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Bait and Switch - 5/7/2014 11:11:47 PM   
TuliTheUnruli


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/24/2013
From: Indiana, USA
Status: offline 		Over the past few months, I had been talking with a lovely guy. He was very gentle, self-controlled, obedient and sweet. He even displayed few limits and offered extreme acts of submission. He seemed like all you could ever want in a servant. As we talked this week, and he finally agreed to visit me, the conversation turned; he suddenly revealed himself as dominant in a creepy and almost menacing way. It seemed like some foreign entity had taken over my friend: He arrogantly and persistently told me that I was really submissive, that I would not refuse him, and that we would enjoy dominating and caring for me. It only made me want to kick his ass.

It isn't my fault I know. People are liars on the internet, but we shared video time and phone calls and he seemed so genuine. I just can't help feeling foolish for being drawn in.

Has this happened to you before? Any suggestions on how I could notice these tactics and avoid such men in future?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/7/2014 11:42:27 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, alas, I think we've all been. Block 'em and mock 'em, so you're in the right place to begrudge the wasted hours and effort.

I've found the best way to find a hidden switch, bad bottom or do-me dom is to give them specific vanilla tasks including written homework; good subs are happy to do them, whatever they are, and bad dogs balk, delay and find excuses not to.

Good luck to us all!



_____________________________

"Then I did the simplest thing in the world. I leaned down... and kissed him. And the world cracked open." - Agnes de Mille

(in reply to TuliTheUnruli)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 12:21:07 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		First off, OP; let me welcome you to the forum side of CollarMe, known as CollarChat. I hope you'll find lots of cool topics in which you can sink your teeth.

It is true that the inter-webz are full of liars, manipulators, and all sorts of game-players. It sucks but it's just a fact of life.

How to avoid them? Well, unfortunately, some of them are so well practiced that that is a difficult, if not insurmountable, task.

Many times, we have male dominants that come here and post essentially the same thing you have and I've seen the typical female response. I'm sure someone will be along to give it to you shortly but, I'll give you a preview. It will go something like: Whining about fakes is not very domly behavior.

There will always be these types of people; sometimes they're easy to spot and sometimes they're not. You're dominant. Make sure the relationship goes at your pace, not at theirs.

The only practical "solution" I can give you is to set a definitive time window for any potentials. If they're not willing to sit down for coffee within X number of days (weeks, months, whatever), cease communication.

It won't stop the fools but it will minimize your wasted time.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Tantriqu)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 12:58:44 AM   
NiceButMeanGirl


Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I've also run into the bait & switch. It's irritating, yes, but don't let it get you down. Cut 'em off at the knees and, just remember, never let 'em see you get pissed, they gain the upper hand that way. Block & Delete are your best friends in situations like this.

NBMG

_____________________________

I'm now SweetlySadistic1 on CollarSpace. NBMG is an old profile, please see my new one.


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 2:05:08 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		We've all made mistakes, but what matters is that we learn from them. This might seem like a simple rule, but it's one that you and I, or any other woman should stick to without fail. Take the same precautions you would take meeting a vanilla man on a blind date that you would with any other man.

You had to learn the hard way that just because a man calls himself a submissive, this doesn't make him a safe bet. In fact, you let your guard down all the more. Not your fault, and you're lucky you didn't become just another statistic.

Any sort of on-line interactions you have with somebody isn't real. They may seem real, but you're both still operating in the realm of fantasy, not reality.
Test him every step of the way. Before meeting, gather as much personal/biographical info about him as you reasonably can and give out as little of your own as possible.
He may be lying through his teeth, but if he tells enough lies, he's bound to trip himself up on at least a couple of them. Watch for hesitations and evasiveness of answers. Don't overlook any inconsistencies.

Absolutely always meet in a public place. Have your own independent mode of transportation. Do not leave to go to a second location. That can wait until you actually start dating.
Never give out your real full name or your exact address, or place of employment prior to knowing this is someone with whom you want to embark on a real-time D/s relationship.
Abstain from drinking any alcohol or taking any substance which could impair your judgment on your intro meeting date. That can also wait.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TuliTheUnruli

He even displayed few limits and offered extreme acts of submission.


This bothers me for a number of reasons, the most germane of which are:
1. Possible FemDom-porn contamination as the cause of this imitated and exaggerated behavior
2. Few to no limits means either he is an inexperienced vanilla fantasist, or he considers himself a slave. If the latter, then he should be able to provide you with a reference.
3. He's learned how to fake it until he makes it, or feels confident in his ability to "play" Dommes. I called one of those out two days ago, and suddenly his daily messages ceased abruptly. He knew he'd been called out.
4. Treating you respectfully, being attentive and accommodating to a lady he is courting does not mean you are his Mistress. Any gentleman should conduct himself in this fashion, which means
5. Beware of anyone who wants you to Insta-Domme him or jump into an instant D/s dynamic with a woman he's never met. Chances are what he wants is BDSM Topping play and not a committed D/s relationship as your sub.
6. Don't let Domme fever get the best of you prematurely. Don't allow yourself to think with your c*nt.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to TuliTheUnruli)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 5:46:15 AM   
MzArianaPA


Posts: 39
Joined: 11/24/2013
Status: offline
quote:


The only practical "solution" I can give you is to set a definitive time window for any potentials. If they're not willing to sit down for coffee within X number of days (weeks, months, whatever), cease communication.

It won't stop the fools but it will minimize your wasted time.




This.

Back when I was meeting potentials from online, I had a fairly quick timeline from first contact to meet. Two weeks of regularly exchanged emails. Phone call at that point, with me calling from my blocked number. Meet for coffee (public place) OR at a local munch within 2 weeks of first phone call. Never any overtly sexual discussion or BDSM-related "activities".

I was upfront about the timeline and how I expected things to progress, including the fact that the "getting to know you" stage would not be skipped - it just moved to face to face reasonably quickly because I think it's far better to get to know someone sitting across from you rather than on a computer screen.

My reasoning is simple. I can't really know if I click with someone until I meet them, and I'm not willing to waste a lot of time going back and forth online with those that have no intention/balls to get out and meet. This is what I do, this is who I am. The 'net might be a place to make connections but it's not where I live a fantasy life.

IF someone is serious about finding someone for a relationship, the above should NOT be too difficult to achieve. One would think.

Now, how many actually made that cut? Not many. Making them send regular but not sexually oriented emails is too hard for most. Waiting 2 weeks to talk on the phone is too hard for most. Talking on the phone after 2 weeks of emails is too hard for most. Meeting face to face for coffee is too hard for most. Spending the time to actually get to know me as a person and letting me know them as a person is too hard for most.

See where I'm going with this?

Mind you, I'm in a relationship with one who came through this with flying colors.


(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 9:07:14 AM   
FriendlyMuppet


Posts: 171
Joined: 11/16/2010
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		It's stories like these that bother me a lot because I know I'm sincere and quite serious about wanting to be a servant submissive who is there for the lady who decides to take control of him. These stories remind me that so many people are playing games, and thus, they make it that much more difficult for someone like me to actually find someone because each woman burned is another one is less trusting of the next person (me) who comes along. And quite often that means setting up roadblocks rather than invites, and as a result, people who don't find what they're seeking because someone decided to be a moron and try to get some stupid "win" out of a no win situation.

_____________________________

My Novels:
The Cell's Door: http://amzn.to/19I6VA1
Forced to Serve: http://amzn.to/108DByv

(in reply to MzArianaPA)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 9:50:40 AM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline 		~FRing it~

I'm sorry you had to experience this, OP. It sucks, but it's better you found out now about this guy rather than later on. In a way, this was a good thing...even though it makes you feel bad right now.

Unfortunately people can sometimes be whatever they want to be on the Internet. For the future, my best advice is to keep everything very vanilla. I tend to keep any kink discussion to a bare ass minimum...just enough to get an idea of compatibility is pretty much. Both to prevent them from figuring out what to say that they think I might want to hear and to provide the wank fodder seekers an absolutely boring experience. I don't do video chats and the phone calls I do use are very tame as well. I meet sooner rather than investing a lot of time and energy into online getting to know you type stuff. Also ask open ended, rather than direct yes-no type questions. You get more of a better picture of who they might be by not leading them in any one direction. People will tell you what you need to hear or they will take enough rope to hang themselves with (not literally).

Best piece of advice for you is to not kick yourself for this, but rather look back over it and take the knowledge you gain from it with you into future endeavors.

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 5/8/2014 10:01:51 AM >

(in reply to FriendlyMuppet)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 4:33:36 PM   
TuliTheUnruli


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/24/2013
From: Indiana, USA
Status: offline 		Thank You to everyone for your replies and support. I've already added many of those recommendations to my profile.

It's easy to get bored quickly with overly guarded men or ones that submit right away. I need truthful, open man who will obey me and not just any woman. And even though I'm very sexual and want compatibility, I get tired of sharing fantasies when I know I can't touch someone. Frustrates me so much.

I won't let one loser's trick take my confidence. Xox - Tuli.


(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 4:36:23 PM   
Sexyladydee


Posts: 60
Joined: 9/3/2009
Status: offline 		It's unfortunate that so many have so much time to waste. I too have been catching a few pretend to be subs on this site. It just goes with the territory. But I tend to do the reverse and often drag out the meetings for a few weeks. I miss phone calls and am not online all the time. A true sub will roll with it but a Dom or a Top's true nature will surface.

It's very important to meet in a safe and open place. I have found the local groups giving munches in my area. If you meet them at hotels make sure someone knows where you're going and contact them when you arrive and leave. It's the same policy I had with my vanilla girlfriends when they went off with new guys. My motto continues to be BETTER SAFE!




I'm not selfish, just stubborn and usually right. LadyDee

(in reply to SeekingTrinity)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/8/2014 8:18:25 PM   
bowedB4Women


Posts: 45
Joined: 2/7/2014
Status: offline 		Just wow, sounds like.a real deal.psychopath.

_____________________________

"He needed the hand on his shoulder, the kiss to his temple and the hot, breath of his Mistress over his face."Casey K. Cox

(in reply to Sexyladydee)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/10/2014 2:02:39 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TuliTheUnruli

I've already added many of those recommendations to my profile.



Excellent move! Now, if only your profile were visible ...







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to TuliTheUnruli)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Bait and Switch - 5/14/2014 6:14:01 AM   
pleasemsbliss


Posts: 18
Joined: 8/23/2013
Status: offline 		Good luck!
Nothing beats meeting in person. ESPECIALLY on a site like this. You simply CANNOT tell. A few months back I got along well with someone and fast forward a few months, he was actually married, 10 years older, 60 lb heavier than the photo he sent me, etc…you just NEVER know until you meet. I am gulty of extensive emailing and I know we do it because there is a certain comfort to it. But beyond the basics only an in-person meeting can tell. Never make assumptions based on online communications. It can be very deceiving.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Bait and Switch - 7/14/2014 12:37:43 PM   
MistressRage


Posts: 138
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline 		@OP I'm thinking that one or more of the following was what's going on.

1) He didn't want to visit so he acted like a creep in order to make you not want to see him.

2) He wanted you to get ultra-dominant and punish him for being a big giant douchebag

3) He really is a crazy motherfucker.

_____________________________

Mistress Rage
~outRAGEous~

I don't always return to a thread. It's usually best to message your replies directly to me.

(in reply to TuliTheUnruli)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Bait and Switch - 7/15/2014 11:22:12 AM   
SpyUnderCover


Posts: 208
Joined: 6/21/2010
Status: offline 		I can honestly say this has never happened to me. The male doms I've talked to who want to "try submitting" have generally been upfront about where they're coming from.

You got a lot of good advice here. I especially like FieryOpal's point that if asked enough questions, a liar will trip himself up sooner or later. Some questions I like to ask are, "How long have you known you were submissive? What event or situation (from childhood or adulthood) occurred that made you realize it?" "How many dommes have you been involved with? What were those interactions like for you?" "What do you like about submitting? What needs do you get met by submission?" If I had any doubts at all, I'd ask the man outright, "Do you have any interest in or experience being a dominant/top?"

As with all life lessons, don't beat yourself up for it. You live and learn. There are some sincere subs out there. You'll find them if you persevere.

Good luck!
Spy


(in reply to MistressRage)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Bait and Switch - 7/16/2014 12:33:50 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpyUnderCover

I can honestly say this has never happened to me. The male doms I've talked to who want to "try submitting" have generally been upfront about where they're coming from.

Speaking just from personal experience, my issue has not been lack of upfrontness so much as I'm not in the switch transition business. (Or any business, for that matter, when it comes to a play partner or any other kind of partner)
Not saying that you or any other Domme is who interacts with Doms who want bottoming experiences.
I have a hard-enough time dealing with non-subs as it is, whether on line or IRT. Many are not intentionally being misleading, but deep-down they have no intention of relinquishing control, being either fantasy-driven or fueled by lust.

quote:

Some questions I like to ask are, "How long have you known you were submissive? What event or situation (from childhood or adulthood) occurred that made you realize it?" "How many dommes have you been involved with? What were those interactions like for you?" "What do you like about submitting? What needs do you get met by submission?" If I had any doubts at all, I'd ask the man outright, "Do you have any interest in or experience being a dominant/top?"

The question about that pivotal moment or earliest (childhood) experience is key in ascertaining whether the man has a submissive nature at heart. Unless he has omitted disclosing an event which he might think is irrelevant (deriving pleasure from getting disciplined by a babysitter or female relative, for example), I have found that the younger the age of the experience, the more telling this memory imprint is in terms of his sexuality. By the time a man has had an experimental girlfriend who wanted to tie him to the bed, his kink factor has gone from a D/s dynamic to BDSM play. This may be acceptable to others who are primarily seeking BDSM play themselves, but not for me.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to SpyUnderCover)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Bait and Switch - 7/17/2014 11:04:29 PM   
CougarRick


Posts: 288
Joined: 5/5/2012
Status: offline
quote:


He was very gentle, self-controlled, obedient and sweet.
He even displayed few limits and offered extreme acts of submission.
He seemed like all you could ever want in a servant.




Those three lines to me are warning flags. Nobody I have ever met in real life measured up to the people I have met on the internet. Most people I have met on the net were perfect.

(in reply to TuliTheUnruli)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Bait and Switch - 7/18/2014 1:08:08 AM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpyUnderCover

I can honestly say this has never happened to me. The male doms I've talked to who want to "try submitting" have generally been upfront about where they're coming from.

You got a lot of good advice here. I especially like FieryOpal's point that if asked enough questions, a liar will trip himself up sooner or later. Some questions I like to ask are, "How long have you known you were submissive? What event or situation (from childhood or adulthood) occurred that made you realize it?" "How many dommes have you been involved with? What were those interactions like for you?" "What do you like about submitting? What needs do you get met by submission?" If I had any doubts at all, I'd ask the man outright, "Do you have any interest in or experience being a dominant/top?"

As with all life lessons, don't beat yourself up for it. You live and learn. There are some sincere subs out there. You'll find them if you persevere.

Good luck!
Spy




Liars often trip themselves up even much quicker. Once a woman told me she was a 3rd year law student. But she was vague. What's your favorite course: They're all OK. No real favorite. So at one point I found a way to slip a relatively obscure legal term - stare decisis (submission :) to precedent) in the conversation, not as a legal term. So what would a real law student have done? Either made an intelligent comment about it -- it's a 1st year Constitutional Law term-- or expressed surprise that I knew what it was, since I'm not a lawyer. Instead, nothing, as though it wasn't there. A few more like that -- and it was obvious she was a fraud. Find something the person claims to be expert of knowledgeable about which you happen to really know. Then just ask a dumb question and see how they respond. Also see if they take a long time to respond, strongly suggesting google :) You can probably catch 99% of liars this way.

Sometimes, though, you don't have to because they ask for Western Union first.


_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to SpyUnderCover)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Bait and Switch - 7/18/2014 4:37:15 AM   
DaCat6


Posts: 25
Joined: 6/12/2014
Status: offline 		I have never had this happen to me but OP, your post makes me highly suspicious.

What you wrote made me think of one guy I know on this site. The man is hugely submissive and when he's sober, he's actually a lovely chap but he's a drinker and when he gets drunk he goes on this dominant rampage. This man believes that most of the Dommes on here aren't really dominant. He has told me on numerous occasions that he catches these Dommes out by pretending to be a switch with a strong dominant nature and that when he does this, he usually finds out who they really are. I know he does this when he's drunk because stupidly, he's tried this on me after one too many bevies, even though we are just friends.

Your profile is hidden so I can't see what country you live in. This particular man is English.

(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Bait and Switch - 8/10/2014 2:19:52 AM   
missbrownjinx


Posts: 29
Joined: 6/11/2014
Status: offline 		This is a topic I touched on here on the forums a couple of times, one in a thread I started re: so-called doms contacting me professing themselves to be submissive, and also with a newbie domme who was asking if any of us had an experience where a sub 'switched' in the middle of a session and lashed out at the domme.

Scary situations, but for advice, I agree with all of Fiery Opal's post. I am naturally cautious and especially when doing pro-domination, I follow all the rules that regular "sex workers" do. And let's not kid ourselves, professional domination is sex work. Anyway, I digress.

Precautions such as not meeting at a person's home, notifying someone where you will be and what time to expect you - up to and including letting the so-called sub know that you have left their real name and address with someone in case of emergency - usually stops shenanigans before they start.

I can't think of anything worse than the situation you described. Truly a nightmare scenario. This however is not your fault and there isn't much you could have done to avoid it. Thankfully he showed his true colors before he came to visit you, but I hope you had been planning on taking precautions anyway. I would never allow a new sub into my home for example. If he is visiting your city, meeting on neutral ground and 'sessioning' in his hotel room is perfectly fine. Hotels lower the risk of someone acting up, with the likelihood of cameras, observant staff, not to mention the credit card that may be used to pay can all be traced back to the owner/potential perp. Even so, NO METHOD IS FOOLPROOF.

I consider my paranoia (a result of being a New Yorker and also watching too many Law and Order:SVU episodes) to be perfectly healthy. Better to be overly cautious then end up as one of Benson's cases.

(in reply to DaCat6)
Profile   Post #: 20
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