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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/1/2014 2:58:59 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Let me ask you, this is interesting to me. Do Atheist get knowings? And if you do, do you dismiss them?

We've been over this before, atheists are human beings just like you. We have the same parts of the brain which you do so we also have intuition, same as you do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
If there is no reasoning to it, is it something you dont investigate?

There is a sort of reasoning behind intuition, it's a kind of sloppy pattern matching. It is useful but as you yourself have noted it's reliability is questionable.

What does that mean for me, well let me share with you the first scientific experiment I became aware of as a child.

If two objects are dropped at the same time in a vacuum (that is to say they fall without the resistance of air) which will hit the ground first, a heavy rock or a light feather?

If you didn't have knowledge of this subject you would blurt your guess and BM would assert his hunch as fact but there's another option, Galileo actually checked to see if what his intuition was saying about light vs. heavy objects was correct.

So you see I'm not wanting you to ignore your hunches, I'm wanting you to check them.






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Profile   Post #: 141
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/1/2014 7:57:20 PM   
Zonie63


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63


quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

You are buying the propaganda because you are not a deep thinker. You are not looking into the implications of your beliefs.


I've tried to engage you a couple of times with some deep thinking which would look into the implications of our beliefs, but you seem to be ignoring me. Is it your purpose just to throw out random one-liners without really wanting to get into any real depth?

That's pretty much all he does, no matter what the original topic is.


ETA: good answer to chatterbox tho


Thanks, freedomdwarf. I think the main point I was trying to make (partly in response to Benevolent's statement that atheists/agnostics don't get into any depth) was that it's not something that people just decide on whimsy or without any thought.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/1/2014 9:10:33 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

There is a sort of reasoning behind intuition, it's a kind of sloppy pattern matching...

intuition - Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without inference or the use of reason

intuition - direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension

K.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/1/2014 9:14:37 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

I am not an atheist at all, ...


Catholics differ from Protestants in that we want proof to the extent practicable. You made a claim, you are not an atheist. When I spoke of the relationship atheism has to Protestantism I was making a general statement.

What proof do you have? For example, you could say, "I acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord." Many Protestants feel this is sufficient. Unfortunately, it is and it is not. You have to mean it.

If you mean it, you will be careful not to contradict yourself. You can contradict yourself either directly or indirectly. If you have not worked out the implications of your belief, you have not been faithful to your belief. Low and behold the atheists are engaging in the same sort of nonsense the Protestants engage in which supports of my thesis.

What I am saying may be disorienting to some because what is considered proof is different from the definition found in the sciences, but what is considered proof in a court of law for example is also different from the definition found in the sciences. There is no universal standard for what is considered proof even within the sciences. Each discipline has its own ideas concerning the matter.

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/2/2014 2:33:59 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		A quest for God, for proof of His existence, is proof of your belief in God. Giving up is proof that you do not believe in Him. The Protestants along with the atheists gave up.

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/2/2014 2:44:41 AM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		The Protestants say Jesus is love, but they neglected to mention that the love of God cannot be fully comprehended by man and so if it is the sort of love you can fully relate to, you have it wrong.

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/2/2014 2:48:06 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
A quest for God, for proof of His existence, is proof of your belief in God.

Complete bollocks BM and you know it.
Many people quest for god and the 2 millenia search for this ethereal being is pretty much proof that the atheists are right.
Ergo: there is no god.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
Giving up is proof that you do not believe in Him.

More bullshit BM.
Most Hindus, Islamics, christians, evangelists, buddhists... pretty much most organised religions just accept their holy being without searching for them. This is what faith is all about, not your sort of clap-trap.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
The Protestants along with the atheists gave up.

Bullshit.
The protestants no more gave up than the catholics.
And the atheists are still searching because they can prove that he can't be found and therefore doesn't exist - as per their belief.



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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/2/2014 5:04:27 AM   
chatterbox24


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

A quest for God, for proof of His existence, is proof of your belief in God. Giving up is proof that you do not believe in Him. The Protestants along with the atheists gave up.


Atheist they don't believe in God because they must have proof first?
Catholics they believe in God, but they are forever searching for the proof?
Protestants they believe in God, whether they can document it or not, based on faith alone.

Not really sure why you think protestants have gave up. I haven't gave up. Everyday I see a spark of God, I look for it. It finds me. Even in the worst of circumstances, if you look for the good, even if you dare think there isn't any, one can find it. Then concentrate on it. It doesn't necessarily come overnight, or in any certain time period, but it does work. Giving thanks the entire time for the lesson. It finds you giving peace and content and rest right here, right now. I am satisfied with that.
Now if someone is inclined to prove it, catching the wind in a bottle, or a smile, or a bloom then that's their thing. If they have a passion to prove then why would I say anything against it. ITs just not my thing, I don't need documented proof.

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/2/2014 6:20:06 AM   
chatterbox24


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Status: offline 		If two objects are dropped at the same time in a vacuum (that is to say they fall without the resistance of air) which will hit the ground first, a heavy rock or a light feather?

Well yes, I get that, of course one needs to use their brain. Be careful of hunches. Of course they can be wrong.

Which one hits the ground in the first in absence of gravity?
That's been proven too.

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/2/2014 9:06:06 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

ITs just not my thing, ...


This is how atheists reason.

Some speak of the spirit of the antichrist and have expressed concern with how the spirit of the antichrist is having an increasing presence in the world. Think of the spirit of the antichrist as entrophy. When you stop combating the effects of entrophy the weeds take over. The Protestants gave up trying. They decided much like the atheists to just live their lives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

I haven't gave up. Everyday I see a spark of God, I look for it.


How is your quest for God any different from the Buddhist quest for Nirvana?

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/2/2014 9:13:41 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

the atheists are still searching because they can prove that he can't be found...

Are you sure you wouldn't like to rephrase that?

K.


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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 4:42:53 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		I have a beautiful example of correlations through faith in God.
GS you posted two objects a round stone and a feather. Within hours I recieved a phone call. It was from the counsil of indian nations wanting a donation toward impovished elders and poor water quality and supply. The emblem they use is a round symbol with a feather on top. I have never recieved a call from any indian organization before. Coincidence? Some will say yes, but not for me. Its proof.

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 5:00:18 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

the atheists are still searching because they can prove that he can't be found...

Are you sure you wouldn't like to rephrase that?

K.



Maybe.
But most of the athiests that I know are indeed still searching so they can prove the religionists wrong.
That said, I only actually know about 4 or 5 atheists personally.
Most of my friends are either catholic, protestant or islamic with a handful of Pagans/Wiccans.

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 5:04:22 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
...but not for me. Its proof.

Proof of what?? God?
How do you work that one out??
You get a begging phone call and you equate that to proof of god or belief??
Man.... how fucked up is that!!!

We get begging letters and phone calls every fucking day.
That only proves they are more desperate than their pride permits.
Proof of a god?? Meh! No fucking way. I don't see the logic.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 5:36:02 AM   
chatterbox24


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Status: offline 		A request, nothing begging about it. In fact it was one of the most respectful calls I have ever recieved. Now what do you think I will do now Mister cynic?

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 10:27:08 AM   
chatterbox24


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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 7:02:55 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
Atheist they don't believe in God because they must have proof first?


This isn't really a statement that makes sense. It would be like saying theists believe that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet. Sure there are theists which believe that, but there are theists who don't as well.

Similarly one might not belive in a god because they have faith in scientology which teaches them that belief in gods comes from a brain washing program carried out on alien ghosts by the evil overlord Xenu. Or on the other end of the spectrum they could lack a belief in gods because of their rational skepticism.

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 8:11:35 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

Entrophy or entropy?


I misspelled it earlier. It is spelled without the h. It is spelled entropy.

A shepard or Shepard knows that if you fail to tend to your flock, given enough time your flock is going to disperse. Entropy will take hold. The same is true for a gardener. It is also true for business and it is true for government. It is a fact of life. If you give up much as the atheists say you should and just live your life, entropy will take over.

What did King Henry VIII want? He wanted the right to divorce, but what did that give us? After several centuries of neglect marriage as an institution has fallen apart. It took awhile, long enough for the Protestants to think that no harm was done.

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RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 8:43:45 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline 		The sort of argument needed establish the existence of God is distinct from the sort of argument needed to establish the identity of God.

What proof do the atheists have to substantiate their claim that they have no collective fantasy?

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: What do the atheists get right? - 5/3/2014 8:46:07 PM   
oublietteslave


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Status: offline 		is it what they get right or avoid getting wrong?

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