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US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/4/2014 9:17:23 PM

tweakabelle

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In a frank interview in today's Ynet, un-named US officals blamed Israel for the recent collapse of the Kerry peace initiative.
"The American version of why the current round of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians failed is fundamentally different to the one presented by Israeli officials. The list of those to blame for this failure is also very different. From the US perspective, the issue of the settlements was largely to blame.
Using advanced software, the Americans drew a border outline in the West Bank that gives Israel sovereignty over some 80 percent of the settlers that live there today. The remaining 20 percent were meant to evacuate. In Jerusalem, the proposed border is based on Bill Clinton's plan - Jewish neighborhoods to Israel, Arab neighborhoods to the Palestinians.

The Israeli government made no response to the American plan, and avoided drawing its own border outline.

The criticism against the Israeli government is presented in terms of wounds inflicted by a friend who could still be trusted: Israel is very dear to them, but the wounds are deep."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4515821,00.html

Is anyone surprised that the Israelis have sabotaged another effort to bring peace to the region, and with it, all chance of
the much-vaunted but now moribund Two State Solution? For how much longer will the US tolerate finance and protect Israeli intransigence?

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/4/2014 9:40:55 PM

RottenJohnny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
For how much longer will the US tolerate finance and protect Israeli intransigence?

Probably for as long as people keep calling for Israel's destruction.

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/4/2014 9:59:07 PM

TheHeretic

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How do un-named individuals speak frankly?

But WOW, though. An Obama administration agency claims its failure is all somebody elses fault? Now that is some breaking news right there!

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/4/2014 10:07:52 PM

vangogh

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quote:

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/4/2014 10:09:28 PM

vangogh

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quote:

(in reply to vangogh)

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/5/2014 3:37:03 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

How do un-named individuals speak frankly?

But WOW, though. An Obama administration agency claims its failure is all somebody elses fault? Now that is some breaking news right there!

I'm afraid you are going to have to explain to me how the inability of the Palestinians and Israelis to reach a peace agreement is the fault of the Obama Administration.

As Palestinians and Israelis have been unable to resolve their issues since at least the 1920s and 1930s (some would say a lot earlier) it seems a bit of a stretch to blame an Administration that only came into existence in 2008. It makes as much sense as blaming Obama for the outbreak of World War I in 1914.

But since when has reality had anything to do with your partisan agenda?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/5/2014 4:28:20 AM >

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/5/2014 8:49:08 AM

kdsub

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This cannot be true!.. You have told us over and over how the US is just Zionist lackey's... No way would they defy their Zionist masters in Congress.

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/5/2014 12:51:55 PM

Phydeaux

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Yeah Kerry calling Israeli system apartheid..
Only thing that accomplished is alienating some of your Jewish vote

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/5/2014 1:11:18 PM

Tkman117

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Well, if the shoe fits

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/6/2014 12:15:16 AM

MrBukani

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Jews rule the universe!
Jews in space, history of the world part II.
Israel demands respect.
US is the BIG Jew fan.
Jews 4ever.
Jews control your thoughts through the one god.
Always look on the bright side of life.

In other words, why would jews listen to baggering agreements. The land is theirs by right and that's the end of it.

Kabbalalalalalalalalalalalalah

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 10

RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/6/2014 2:51:48 AM

farglebargle

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Here's the crux of the issue as an American Jew. Our FOUNDING PRINCIPLES are "Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness".

How effective is the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT at securing and promoting those rights for ALL PEOPLE, both inside and outside the Green Line?

Let me answer my own question. Shamefully and with such bad faith it's impossible for any American to support them, and still hold our American values.

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/6/2014 3:16:29 AM

SadistDave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

How do un-named individuals speak frankly?

But WOW, though. An Obama administration agency claims its failure is all somebody elses fault? Now that is some breaking news right there!

I'm afraid you are going to have to explain to me how the inability of the Palestinians and Israelis to reach a peace agreement is the fault of the Obama Administration.

As Palestinians and Israelis have been unable to resolve their issues since at least the 1920s and 1930s (some would say a lot earlier) it seems a bit of a stretch to blame an Administration that only came into existence in 2008. It makes as much sense as blaming Obama for the outbreak of World War I in 1914.

But since when has reality had anything to do with your partisan agenda?

Reality: On Wednesday the 23rd of July 2008 Candidate Barack Inane Obama pledged to both Palestinian President Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu that if elected President he would "not waste a minute" until he had brought peace to the region. Not surprisingly Obama's inept meddling and the continued incompetence of his decreasingly excellent State Department officials have made the area more dangerous than ever.

Since it was one of his promises to his anti-Semitic voter base on the campaign trail AND to the two heads of state involved, it is completely fair to blame his policies failures on him.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 5/6/2014 3:18:28 AM >

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To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/6/2014 3:20:58 AM

MrBukani

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Here's the crux of the issue as an American Jew. Our FOUNDING PRINCIPLES are "Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness".

How effective is the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT at securing and promoting those rights for ALL PEOPLE, both inside and outside the Green Line?

Let me answer my own question. Shamefully and with such bad faith it's impossible for any American to support them, and still hold our American values.

The pursuit of happiness?

You mean bombing Iraq was in the pursuit of happiness?

Okay

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 13

RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/7/2014 1:14:14 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Yeah Kerry calling Israeli system apartheid..
Only thing that accomplished is alienating some of your Jewish vote

Take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCDT0cW5y4A

The IDF soldiers tell the truth: "This road is for Jews only, that road is for Arabs" Overt, naked racial segregation ie apartheid Israeli style. There are many many more vids at YouTube exposing the same crime of apartheid in the West Bank.

Now tell me that there is no apartheid enforced by Israel in the West Bank.

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/7/2014 2:35:15 AM

Politesub53

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Yeah Kerry calling Israeli system apartheid..
Only thing that accomplished is alienating some of your Jewish vote

Take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCDT0cW5y4A

The IDF soldiers tell the truth: "This road is for Jews only, that road is for Arabs" Overt, naked racial segregation ie apartheid Israeli style. There are many many more vids at YouTube exposing the same crime of apartheid in the West Bank.

Now tell me that there is no apartheid enforced by Israel in the West Bank.

The sad thing is Tweaks, that you need to point it out to him. If he is as smart as he thinks he would have spotted it long ago like most of us did.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 15

RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/7/2014 5:43:48 PM

Phydeaux

Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Yeah Kerry calling Israeli system apartheid..
Only thing that accomplished is alienating some of your Jewish vote

Take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCDT0cW5y4A

The IDF soldiers tell the truth: "This road is for Jews only, that road is for Arabs" Overt, naked racial segregation ie apartheid Israeli style. There are many many more vids at YouTube exposing the same crime of apartheid in the West Bank.

Now tell me that there is no apartheid enforced by Israel in the West Bank.

I don't argue that Israel isn't apartheid.

I argued that Kerry saying so served no constructive purpose for world peace. Especially as obama and team are feckless and incompetent.

On the other hand I predict Jews voting republican will be up slightly in 2014.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 5/7/2014 5:45:07 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 16

RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/9/2014 1:06:45 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Yeah Kerry calling Israeli system apartheid..
Only thing that accomplished is alienating some of your Jewish vote

Take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCDT0cW5y4A

The IDF soldiers tell the truth: "This road is for Jews only, that road is for Arabs" Overt, naked racial segregation ie apartheid Israeli style. There are many many more vids at YouTube exposing the same crime of apartheid in the West Bank.

Now tell me that there is no apartheid enforced by Israel in the West Bank.

I don't argue that Israel isn't apartheid.

I argued that Kerry saying so served no constructive purpose for world peace. Especially as obama and team are feckless and incompetent.

On the other hand I predict Jews voting republican will be up slightly in 2014.

I'm glad to hear that you don't contest that Israel is operating an apartheid system in the West Bank.

I am interested to hear why you insist that mentioning this fact "served no constructive purpose for world peace". Surely the US telling the truth about the horror of Israeli apartheid might have brought home to the Israelis precisely what the world thinks of their appalling behaviour. It would be a signal to Israel that the US patience with its criminal behaviour isn't unlimited, and therefore encourage Israel to observe international law and negotiate in good faith. It would be a signal that the US is not prepared to provide unlimited diplomatic cover for Israeli behaviour forever, a signal Israel needs to receive if it is to be saved from its own right wing fanatics whose behaviour is beginning to threaten the existence of Israel from within.

Remaining silent about an 'ally' committing one of the worst possible racist crimes compromises the US's role in promoting human rights, as it loudly proclaims itself to be doing. It would certainly be noticed and receive favourable mention in the Arab world, one area where the US can do with all the friends it can get.

So the US calling Israeli apartheid for what it is is certainly conducive to world peace.

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/9/2014 1:23:03 AM

MrBukani

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When you get bombed by the enemy you make them a seperate road.
It has little to do with the term apartheid. It's a dutch word that was used in south africa for whites setting blacks apart.
You are just trying to corrupt the discussion with words, that you think have shock value.
Call it segregation and you are right, but apartheid died in africa.
Why don't you call the jews nazis?

Anyone using the word apartheid for Israel is just lookin for mediacoverage.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 5/9/2014 1:27:14 AM >

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Post #: 18

RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/9/2014 3:22:17 AM

tweakabelle

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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

When you get bombed by the enemy you make them a seperate road.
It has little to do with the term apartheid. It's a dutch word that was used in south africa for whites setting blacks apart.
You are just trying to corrupt the discussion with words, that you think have shock value.
Call it segregation and you are right, but apartheid died in africa.
Why don't you call the jews nazis?

Anyone using the word apartheid for Israel is just lookin for mediacoverage.

If it was merely a case of a separate road or two, your argument might, just might hold water. But it's not just segregated roads.

It's segregated legal systems, voting rights, towns, schools, water rights, travel entitlements ..... the list is endless.

There is only one word to describe organised State enforced segregation on this level - it's 'apartheid'. Conditions on the West Bank (if not all of Israel, as some argue) certainly meet the criteria for the crime of apartheid:

"The crime of Apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court as inhumane acts of a character similar to other crimes against humanity "committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_apartheid

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/9/2014 3:33:18 AM >

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RE: US says Israel caused talks collapse: Ynet - 5/9/2014 7:16:29 AM

MrBukani

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I suggest you go fight for the rights of aboriginals in your own country first. Since the USA refuses to be accountable in the Hague, I see little progress in international law.

Israel has been under attack since they got their land back by rights inalienable.
The palistinians practically invented modern terrorism. Everybody has to pay a price. And at the moment the palistinians pay that price, because they refused to negotiate to start with. Sad but true.

There are many countries still practicing 'apartheid' like you say. Your own country does as well. So it's what we call shouting terms to get a shock effect. Nothing more nothing less.

You target Israel since day one you stepped in this arena. And the rest you seem to conviently forget. It will get tired and old soon.

One day you will realize you are not fighting for justice in general, but you fight to ward of your long held grudges against a people who do not deserve it. A state is formed by it's people democratically. The muslims still shout for the new caliph on the other side.
You will someday understand what it's like to crawl your fingernails out, in a gaschamber on top of your family and friends. And say,

NEVER AGAIN!

It's like PS always shouts racism at every chance he gets. Very untrue and very sad.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 5/9/2014 7:18:15 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 20

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