RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (Full Version)

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Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/20/2014 9:39:08 PM)

quote:

that is a violation of the establishment clause for promoting one faith over another.


Unless you are required to be of that religion to attend the meeting then you have nothing to be concerned about. Next week it could be a Hindus shaman with a prayer wheel if available but not likely because there are not too many Hindus in that meeting. Likely there are Christians and atheists and so sensibly it is likely a Christian prayer leader. What are you specifically concerned about. Are you concerned you might be converted or are you concerned that it is a waste of your valuable time or are you concerned someone sitting by you might be converted?



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/20/2014 9:41:53 PM)

quote:

You are playing fast and loose with the facts, as many of the religious right do,


I did not say a lot of words so which set of words are not facts?



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/20/2014 9:58:46 PM)

quote:

where they complain that their right to pray is being limited


That stereotypes a Christian behavior that I've not seen. Source? Besides, the OP is not about Christians complaining their right to prayer is being limited but the left attempting to stop the practice of Government entities allowing and even inviting prayer before some assembly. I suppose the left will want to next remove the use of the Holy Bible while taking oaths in court or in swearing in public servants. The use of a Bible makes the oath a promise to God, a prayer. So, the Supremes do recognize prayer and God, in whatever form he appears to all Americans, is an integral part of this Country's founding, it's continuance and I hope it's future.



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/20/2014 10:17:14 PM)

quote:

This is outright a violation of the 1st amendment. Only an idiot would arrive at the justice's position. That is how dumb it is. So if there is a public meeting, any religion can open with a prayer, including the Satanists. An since the public meeting can not discriminate, if there is one member of each religion, giving a prayer lasting 30 minutes; That's a REALLY long time before the meeting actually starts.

Oh, an if someone wishes to give their prayer but its not with a religion, they should be allowed. Yeah, and I'm assuming each person is considerate enough to limit their prayer to just 30 seconds. But we all know that is full of shit....


First. It is not a violation of the 1st Amendment, outright or not. Let's actually see what you say we are "violating".

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


This first clause prevents Government from establishing a religion. By "law" it says and it only says that. Some people make stuff up. They say they are doing so by allowing prayer in Government activities. I say they would only be establishing a religion if only those who are a part of that religion are allowed to attend and to serve and vote and work for the Government.

This second clause prevents Government from stopping you from praying, anywhere at anytime.

I hope now you will rest easy that the evil Christians are not trying to take over the Government using the Supremes in some apparent state of "dumb", as you say.



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/20/2014 10:25:12 PM)

quote:

Oh, an if someone wishes to give their prayer but its not with a religion, they should be allowed. Yeah, and I'm assuming each person is considerate enough to limit their prayer to just 30 seconds. But we all know that is full of shit....


That was interesting in it's essential contradictory thought. Prayer to something is a religion by definition. Still, even if you wanted to pray to nothing it would be allowed now without you having to bring a lawyer to the meeting. That last statement...have you been to a meeting and had to listen to several pray and had to listen to each over 30 seconds and obviously this happens to you regularly for you to write about it.



crazyml -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 2:48:50 AM)

That is nonsense.

In fact, I'm struggling to think of a single prayer from the mainstream corpus of prayers that is anti semitic. Could you provide an example please?



thompsonx -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 5:23:39 AM)


ORIGINAL: Arturas

First. It is not a violation of the 1st Amendment, outright or not. Let's actually see what you say we are "violating".

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


This first clause prevents Government from establishing a religion. By "law" it says and it only says that. Some people make stuff up. They say they are doing so by allowing prayer in Government activities.


I say they would only be establishing a religion if only those who are a part of that religion are allowed to attend and to serve and vote and work for the Government.

You would be wrong.
By the "government" starting the meeting with a prayer signifies that the government supports religion. For you to ignore this most sailent point gives lie to your position.

This second clause prevents Government from stopping you from praying, anywhere at anytime.

The courts have subsequently ruled that is not so. For you not to know this should preclude you from being part of any discussion concerning it.

I hope now you will rest easy that the evil Christians are not trying to take over the Government using the Supremes in some apparent state of "dumb", as you say.


Certainly not a state of "dumb" but a state of seeking to subvert the 1st ammendment.



thompsonx -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 5:32:07 AM)


ORIGINAL: Arturas

Besides, the OP is not about Christians complaining their right to prayer is being limited but the left attempting to stop the practice of Government entities allowing and even inviting prayer before some assembly.

Why do you feel it is sane to pray to your imaginary friend to seek guidence for problems that affect me who does not share your fantasy about your imaginary friend?

I suppose the left will want to next remove the use of the Holy Bible while taking oaths in court or in swearing in public servants.

If someone swears an oath to your imaginary friend, that they do not belileve in, how valid is that oath?


The use of a Bible makes the oath a promise to God, a prayer.


There is no god so your bible is nothing but a fuck story and your god is nothing more than your imaginary friend. So an oath taken on your book of fuck stories has no more validity than an oath taken on a stack of playboy magazines.

So, the Supremes do recognize prayer and God,


They also recognized that blacks were inferior to whites[8|]
in whatever form he appears to all Americans, is an integral part of this Country's founding,


That is an unmitigated plate of turds. Please show some validation for that moronic ignorant unsubstantiated opinion?





Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 9:43:46 AM)

quote:

You would be wrong.
By the "government" starting the meeting with a prayer signifies that the government supports religion. For you to ignore this most sailent point gives lie to your position.


It is not illegal to support religion. It is illegal to mandate one by law. Read the amendment again because you are twisting it to support your personal belief and even perhaps fear.

Please don't call me a liar simply because I read the law as it is written. Besides, you hurt my wittle feelings.



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 9:44:46 AM)

quote:

The courts have subsequently ruled that is not so.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Source?



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 9:47:11 AM)

quote:

Certainly not a state of "dumb" but a state of seeking to subvert the 1st ammendment.


How? The amendment is quite clear. What part of the Amendment, quoted, supports your position? Here it is quoted for your convenience.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 9:48:40 AM)

quote:

Why do you feel it is sane to pray to your imaginary friend to seek guidence for problems that affect me who does not share your fantasy about your imaginary friend?


I don't have an imaginary friend that I pray to or otherwise.



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 9:49:44 AM)

quote:

If someone swears an oath to your imaginary friend, that they do not belileve in, how valid is that oath?



I don't have an imaginary friend.



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 9:53:05 AM)

quote:


There is no god so your bible is nothing but a fuck story and your god is nothing more than your imaginary friend. So an oath taken on your book of fuck stories has no more validity than an oath taken on a stack of playboy magazines.


I see you've not read the Bible.



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 10:05:05 AM)

quote:

Me: in whatever form he appears to all Americans, is an integral part of this Country's founding,
You: That is an unmitigated plate of turds. Please show some validation for that moronic ignorant unsubstantiated opinion?


Glad you asked.

The Pilgrims, The Mayflower Compact recognizes God.
http://www.pilgrimhallmuseum.org/mayflower_compact_text.htm

The American Founding Fathers, The Declaration of Independence recognizes God.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Lincoln's Gettysburg Address recognizes God.
http://www.gettysburg.com/bog/address.htm


It appears I am in good company. Perhaps you will read these, the Bible and then consider joining us?



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 10:13:45 AM)

quote:

So, the Supremes do recognize prayer and God,


They also recognized that blacks were inferior to whites


Source?



Musicmystery -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 10:26:01 AM)

Dred Scott



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 10:48:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Dred Scott


In 1846, the Supremes recognized that Dred Scott, a black slave, was indeed a slave and therefore had an inferior status. This is true, is it not? So, they were right. This decision was nullified when there were no more slaves in the U.S.

So, suggesting the Supremes are wrong some or all of the time based on the Dred Scott decision is unsupported.



BamaD -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 10:58:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Dred Scott


In 1946, the Supremes recognized that Dred Scott, a black slave, was indeed a slave and therefore had an inferior status. This is true, is it not? So, they were right. This decision was nullified when there were no more slaves in the U.S.
So, suggesting the Supremes are wrong some or all of the time based on the Dred Scott decision is unsupported. The decision was not Blacks are inferior but that slaves have a legal status inferior to free men.

Dred Scott was one of the worst rulings in the history of the court.
Not because it failed to recognize slaves (not blacks but slaves, leftists always fail to see the difference) but because they didn't stop there and in effect put an end to free states as long as slaves were bought in a slave state.
All of the alleged proof of this prior to the War make this same oversight
they equate slaves with blacks.



Arturas -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (7/21/2014 10:58:50 AM)

BTW, convicts have an inferior legal status still even though they are not inferior as persons. Same thing.



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