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You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! - 5/5/2014 10:56:16 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		The US Supreme Court up holds Prayer at Public Meetings.

That's right, the conservative justices once more handed the GOP another win. Since their 'Congressional' Division has done some poorly, their Judicial Division has had to take up much of the slack...

This is outright a violation of the 1st amendment. Only an idiot would arrive at the justice's position. That is how dumb it is. So if there is a public meeting, any religion can open with a prayer, including the Satanists. An since the public meeting can not discriminate, if there is one member of each religion, giving a prayer lasting 30 minutes; That's a REALLY long time before the meeting actually starts.

Oh, an if someone wishes to give their prayer but its not with a religion, they should be allowed. Yeah, and I'm assuming each person is considerate enough to limit their prayer to just 30 seconds. But we all know that is full of shit....

So the justices have allowed....NOTHING...to get accomplished at a public meeting for at least 10 hours. Its nice to know we have such 'intelligent' and 'wise' people on the highest bench of the land....

There is a reason why we have 'Separation of Church and State'. And why a 'generalized' prayer helps. Since people at public meetings want to get stuff DONE not listen to mindless religious crap!

"Bow your heads, while we give thanks to MS-DOS! Because without MS-DOS, much of the technology we have today would simply not exist...."
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 11:22:09 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline

That's the United States of America and our culture.

I wonder why that saying became so popular, while in Rome do as the Romans do?

Majority vote rules and I do think people will live through it.

(in reply to joether)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 11:27:37 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24



That's the United States of America and our culture.

I wonder why that saying became so popular, while in Rome do as the Romans do?

Majority vote rules and I do think people will live through it.

Till I noticed who the OP was I thought this was going to be ridiculing people
being offended by someone elses prayer. But then I realized that the op was one of the offended.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to chatterbox24)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 12:30:12 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24



That's the United States of America and our culture.

I wonder why that saying became so popular, while in Rome do as the Romans do?

Majority vote rules and I do think people will live through it.


Just fyi, that is actually not the way Constitutionally protected rights are supposed to work. The reason we have an enumerated Bill of Rights is precisely because our founding fathers did NOT want certain things to be subject to the whim of the democratic majority. The Bill of Rights is actually there to protect the minority groups or individuals from tyranny of the majority. This is our history.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to chatterbox24)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 12:49:40 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

That's right, the conservative justices once more handed the GOP another win.

You're making shit up again...

Though the decision split the court along ideological lines, the Obama administration backed the winning side ~Source

Lawyers for the Obama administration filed an amicus brief in favor of religious invocations at government meetings, arguing that the prayers in question do not amount to an unconstitutional establishment of religion. The administration's brief was signed by Donald B. Verrilli, Jr., Solicitor General; Stuart F. Delery, Acting Assistant Attorney General; Edwini S. Kneedler, Deputy Solicitor General, Sarah E. Harrington, Assistant to the Solicitor General; and attorneys Matthew M. Collette and Lowell V Sturgill, Jr.

Brief for the United States as Amicus Curiae supporting Petitioner

K.


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 1:17:13 PM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Even so, it's relatively safe to say prayer is not tyranny
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess


quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24



That's the United States of America and our culture.

I wonder why that saying became so popular, while in Rome do as the Romans do?

Majority vote rules and I do think people will live through it.


Just fyi, that is actually not the way Constitutionally protected rights are supposed to work. The reason we have an enumerated Bill of Rights is precisely because our founding fathers did NOT want certain things to be subject to the whim of the democratic majority. The Bill of Rights is actually there to protect the minority groups or individuals from tyranny of the majority. This is our history.


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 2:23:49 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Just fyi, that is actually not the way Constitutionally protected rights are supposed to work. The reason we have an enumerated Bill of Rights is precisely because our founding fathers did NOT want certain things to be subject to the whim of the democratic majority. The Bill of Rights is actually there to protect the minority groups or individuals from tyranny of the majority. This is our history.


What she said.

There are numerous statements by the founding fathers expressing their scathing condemnation of democracies where the majority can legally oppress the minority.

(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 3:40:17 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

That's right, the conservative justices once more handed the GOP another win.

You're making shit up again...

Though the decision split the court along ideological lines, the Obama administration backed the winning side ~Source

Lawyers for the Obama administration filed an amicus brief in favor of religious invocations at government meetings, arguing that the prayers in question do not amount to an unconstitutional establishment of religion. The administration's brief was signed by Donald B. Verrilli, Jr., Solicitor General; Stuart F. Delery, Acting Assistant Attorney General; Edwini S. Kneedler, Deputy Solicitor General, Sarah E. Harrington, Assistant to the Solicitor General; and attorneys Matthew M. Collette and Lowell V Sturgill, Jr.

Brief for the United States as Amicus Curiae supporting Petitioner

K.




Holy cow. For the second time during the obama administration I'm required to actually support an action of the president. I wonder how long till he changes his mind....

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 3:44:00 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The US Supreme Court up holds Prayer at Public Meetings.

That's right, the conservative justices once more handed the GOP another win. Since their 'Congressional' Division has done some poorly, their Judicial Division has had to take up much of the slack...

This is outright a violation of the 1st amendment.


Really. Quote the section and verse thats violated. I *dare* you.

quote:







Only an idiot would arrive at the justice's position. That is how dumb it is. So if there is a public meeting, any religion can open with a prayer, including the Satanists. An since the public meeting can not discriminate, if there is one member of each religion, giving a prayer lasting 30 minutes; That's a REALLY long time before the meeting actually starts.

Oh, an if someone wishes to give their prayer but its not with a religion, they should be allowed. Yeah, and I'm assuming each person is considerate enough to limit their prayer to just 30 seconds. But we all know that is full of shit....

So the justices have allowed....NOTHING...to get accomplished at a public meeting for at least 10 hours. Its nice to know we have such 'intelligent' and 'wise' people on the highest bench of the land....

There is a reason why we have 'Separation of Church and State'. And why a 'generalized' prayer helps. Since people at public meetings want to get stuff DONE not listen to mindless religious crap!

"Bow your heads, while we give thanks to MS-DOS! Because without MS-DOS, much of the technology we have today would simply not exist...."



Yeah, thats all delusional crap again.
Just because one *can* open with a prayer, doesn't mean whatever organization *will* open with a prayer.
Nor does it mean that multiple organizations will be allowed to conduct a prayer.

The ruling is actually a pretty good victory for strict constructionists.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 3:48:17 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		More to the point, the prayer needs to be "Ceremonial" and "Meaningless". And to avoid offending Jews like myself, you need to avoid mentioning referring to the idolatry inherent in worshipping images of "Jesus", referring to any "New Covenant", "Holy Spirit", "Ressurection", "Died for our sins", or other New Testament rejection of my religion.

*I* do not need to be insulted by your prayer. And if your prayer IS insulting to me, IN A PUBLIC SPACE, then the prayer is wrong, not me.

If you're praying "In Jesus' Name", you're doing it wrong.



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 5/5/2014 3:49:23 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 4:16:56 PM   
evesgrden


Posts: 597
Joined: 6/9/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

The US Supreme Court up holds Prayer at Public Meetings.

That's right, the conservative justices once more handed the GOP another win. Since their 'Congressional' Division has done some poorly, their Judicial Division has had to take up much of the slack...

This is outright a violation of the 1st amendment.


Really. Quote the section and verse thats violated. I *dare* you.

quote:







Only an idiot would arrive at the justice's position. That is how dumb it is. So if there is a public meeting, any religion can open with a prayer, including the Satanists. An since the public meeting can not discriminate, if there is one member of each religion, giving a prayer lasting 30 minutes; That's a REALLY long time before the meeting actually starts.

Oh, an if someone wishes to give their prayer but its not with a religion, they should be allowed. Yeah, and I'm assuming each person is considerate enough to limit their prayer to just 30 seconds. But we all know that is full of shit....

So the justices have allowed....NOTHING...to get accomplished at a public meeting for at least 10 hours. Its nice to know we have such 'intelligent' and 'wise' people on the highest bench of the land....

There is a reason why we have 'Separation of Church and State'. And why a 'generalized' prayer helps. Since people at public meetings want to get stuff DONE not listen to mindless religious crap!

"Bow your heads, while we give thanks to MS-DOS! Because without MS-DOS, much of the technology we have today would simply not exist...."



Yeah, thats all delusional crap again.
Just because one *can* open with a prayer, doesn't mean whatever organization *will* open with a prayer.
Nor does it mean that multiple organizations will be allowed to conduct a prayer.

The ruling is actually a pretty good victory for strict constructionists.


and now I am compelled to agree with phydeaux



One can open with a moment of "silent prayer"; to each their own, and then on with the agenda. Or call it quiet reflection. Regardless, it is most importantly not about establishing a religion. What it does accomplish is making room for all by not giving preference to any one or none.


_____________________________

What you permit, you promote.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 4:57:19 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden
One can open with a moment of "silent prayer"; to each their own, and then on with the agenda. Or call it quiet reflection. Regardless, it is most importantly not about establishing a religion. What it does accomplish is making room for all by not giving preference to any one or none.


That is not what the Supremes approved, unfortunately. They approved explicitly sectarian prayers which does seem to violate the establishment clause. I read the decision and found the logic opaque to say the least.

(in reply to evesgrden)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 5:03:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		There's a word for the five supreme court justices voting for this.

Anti-semite.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 5:05:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There's a word for the five supreme court justices voting for this.

Anti-semite.

Amongst others.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 5:57:36 PM   
RottenJohnny


Posts: 1677
Joined: 5/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There's a word for the five supreme court justices voting for this.

Anti-semite.

Amongst others.

Yeah, well, after the ACA debacle that lead to the mandate to purchase health insurance you'll just have to excuse me if I have absolutely no sympathy for your frustrations.

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 7:00:59 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There's a word for the five supreme court justices voting for this.

Anti-semite.

Amongst others.

Personally, I see no rational reason why anyone should be discomfited by a Christian prayer, an Islamic prayer, a Jewish prayer, or a Deist invocation of Providence. It seems to me that the people running around with their tails tied in knots are bigots who object to the free expression of any religion other than their own, or to any expression of religion at all. In my opinion, to qualify as an establishment of religion the state would have to mandate that only Christian (or fill in the blank) prayer is acceptable, and conversely it would violate the free expression clause for the state to mandate that no prayer may be offered.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/5/2014 7:28:24 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 7:10:12 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: GotSteel

There are numerous statements by the founding fathers expressing their scathing condemnation of democracies where the majority can legally oppress the minority.

They were pretty clear that they prefered the tyrany of the minority to the tyrany of the majority.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 7:15:02 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Holy cow. For the second time during the obama administration I'm required to actually support an action of the president. I wonder how long till he changes his mind....

Or conversly how long till you change yours?

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 7:22:07 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

It's amusing to see how some people will claim we must embrace and celebrate diversity of every kind, except that of our own culture and heritage.

As a free speech kind of guy though, it isn't amusing at all to me when religious leaders of all stripes are invited to perform an invocation at public meetings, and then told what they are, and are not, allowed to say when they get there.

This is a victory for anyone who treasures our First Amendment, and the freedom of religion it prohibits government from restricting.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with pr... - 5/5/2014 8:26:35 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline 		Why do they have to pray before a town meeting anyway? What's the point?


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 20
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