RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud

RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 5:01:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Given the prison term he received, why would any normal person risk incarceration to cast one or ten extra votes? There is no risk reward that makes any sense here. I keep hearing this argument and I have to wonder. If a prison sentence is enough to stop someone from committing voter fraud, why doesn't the same logic work with all crimes. After all it's against the law to kill someone but that hasn't stopped how many people a year from doing just that? It's against the law to steal but that didn't stop the little thug from ripping off my store for 100 bucks even though he ended up sitting in prison for it. So please enlighten me. If the threat of being locked up doesn't stop anyone else from committing a crime how is it going to stop voter fraud?

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 5:05:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten Please do explain how its preventing someone from voting. seriously you need a fucking ID FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING unless of course your not a legal citizen. How in the world have 30k people survived doing ANYTHING? Want to go to an r rated movie and look young? ID Want to buy Cigs? ID Want to buy Alchohol? ID Want to get a Job? ID Want to get a passport? ID Want to get welfare in most states? ID Want to cash a check? ID Want to use a credit card? ID Want to use a check to pay for something? ID Want to get a registered substance from a pharmacy? ID Want to get a package from UPS or FEDEX? ID Want to buy a gun? ID Want to buy superglue? ID want to buy spray paint? ID Want to buy Cough Syrup? ID want to fly? ID Want to buy a car? ID want to buy most train tickets? ID Want to open a bank account? ID Want to rent a house? ID Want a mortgage? ID Want to get married? ID Want to adopt a pet? ID Want to rent a hotel room? ID Want a hunting license? ID Want to get a cell phone? ID Want to go to the casino? ID Want to donate blood? ID Want to buy an M rated video game? ID Want to buy nail polish at some CVS's? ID Why is everyone up in fucking arms, because they want to add to the list. Want to vote? ID At least half the items in this list require an ID only to establish proof of your age, not to prove who you are. What difference does that make. The point is they already have the id. Hell even DK's poor little aunt finally went out and got a copy. Now according to him this was very difficult, so if the dems are really so concerned about their people, why are they spending all this time bitching about the republicans and not out there trying to get everyone their own id card.

Musicmystery -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 5:37:20 AM)
The difference is that pesky document, the Constitution.

quizzicalkitten -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 5:49:14 AM)
Again please do show me where in the constitution. ... it says you don't have to show id. It specifically words citizens. .. how do you prove your a citizen?

quizzicalkitten -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 5:53:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: sloguy02246 quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten Please do explain how its preventing someone from voting. seriously you need a fucking ID FOR NEARLY EVERYTHING unless of course your not a legal citizen. How in the world have 30k people survived doing ANYTHING? Want to go to an r rated movie and look young? ID Want to buy Cigs? ID Want to buy Alchohol? ID Want to get a Job? ID Want to get a passport? ID Want to get welfare in most states? ID Want to cash a check? ID Want to use a credit card? ID Want to use a check to pay for something? ID Want to get a registered substance from a pharmacy? ID Want to get a package from UPS or FEDEX? ID Want to buy a gun? ID Want to buy superglue? ID want to buy spray paint? ID Want to buy Cough Syrup? ID want to fly? ID Want to buy a car? ID want to buy most train tickets? ID Want to open a bank account? ID Want to rent a house? ID Want a mortgage? ID Want to get married? ID Want to adopt a pet? ID Want to rent a hotel room? ID Want a hunting license? ID Want to get a cell phone? ID Want to go to the casino? ID Want to donate blood? ID Want to buy an M rated video game? ID Want to buy nail polish at some CVS's? ID Why is everyone up in fucking arms, because they want to add to the list. Want to vote? ID At least half the items in this list require an ID only to establish proof of your age, not to prove who you are. What difference does that make. The point is they already have the id. Hell even DK's poor little aunt finally went out and got a copy. Now according to him this was very difficult, so if the dems are really so concerned about their people, why are they spending all this time bitching about the republicans and not out there trying to get everyone their own id card. My state...has programs to do everything they can to get people their ID cards including driving them to places to get their documents and we now have a mobile dmv in a few counties where they bring the dmv to the local highschools. You know.. because it's just so hard....

Musicmystery -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 6:27:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten Again please do show me where in the constitution. ... it says you don't have to show id. It specifically words citizens. .. how do you prove your a citizen? Are you really this insulated and naive? What do you suppose the grounds in court for challenging these laws are? Read a newspaper. Or at least Google things before shooting off your mouth.

cloudboy -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 6:49:48 AM)
The difference is, that no matter what I think, and no matter what my common sense tells me -- I know some undisputed facts. 1. Voter fraud is largely non existent. Read the judges opinion. 2. VOTER ID laws will prevent large numbers of people from voting. 3. The reason behind republicans passing theses laws cannot be #1 so the reason has to be #2. I can think having an ID is reasonable all I want, but the fact is it will prevent a large group of people from voting. I just have to let this go, people just don't operate in a fact driven universe. (Response made in addition to your comment. Not in opposition to anything you said.)

MercTech -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 6:53:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen My 80 something year old aunt got on quite well for many years without a current drivers license. When Alabama passed their version of the voter ID law she went through quite a lot of back and forth to get the voter ID. Why would a retired person bother keeping a current ID except for these stupid voter ID laws? Because without proper ID a person can be delayed in getting medical care. Without proper identification of the patient there is no access to medical history. If you aren't present when your 80 something goes into the E.R. to vouch for his identification; there can be long delays in getting medical history. If your 80 something gets locked out of his living quarters and police notice him trying to get in; without being able to produce identification you might have to go collect him at the jail. It is a sad sorry mess that we have to have documentation of our existence and produce them whenever some Gestapo minded organization requires but those are the facts of our society today. (sung to the toon of a bad country song) Don't let your elders get labeled as homeless.

quizzicalkitten -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 7:03:26 AM)
Voter fraud isn't largely non existant. There have been hundreds if not thousands of reported cases that no one wants to prosecute. The people who will be kept from voting... are fucking lazy ass holes I mean it's may voting happens in November can't find a half hour in 6 months to go and get id? You need this shit for so much more then simple voting. To do anything productive in life you need an id. And my states pushing for it with democrats.. so hmmm... guess we are just right backwards here ....I mean the only reason for voting I'd laws is voter supression. Yes to suppress the noncitizen vote The only people who don't want to prove they are who they say they are... are the people who want to hide something... so what do you have to hide?

cloudboy -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 7:09:48 AM)
Exactly, you don't give a shit about voting rights. You also do not know the facts regarding voter fraud.

quizzicalkitten -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 7:25:00 AM)
I want the people who are legally allowed to vote to vote. I watched voter fraud happen with my own eyes. To say it doesn't happen is niave. To say the jail sentence and fine are enough to stop it from happening is assine. Jail doesn't stop people from killing. Stealing doing drugs or any other crime. Why would it stop people from voting illegally? Estill when there's more to gain by choosing who's in office?

Musicmystery -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 7:55:16 AM)
Bullshit.

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 8:41:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The difference is, that no matter what I think, and no matter what my common sense tells me -- I know some undisputed facts. 1. Voter fraud is largely non existent. Read the judges opinion. 2. VOTER ID laws will prevent large numbers of people from voting. 3. The reason behind republicans passing theses laws cannot be #1 so the reason has to be #2. I can think having an ID is reasonable all I want, but the fact is it will prevent a large group of people from voting. I just have to let this go, people just don't operate in a fact driven universe. (Response made in addition to your comment. Not in opposition to anything you said.) Actually it could be 1, but I don't expect you to understand that. It see by your logic, because you believe there isn't enough voter fraud to worry about and you believe it will stop large people from voting the GOP must be doing it just like you claim they are. It would never occur to you that they might not believe the same things you do or that they might even know more than you do. I have to wonder how you would react if the left suddenly decided it was a good idea.

mnottertail -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 9:05:42 AM)
I want the people who are legally allowed to own guns, to own guns. Gun ID is necessary, and detailed tracking of the guns bought and sold, all medical and court histories, available to anyone on demand, to inspect. Because we have many people who own guns, who shouldn't own guns and are violating the law. 100s of 1000s times more violaters than voter fraud.

joether -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 9:11:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten Again please do show me where in the constitution. ... it says you don't have to show id. It specifically words citizens. .. how do you prove your a citizen? The 4th Amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." A company required by law to check your age (i.e. buying beer) is not violating your 4th amendment rights. It has gone to the courts numerous times and been upheld. Why? Its not the government doing the checking. The government can only check your information if it can show probable cause. Which is why a police officer can not just ask for your ID on the street. However, if the police officer is looking for someone closely matching your description, they can. And usually they will state so or explain on question. Like with every amendment in the Bill of Rights and the 17 amendments that follow; there are a host of exceptions to the law. You can find them with a simple google.com search.

joether -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 9:26:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The difference is, that no matter what I think, and no matter what my common sense tells me -- I know some undisputed facts. 1. Voter fraud is largely non existent. Read the judges opinion. 2. VOTER ID laws will prevent large numbers of people from voting. 3. The reason behind republicans passing theses laws cannot be #1 so the reason has to be #2. I can think having an ID is reasonable all I want, but the fact is it will prevent a large group of people from voting. I just have to let this go, people just don't operate in a fact driven universe. (Response made in addition to your comment. Not in opposition to anything you said.) Actually it could be 1, but I don't expect you to understand that. It see by your logic, because you believe there isn't enough voter fraud to worry about and you believe it will stop large people from voting the GOP must be doing it just like you claim they are. It would never occur to you that they might not believe the same things you do or that they might even know more than you do. I have to wonder how you would react if the left suddenly decided it was a good idea. The idea of Voter ID is to suppress the vote. Yet, the evidence from many sources show that voter fraud is measured in the single or tens digits. Yet in order to swing a large voter on the scale of state and/or federal elections, would take tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of votes. It would be pretty obvious if Galactus won the Presidential election in 2016. An it wouldn't be from voter fraud by individuals, but hackers screwing with electronic voting devices in several states! The GOP understands that when many people vote, Democrats win elections. So what do they have to gain by allowing many people to vote in the first place? Special interest groups have much to gain by only a smaller number of voters, voting. So what do they gain by large groups of Americans voting? And that many of those special interest groups are under 'The Big GOP Tent'. An who tries to keep pushing the idea that government is better if it were smaller and controlled by fewer people? The GOP/TP. Its not much of a conspiracy since the motivation is so easily understood, the players kept in the lime-light (thanks to the Liberalis Media), and enough educated individuals that are aware of how such measures would undermine the United States. If you believe that voter ID fraud is rampant, its up to you to supply the burden of evidence. And that this evidence must be unbiased, un-tampered, and fully verifiable. That has not happen by those charging that voter fraud is rampant. If it were so great of a problem (i.e. like the Theory of Climate Change) it would stand to reason there would be a great sum of evidence that is easily verifiable as been true and factual, from many unbiased source, currently known. Yet, the opposite is true.

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 12:46:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I want the people who are legally allowed to own guns, to own guns. Gun ID is necessary, and detailed tracking of the guns bought and sold, all medical and court histories, available to anyone on demand, to inspect. Because we have many people who own guns, who shouldn't own guns and are violating the law. 100s of 1000s times more violaters than voter fraud. Not sure what this has to do with voting but I don't have a problem with them making you show ID to buy a gun. We can worry about the inspections and detailed tracking on demand when they start going door to door after an election to double check that id. Until then, that part of your rant is just another example of your inability to discuss something without resorting to extremes. And I will give you credit for typing out a whole post without using the word nutsucker.

mnottertail -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 12:52:36 PM)
Nah, if we show our id to election officials, who are fuckin party hack nobodies with all our information to correllate, then we show the gun id and detailed tracking of our guns. Equivalent argument, lets do the gun stuff first, it is far and away the larger problem.

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 12:56:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Nah, if we show our id to election officials, who are fuckin party hack nobodies with all our information to correllate, then we show the gun id and detailed tracking of our guns. Equivalent argument, lets do the gun stuff first, it is far and away the larger problem. Like I said, just another example of your inability to discuss something without resorting to extremes.

mnottertail -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/7/2014 1:16:26 PM)
Nope, no extremes here, equivalent argument ad absurdum one and all.

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