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ORIGINAL: BecomingV

Yes, I can. I did. I do! :) To perceive such as you do, that there is some sort of parallel going on between religion and human nature (meaning, that both have "good sides"), you have to think that there is something, anything, good about religion. I don't. If anything, I view religion as a sort of criminal lifestyle that reeks havoc on the rest of us and must be monitored and limited in its ability to harm the lives of others.
you obviously have a very jaded view of religion, and thats fine, you are spewing hate yourself. If you cant see that, I certainly dont know what to tell you. A criminal lifestyle? That is laughable should I group all dom/dommes as the same? Its pretty common for them to think they have the only right answer, so okay, all are narcissistic and condescending. Thats fair isnt it?. Its a bit bizarre to me that all your closest friends have an extensive religious background. Is it possible they were fed by the good teachings that made them who they are today? Since your friends followed these teachings at one time, arent you actually insulting them when you say religion reeks havoc on others. They walked away from their religion so therefore they are now good people?
basically its painting all people with the same brush and obviously your experience has been I dont believe in the doctrines, I dont want to live by them, so therefore I wont. As I said earlier that is a choice and thats a okay eith me. But insulting anyone religious is not. Your posts confuse me, you say you raised your family catholic but only liked the education aspect. What does that mean, you used religion only to get what you wanted out of it?
Kirata, I see no meeting of the minds here. We fundamentally experience the world, morality and goodness in not only different ways, but in opposing ways.

Religions are a "how to" on harming people who are different from their self-described norm. It's not that it taps into the inherent badness in people, it's that it rewards hate and interferes with love. Religion = Evil. Religious people may vary, but as I said, to be not evil, those religious people have to reject the religion and use conscience as their guide.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: BecomingV

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

I'll grant there are textual passages in the canons of our Western monotheisms that can readily be turned, and have been, to unfortunate purposes. But other factors influence whether or not they will be. Religion has also inspired much love and selfless giving.

Here, you attribute goodness to the influence of religion, where I assign credit to that natural goodness inherent in all healthy humans.

If you're going to claim that religion inspires conflict and violence, assigning the blame to religion instead of to the darker side of human nature, you can't just turn around and deny in the same breath that religion inspires love and selfless giving too, assigning credit for that to our "natural goodness".

K.

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice
On a smaller scale, I learned yesterday that a gay friend's dad (a "Christian" pastor) boycotted the son's legal same-sex wedding. A handful of ancient, probably misconstrued, patriarchal text snippets mattered more to him than the life and love of his own flesh and blood.

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ORIGINAL: BecomingV
Here, you attribute goodness to the influence of religion, where I assign credit to that natural goodness inherent in all healthy humans.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice
On a smaller scale, I learned yesterday that a gay friend's dad (a "Christian" pastor) boycotted the son's legal same-sex wedding. A handful of ancient, probably misconstrued, patriarchal text snippets mattered more to him than the life and love of his own flesh and blood.

Sorry to hear that, I have a close friend who's sister had a similar experience, after several years the parents finally came around and accepted her. People's beliefs can change when confronted with reality but saddly it seems to take far too long to happen.

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The idea that I am getting is you seem to think people are still doing and thinking the same things they did hundreds of years ago. I doubt there are many groups that go back in history that don't have examples of bad people. Should we judge everyone today by the actions of people who are long gone.

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ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
I have two younger children and I dont know what the future holds, its possible either sex could chose to be gay, bisexual, or heterosexual.

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original: http://www.medicaldaily.com/what-does-discovery-gay-gene-have-do-lgbtq-rights-269404
"Sexual orientation has nothing to do with choice." Bailey told reporters. "Our findings suggest there may be genes at play, and we found evidence for two sets that affect whether a man is gay or straight."

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: BecomingV
Here, you attribute goodness to the influence of religion, where I assign credit to that natural goodness inherent in all healthy humans.

I've seen the faithful routinely do what appears to be the same thing, assigning all the good to religion and all the bad to human nature. It's typically looked suspiciously like confirmation bias to me, so I'm wondering what is your process for assigning credit?

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ORIGINAL: chatterbox24
I have a question, if you dont mind. The father, how has he treated his son otherwise? Has he treated him with respect? Is it the issue of the marriage only?

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: BecomingV
The less intelligent, lacking mental options, go to the baser stuff - and sink into personal attack.

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ORIGINAL: BecomingV
Where did I attack anyone personally? The quote you chose is generic, general and really, a common view.

So if I put you in a group, let's say people who's screen names start with B and then also then also personally attack everyone near you let's say people who's screen names starts with B are poopy pants, it stops being a personal attack?

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: BecomingV

there comes a point in which it's obviously no longer a fair fight among equals

Usually right from the start.

K.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

A few thoughts on the "choosing to be gay" subplot from an actual gay guy:

You might find this interesting.

K.