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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 1:26:54 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'd be against it. Not voting is still exercising your right to vote. You are choosing to not vote for any of the candidates.

It's as stupid an idea as forcing all Citizens to buy a gun.

Or compelling them to get vaccinated, attend school, serve on juries, fight in the military, or buy health insurance?

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 1:36:49 PM

BamaD

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FR
The right to vote like the right to bear arms includes the right not too.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 1:46:15 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
We have compulsory voting here. It doesn't seem to produce results that are significantly different to those generated by the current US system.

We have widespread disillusion with both parties who still dominate the system. The same kinds of complaints that US voters are making about their politicians are made here with the same result (or lack of result, if you prefer)...

That's interesting. Do you have any idea why that is so? The article makes the following point:

...But Cowan makes a compelling case that compulsory voting in federal elections would actually be the most elegant way to revitalize our democracy overnight, without having to chase a series of piecemeal reforms in dozens of legislatures. Think about it: If voter participation suddenly went from say 40 percent in an off year election to 95 percent (assuming there will always be some slackers and protesters who defy the law and risk the penalty), then the modern indistry of voter turnout operations would magically go away.

No more arcane microtargeting and database wizardry. No more overwrought direct mail playing to the most irrational fears of gun owners or xenophobes. No more "base elections" where the only message is that the other guy is a Satan worshipper who will call for the horsemen of the apocalypse if you let him win.

Suddenly candidates would have to think about ideas again- about how to persuade all these skeptical, unaffiliated voters that they actually have a plan to govern. The parties would almost certainly open their primaries to independents, if not move entirely to nonpartisan elections, because it would be the only way to make sure their nominees had broad enough appeal to win. Candidates would have to be more responsive to the broad electorate than to the tiny number of wealthy contributers who currently help them get the vote...

How would you respond to this argument, in terms of Australia's system? Why has compulsory voting failed to have the desired effect? Is it simply that voters, rather than being jaded with the political process, simply don't care?

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 1:49:04 PM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
The right to vote like the right to bear arms includes the right not too.

What if they amended the Constitution?

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 1:56:35 PM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I'm not exactly sure how I feel about this, yet. I need some more time to digest, cogitate, and process but, I think this author makes some interesting points.
Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

I'd be against it. Not voting is still exercising your right to vote. You are choosing to not vote for any of the candidates.

It's as stupid an idea as forcing all Citizens to buy a gun.

Not going to the polling station and performing your civil duty is NOT a freedom. Its called 'being to lazy' to perform your role as a citizen of this nation. Given that there is absentee ballots, there really is no excuse to not vote.

I say we should publish the names and locations of those that do not bother to show up and vote. That this list is withheld for sixty days to allow those that didn't vote a fair chance to explain reason(s). Because I'd like to know who is to lazy to do their fucking civil duty!

Three unexcused absentees in a row? Revoking of the citizenship. If you cant get to a polling location even once in a 12 year period of time, when said polling locations are closer than most people work in America....is bullshit.

And to help people from losing their citizenship, getting to the polling location without to much worry: Make November 4th a national holiday, Voting Day!

I take voting very seriously. An those that don't care who is in power, must not need that citizenship....

Since few votes help allow tyrannical governments to become a reality, while many votes allow a Democratic Republic to flourish.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 4:02:37 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I'd be against it. Not voting is still exercising your right to vote. You are choosing to not vote for any of the candidates.
It's as stupid an idea as forcing all Citizens to buy a gun.

Or compelling them to get vaccinated, attend school, serve on juries, fight in the military, or buy health insurance?

Vaccination is a question of public health.

There are ways to get around school attendance (ie. home school).

Can't have a "jury of your peers" if you can't get peers to volunteer.

The US Military is an all-volunteer group. If you don't want to fight in the military, don't join the military.

I'm opposed to mandating purchasing health insurance.

In case you missed the underlying theme (which is obvious), the right to vote is a right implied in the US Constitution and the right to bear arms is explicitly stated. Vaccination, school attendance, and health insurance aren't rights implied or explicitly stated in the Constitution. The military, while in the Constitution isn't a requirement for anyone. Being called for jury duty supports a right explicitly stated in the Constitution.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 4:09:36 PM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I'm not exactly sure how I feel about this, yet. I need some more time to digest, cogitate, and process but, I think this author makes some interesting points.
Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

I'd be against it. Not voting is still exercising your right to vote. You are choosing to not vote for any of the candidates.
It's as stupid an idea as forcing all Citizens to buy a gun.

Not going to the polling station and performing your civil duty is NOT a freedom. Its called 'being to lazy' to perform your role as a citizen of this nation. Given that there is absentee ballots, there really is no excuse to not vote.
I say we should publish the names and locations of those that do not bother to show up and vote. That this list is withheld for sixty days to allow those that didn't vote a fair chance to explain reason(s). Because I'd like to know who is to lazy to do their fucking civil duty!
Three unexcused absentees in a row? Revoking of the citizenship. If you cant get to a polling location even once in a 12 year period of time, when said polling locations are closer than most people work in America....is bullshit.
And to help people from losing their citizenship, getting to the polling location without to much worry: Make November 4th a national holiday, Voting Day!
I take voting very seriously. An those that don't care who is in power, must not need that citizenship....
Since few votes help allow tyrannical governments to become a reality, while many votes allow a Democratic Republic to flourish.

I, too, take voting seriously. I take it so seriously, that I don't want Citizens voting in elections they have no idea about. Are you going to make understanding an election mandatory? How are you going to do that?

I don't vote in elections I haven't researched. I can't do my civic duty by not knowing what I'm voting for/against. I also don't vote in elections where a candidate is running unopposed.

I would love it if everyone else would follow those same guidelines. But, alas, too many people look for a letter behind a name and pull that lever (yeah, I know, I'm going old school with it).

I don't doubt you do your due diligence, Joether, but forcing people to vote without forcing them to do their due diligence is a recipe for disaster. I mean, just look at our current Administration...

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Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 5:22:19 PM

MrRodgers

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Well because this is America, hit 'em where they ALL know...in the pocketbook.

No benefits, no subsidies, no tax deductions, no cost overruns, no bank insurance. no crop insurance, no cap gains immorality, no govt. contracting, 'no noth'n' from govt....until you vote. Of course, most of that shit shouldn't be anyway but taking away that stuff...would hurt.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 6:59:02 PM

Zonie63

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FR

I just thought of something. We could eliminate voting altogether and have public officeholders chosen at random when they enter the Publishers Clearinghouse Sweepstakes.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 8:28:14 PM

thompsonx

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Not going to the polling station and performing your civil duty is NOT a freedom. Its called 'being to lazy' to perform your role as a citizen of this nation. Given that there is absentee ballots, there really is no excuse to not vote.

Why should someone vote when there is no choice?

I say we should publish the names and locations of those that do not bother to show up and vote. That this list is withheld for sixty days to allow those that didn't vote a fair chance to explain reason(s). Because I'd like to know who is to lazy to do their fucking civil duty!

Your opinion that people are too lazy to vote is nothing more than an ignorant unsubstantiated opinion.

Three unexcused absentees in a row? Revoking of the citizenship. If you cant get to a polling location even once in a 12 year period of time, when said polling locations are closer than most people work in America....is bullshit.

When ones choies are being beaten with a stick or being beat with a rod there is no choice and no reason to dignify that farce with a vote.

I take voting very seriously.

So you like to play in a rigged game...how fun for you.

An those that don't care who is in power, must not need that citizenship....

That would be an ignorant unsubstantiated opinion.

Since few votes help allow tyrannical governments to become a reality, while many votes allow a Democratic Republic to flourish.

When your choices are tweedle dee and tweedle dum why would anyone vote?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/1/2014 8:29:13 PM >

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 8:38:57 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Vaccination is a question of public health.

So you re in favor of the government coercing you to do what you ae told.

There are ways to get around school attendance (ie. home school).

Home school is still school. You have not got around anything.

Can't have a "jury of your peers" if you can't get peers to volunteer.

There are tons of people who volunteer for jurries.

The US Military is an all-volunteer group. If you don't want to fight in the military, don't join the military.

How does that squae with the militia you are always pimping?

I'm opposed to mandating purchasing health insurance.

Vaccinations are ok because that is a mater of public health but health insurance is not? a function of public health??

In case you missed the underlying theme (which is obvious), the right to vote is a right implied in the US Constitution and the right to bear arms is explicitly stated.

You have told us many times that the only part of the constitution that is valid are he enumerated powers. This must mean that you do not believe that we are allowed to vote.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/1/2014 8:40:40 PM >

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/1/2014 8:51:28 PM

subcdinsprings

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The Constitution states in several places that representatives are chosen by the people. It doesn't get more specific just as it doesn't get specific about how one exercises their freedom of speech...

In addition, the Constitution only places limits on the government, not individual citizens.

< Message edited by subcdinsprings -- 5/1/2014 8:52:43 PM >

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 12:58:08 AM

metamorfosis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Vaccination is a question of public health.

Eliminating political corruption is vital to maintaining a democracy.

There are ways to get around school attendance (ie. home school).

As another poster mentioned, no there aren't, not legally.

Can't have a "jury of your peers" if you can't get peers to volunteer.

Can't "form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity" with a broken political system.

The US Military is an all-volunteer group. If you don't want to fight in the military, don't join the military.

Haven't you heard of the draft?

I'm opposed to mandating purchasing health insurance.

That doesn't stop the government from mandating it, though.

In case you missed the underlying theme (which is obvious), the right to vote is a right implied in the US Constitution and the right to bear arms is explicitly stated. Vaccination, school attendance, and health insurance aren't rights implied or explicitly stated in the Constitution. The military, while in the Constitution isn't a requirement for anyone. Being called for jury duty supports a right explicitly stated in the Constitution.

I totally agree. The government does have the right to mandate behavior in order to protect the rights guaranteed in the Constitution.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 7:23:59 AM

DesideriScuri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Vaccination is a question of public health.
Eliminating political corruption is vital to maintaining a democracy.

Forcing people to vote who don't give a fuck about voting isn't likely to reduce corruption. It's more likely to increase it as mo' money, mo' money, mo' money will be spent on ads to entice and lure people with bullshit rhetoric. There are already too many "low information" voters (on both sides of the aisle).

quote:

There are ways to get around school attendance (ie. home school).
As another poster mentioned, no there aren't, not legally.

Right. Homeschooling is illegal.

quote:

Can't have a "jury of your peers" if you can't get peers to volunteer.
Can't "form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity" with a broken political system.

And, yet, the USA is still here 230+ years later...

quote:

The US Military is an all-volunteer group. If you don't want to fight in the military, don't join the military.
Haven't you heard of the draft?

The draft that is no longer legal in the US? That the one you're talking about?

quote:

I'm opposed to mandating purchasing health insurance.
That doesn't stop the government from mandating it, though.

No, it didn't, obviously. But, just because they mandated it doesn't mean it's a good idea. The banned alcohol at one point, didn't they? That wasn't such a good idea. I never said they couldn't mandate voting. I said it was a bad idea.

quote:

In case you missed the underlying theme (which is obvious), the right to vote is a right implied in the US Constitution and the right to bear arms is explicitly stated. Vaccination, school attendance, and health insurance aren't rights implied or explicitly stated in the Constitution. The military, while in the Constitution isn't a requirement for anyone. Being called for jury duty supports a right explicitly stated in the Constitution.
I totally agree. The government does have the right to mandate behavior in order to protect the rights guaranteed in the Constitution.

Only to a certain extent. Your rights guaranteed in the Constitution are not reliant on someone else's vote. There's the faulty logic you're using.

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What I support:

A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
Personal Responsibility
Help for the truly needy
Limited Government
Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 8:06:22 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

FR

I just thought of something. We could eliminate voting altogether and have public officeholders chosen at random when they enter the Publishers Clearinghouse Sweepstakes.

I think that would pretty much guarantee that it could not be any worse and holds the theoretical possibility of being better.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 8:08:18 AM

thompsonx

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Right. Homeschooling is illegal.

Home schooling is still government mandated compulsory education...you have not got around shit.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 8:09:45 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subcdinsprings

The Constitution states in several places that representatives are chosen by the people. It doesn't get more specific just as it doesn't get specific about how one exercises their freedom of speech...

In addition, the Constitution only places limits on the government, not individual citizens.

I am not sure what your point is?

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 8:11:28 AM

thompsonx

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And, yet, the USA is still here 230+ years later...

If we can take the word of john quincy adams it is still just as fucking corrupt.

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 8:15:23 AM

thompsonx

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The draft that is no longer legal in the US? That the one you're talking about?

The government that can force you to buy medical insurance for less is somehow incapable of instituting a draft

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RE: An Interesting Idea? - 5/2/2014 8:19:44 AM

thompsonx

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Only to a certain extent. Your rights guaranteed in the Constitution are not reliant on someone else's vote. There's the faulty logic you're using.

The 4th. and 14th. ammendment predate the civil rights legislation of the 60's. Someone elses vote kept those aspects of those two ammendments mute until someone elses vote gave them voice. Try reading a little history and perhaps your post would not appear so mindnumbingly stupid.

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