent post. Furthermore, as far as her tongue and cheek reference to baptism, big fuckin deal.



RacerJim -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 8:18:06 AM)

"When people — when ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance you don’t really have to do anything, you just let them talk. And that’s what happened here."
-- Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Obama aka Barry Soetoro aka Soebarkah

When far left-wing anti-America liberals/progressives want to advertise their ignorance we don't really have to do anything, we just let them talk. And that's what's happening here. :-)




thompsonx -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 8:26:57 AM)


ORIGINAL: RacerJim

-- Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Obama aka Barry Soetoro aka Soebarkah

Aka president of the united states of america.

When far left-wing anti-America liberals/progressives want to advertise their ignorance we don't really have to do anything, we just let them talk. And that's what's happening here. :-)

Teddy roosevelt was a progressive





MercTech -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 9:28:38 AM)

BTW, if you do water boarding in the United States; you are guilty of several crimes. One reason the CIA will not allow suspected terrorists to be brought to U.S. soil.

We have failed to watch the watchmen.



PeonForHer -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 9:51:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


You may be on to something. And if that makes them mad, how mad does it make them that we have all of their friends locked up at Gitmo. Maybe we should let them all go and the next time they set off a bomb, instead of punishing them and trying to stop them from doing it again, we could just pat them on the head and suggest they go watch tv and have a cookie. I am sure that would put an end to the violence.[8|]



I was talking about torturing, THB, not mere punishing and prevention of future terrorist acts (assuming there were prior acts), as you can read in the post that you cited. I can write the whole post again, bolding the word, if that would help. [:)]



PeonForHer -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 9:53:18 AM)

quote:

What breeds terrorists is not the use of torture, they use it as well, along with videos of captives being beheaded and other activities.


Is that just your opinion, JLF, or do you have some evidence of some sort? It'd be an interesting point if so.



chatterbox24 -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 10:09:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


You may be on to something. And if that makes them mad, how mad does it make them that we have all of their friends locked up at Gitmo.

This would be some more ignorant unsubstantiated opinion on your part. You have no clue who is locked up at gitmo.


Maybe we should let them all go and the next time they set off a bomb,

If you start a war with someone why wouldn't you expect them to retaliate?

instead of punishing them and trying to stop them from doing it again, we could just pat them on the head and suggest they go watch tv and have a cookie.

How bout if we got the fuck out of their country and left them alone?







Ya think? I was thinking that too.
How about I come over and tell you how to run your house? and while I am at it, if you don't do it, Ill stick a gun in your face. That ought to waterboard ya well. Hows about it? Will you love me and respect me and want to hug me like a big ole teddy bear?[:D][:D][:D]



Phydeaux -> RE: Okay so we are actually baptising terrorists when we water board them. (4/29/2014 10:11:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Arab nationalism is resurging much like Chinese nationalism and independently of anything we do will cause conflict.


Arab and chinese nationalism is a bad thing but u.s. nationalism is a good thing[8|]



Troll, clearly you don't read well.

Whether you attach a title "good" or "bad" to arab nationalism it is irrelevent to me. What I contest is the ridiculous idea that arabs will stop waging war with us simply if we roll over and play dead.

The arabs have reasons of their own to initiate conflict.



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