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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/5/2014 2:22:30 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

Current advances in computer prediction of protein folding have greatly shortened discovery and development time and need for testing of both antibiotics and of catalysts for improving and detoxifying a large number of industrial and chemical processes. And a hell of a lot more.

Interestingly enough, some of the latest advances have come from taking a different approach...

A cooperative online game that puts volunteer “gamers” to work folding proteins has attracted 50,000 players whose “distributed thinking” has, in some cases, proven more powerful than computers in predicting the three-dimensional structure of proteins. ~Source

The "game" is called Foldit.

Recent advances from Foldit include identifying the structure of a retroviral protease that causes AIDS in rhesus monkeys and protein inhibitors that block H1N1, a virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic and the 2009 flu pandemic. Through Foldit, the crowd has produced solutions that have evaded scientists for years. ~Source

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/5/2014 2:23:04 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/5/2014 9:44:59 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Since this thread is about what the atheists get right and atheists feel that biology is their subject it makes sense to ask some questions about biology.

Unsolved Problems in Biology/Protein folding
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Unsolved_Problems_in_Biology/Protein_folding

What can you tell me about protein folding. What makes protein folding so important?


Biology is the study of living organisms. Protein folding is the science of altering cells at the amino acid level. It is important in health studies to cure diseases or ailments from anything from allergies to more severe genetic conditions. In the process of opening the door, other things could be stumbled upon, and with that comes great responsibility. That's where the fear of God comes in. It is possible for us to make some really bad decisions on our quest for knowledge, in fact if in the wrong hands, these processes would not aid mankind, nor earth but actually destroy it.
Mother nature has her/he own way of weeding. Try as we might we will never have the end answer, no matter how long the quest. But its fun isn't it? Playing God.

Just my opinion.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/5/2014 11:56:13 AM   
Tkman117


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

we just found the Higgs Boson, so claiming that god "is the source of mass" has been debunked. And other, similar claims will go the same way over time.

Well good. I'm sick and tired of hearing preachers claim that God "is the source of mass." On the other hand, even someone who's not a Creationist might point out that the question remains, what is the source of the Higgs boson? You do realize that we have no idea how any of this got started, right? Assuming the Big Bang theory is correct, where did that singularity come from? Science will solve everything in time? I mean, I have no problem with you pointing out that people make claims about things they can't possibly know. But it's a trifle odd when it's coming from someone who's doing the same thing.

K.




1) The whole higgs things was just an example for argument's sake, calm your tits.

2) Maybe you don't know how this got started, but that doesn't mean we won't ever know. What do you think they're doing at CERN? Just throwing stuff into each other at light speed to see what happens? They're delving into the very fabric of reality there, ripping matter apart to understand what it's made of. There are plenty of theories suggesting where our universe came from, all ranging from the formation of a 4 dimensional black hole in a universe beyond this one to multiverse theory. If creationists ask what the source of the higgs particle is, I'd honestly say I dont know, BUT I'd also say that researchers are still looking for that answer, and that using god as an explanation of something we dont currently know is not only idiotic, but detrimental to the progress of science. If humans didn't question what they saw and understood, we would still think Zues ruled the sky and heavens, Poseidon ruled the land and sea, and Hades ruled the underworld. The moment we make assumptions about ANYTHING is the day we have abandoned science and the progress we have made so far.

3) I'm hardly making claims about things I can't possibly know. 100 years ago people didn't think it would be possible to go to the moon. 200 years ago people didn't know we could develop technology that would allow us to fly. 400 years ago we thought the earth was the centre of the universe. Assuming things can't become reality is what hinders and stops the progress of science and human development. If humans stop striving to understand, to solve problems, to perfect and enhance and refine our sciences, then we might as well go belly up and forget about continuing on as a species. Maybe science won't solve everything in time, the universe is so vast there will likely be more questions by the time Humanity blinks out than answers. But that is what science is, it's about searching for answers, and right now we are still looking for reasons as to why and how our universe was created. We don't even know exactly what our universe is, which is part of the problem. I don't think science will solve everything, my statement before was unrealistic, but I do think it will give us a broader understanding of the origins of our universe.

4) The earth was created during the formation of our sun and the accumulation of heavy matter. If we can understand how our own planet formed, who are you or any other person to assume we can't understand how our universe form? Assumptions are the enemy of science, ignorance even more so. And you my friend, are blinded by both.

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 5/5/2014 11:59:24 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/5/2014 12:28:51 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
If biology is programmable matter, <snip>

It isn't. Why make such an obtuse statement of crap??

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
why does such matter exist?

It doesn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Who is the programmer

There isn't one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
and what problem is it supposed to solve?

There's no problem to solve.


_____________________________

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/5/2014 12:29:04 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

1) The whole higgs things was just an example for argument's sake, calm your tits.

When I get responses that are three times as long as my post, I suspect it's not my tits that need calming. And as I didn't make an argument for religion, the whole of your point 2) is attacking a straw man.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

I don't think science will solve everything, my statement before was unrealistic

Fair enough then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

The earth was created during the formation of our sun and the accumulation of heavy matter. If we can understand how our own planet formed, who are you or any other person to assume we can't understand how our universe form? Assumptions are the enemy of science, ignorance even more so. And you my friend, are blinded by both.

I didn't say anything about "how" either, so this is another straw man. What I said was that we have no idea how any of this got started, which is entirely another matter. So you seem to be the one a bit blinded by something.

K.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/5/2014 12:34:10 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Since this thread is about what the atheists get right and atheists feel that biology is their subject it makes sense to ask some questions about biology.

Who says biology is the subject of atheists??

Biology is a subject to learn.
And atheists is someone who believes there is no deity.

Two completely disjointed identities with no relationship to each other.

FFS BM. Stop trolling crap for the sake of it will ya??

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/6/2014 3:10:54 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
In the process of opening the door, other things could be stumbled upon, and with that comes great responsibility. That's where the fear of God comes in.


What does awe of god have to do with anything?

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/6/2014 7:26:13 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Excellent, Gary the Unicorn has finally sent you a sign that I'm a true Profit. Welcome to Atheism!


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
You ought to see this unicorn. I yi yi. His name is not Gary. Lol. Ok now I'm just having fun but GS you are so stubborn!


I am being purposely silly so that no one gets the idea that's my actual position but I would also like you to take it seriously as a thought experiment. So you've come across something improbable and determined that it much be a message or whatever, how pray tell do you determine the content or even the author of said message?

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/7/2014 5:17:02 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
In the process of opening the door, other things could be stumbled upon, and with that comes great responsibility. That's where the fear of God comes in.


What does awe of god have to do with anything?


It is not obvious to you that some things should not be experimented with? That some things that come into existence really should never come into existence?
Awe of God directs one. If used in the correct way, it guides one to have finer tuned internal voice. Its about taking responsibility, and gaining knowledge from a place you can not really explain, its just there.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/7/2014 5:31:28 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
Excellent, Gary the Unicorn has finally sent you a sign that I'm a true Profit. Welcome to Atheism!


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
You ought to see this unicorn. I yi yi. His name is not Gary. Lol. Ok now I'm just having fun but GS you are so stubborn!


I am being purposely silly so that no one gets the idea that's my actual position but I would also like you to take it seriously as a thought experiment. So you've come across something improbable and determined that it much be a message or whatever, how pray tell do you determine the content or even the author of said message?


There is a lot of power in doing right by others. There is a lot of power in doing the right things even when no one is looking. For me its made my own life and for my family much better. Sometimes you do things for people and you feel they do not appreciate it, and sometimes they truly don't. But the point is, I do my part. Sometimes I fail too. Its all about growing as a person and caring for people. Not as an enabling person, but to be a reflection. Maybe today they don't not care, but that kindness you pass on, might come to their mind later and effect them, and maybe they also will find the way. I read everyday to stay in touch with my faith, to stay bonded to it. It is effective for clarity. It is also easy to get discouraged because sometimes it feels like there is only silence, no answer but I have learned to be patient, because in my world, God does things in his own time not my own time. It doesn't mean I should be passive, and think I can sit and do nothing. I have to work toward those goals. The things never received, I just accept as I was not suppose to have it.

I would also like to add, the argument can be made I am only talking to myself, and in some respects that is true. But lets just say, I really like this me I talk to, much better then the old me I used to talk too.

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 5/7/2014 5:46:34 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/7/2014 10:42:13 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Synchronicity is the experience of two or more events as meaningfully related, where they are unlikely to be causally related... Following discussions with both Albert Einstein and Wolfgang Pauli, Jung believed... that life was not a series of random events but rather an expression of a deeper order, which he and Pauli referred to as Unus mundus... It has been asserted that Jung's analytical psychological theory of synchronicity is equal to intellectual intuition ~Source

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. ~Albert Einstein

K.

Oh I like that post Kirata


Just to reiterate I'm not advising against the use of intuition, that's just what a certain troll likes to pretend.

While Archimedes may never have actually had his famous eureka moment numerous other scientists have had such intuitive epiphanies:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-archimede/
Several millennia later, the scientific world is replete with the exclamation, and many people have received inspiration in the shower. The mathematical conjectures of Henri Poincar¿, Einstein's theory of relativity, Newton getting dinged on the head with an apple and discovering gravity--all have been described as eureka moments.


The difference (which is my point) is that when asked to justify the conclusions they had reached said scientists didn't reply "various reasons.......I'm just guessing".

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/7/2014 3:28:32 PM   
chatterbox24


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Status: offline 		Ok point taken. But I was guessing! I didn't work a mathematical equation to develop theory to disapprove a theory to get to an answer that may or may not be entirely true.
Besides I suck at math and I am not a scientist. For heavens sake this is cc not rocket science.

Ps I liked the article

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 5/7/2014 3:32:01 PM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/7/2014 6:17:15 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Just to reiterate I'm not advising against the use of intuition, that's just what a certain troll likes to pretend.

You don't even know what intuition is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

There is a sort of reasoning behind intuition, it's a kind of sloppy pattern matching...

intuition - Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without inference or the use of reason

intuition - direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension

K.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/7/2014 6:25:18 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
In the process of opening the door, other things could be stumbled upon, and with that comes great responsibility. That's where the fear of God comes in.


What does awe of god have to do with anything?


I think it means that whatever we humans discover or invent, we should never forget that God has a much, much bigger knob than us. I hope that helps.


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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/8/2014 2:13:29 AM   
BenevolentM


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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Biology is a subject to learn.


With all this talk of atheism I've acquired a taste for biochemistry. This is what I've figured out so far. In the formation of proteins the carbon-nitrogen bond is the glue that holds the protein components together. Proteins are examples of Amides http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/organic/AMIDE.HTML. The only immediate role the oxygen atom and the hydrogen atom appears to have in the amide bond (aka peptide bond) is to ensure that the bonded components form a totally ordered set. Grammatically speaking, the nitrogen atom is the space between words. It joins the words together.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/8/2014 4:43:31 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Yes, put all your knobs together infinity, round and round and round, vertically and horizonally. and every which way but loose and your knobs will never compare. One big door knob, that is what you meant right? Btw that was an excellent help.
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
In the process of opening the door, other things could be stumbled upon, and with that comes great responsibility. That's where the fear of God comes in.


What does awe of god have to do with anything?


I think it means that whatever we humans discover or invent, we should never forget that God has a much, much bigger knob than us. I hope that helps.




< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 5/8/2014 4:44:30 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/8/2014 4:52:18 AM   
chatterbox24


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Status: offline 		HI Ben. Your link wouldn't work with the captials, but anyway, that definitely makes no sense to me, for anyone who does like chemistry or equations I admire that. Its just like a bunch of random numbers or letters that bore me to death. I never found a lot of interest in it. Takes the fun and wonder right out of everything.

May______God bless___________________________ the world.

Is there a mathematical equation for that? Really? How fascinating.
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Biology is a subject to learn.


With all this talk of atheism I've acquired a taste for biochemistry. This is what I've figured out so far. In the formation of proteins the carbon-nitrogen bond is the glue that holds the protein components together. Proteins are examples of Amides http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/organic/AMIDE.HTML. The only immediate role the oxygen atom and the hydrogen atom appears to have in the amide bond (aka peptide bond) is to ensure that the bonded components form a totally ordered set. Grammatically speaking, the nitrogen atom is the space between words. It joins the words together.



< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 5/8/2014 4:53:19 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/8/2014 5:27:53 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Ok point taken. But I was guessing! I didn't work a mathematical equation to develop theory to disapprove a theory to get to an answer that may or may not be entirely true.
Besides I suck at math and I am not a scientist. For heavens sake this is cc not rocket science.


I don't think mathematical equations will help you on this one. However, having hung out in BM's threads and interacted with him extensively can you really make no deductions about his thought process? I mean you've spent quite a bit of time watching his thought process at work can't you come up with anything more accurate than a guess?

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 5/8/2014 5:28:37 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/8/2014 5:38:09 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Ok point taken. But I was guessing! I didn't work a mathematical equation to develop theory to disapprove a theory to get to an answer that may or may not be entirely true.
Besides I suck at math and I am not a scientist. For heavens sake this is cc not rocket science.


I don't think mathematical equations will help you on this one. However, having hung out in BM's threads and interacted with him extensively can you really make no deductions about his thought process? I mean you've spent quite a bit of time watching his thought process at work can't you come up with anything more accurate than a guess?


Honestly no I cant. I don't make assumptions about people. So its guessing. Typing on a computer in no full way gives you a real feel or knowledge of a person. Once you begin to assume, then that's when knowledge stops. There is no clear evidence pointing to one thing or the other. Some people though are very easy to read, in two or three sentences you already know. I could assume your a jackass, but I really don't think you are. But you could be, but I wont be reading between the lines.

< Message edited by chatterbox24 -- 5/8/2014 5:39:40 AM >

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/8/2014 5:56:39 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
What does awe of god have to do with anything?

It is not obvious to you that some things should not be experimented with? That some things that come into existence really should never come into existence?

Awe of the cosmos causes many of us to want to understand as much as we can about it. I can't recommend the show Cosmos highly enough, Neil Degrasse Tyson does a great job sharing that awe. It seems strange to me that your awe doesn't work the same way and I suspect that it has quite a bit more to do with fear than my awe which is why people choose the work fear not awe to describe their fear of god.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Awe of God directs one. If used in the correct way, it guides one to have finer tuned internal voice. Its about taking responsibility, and gaining knowledge from a place you can not really explain, its just there.

This sounds suspicisiously like priming. It skews perceptions and undermines objectivety. It'll reliably "fine tune" your "internal voice" to find god, assuring that you do even if there's no god to find.


< Message edited by GotSteel -- 5/8/2014 5:58:15 AM >

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