Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student

Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 3:18:12 PM)
Teenagers call it garage hopping. The goal was to sneak into an open garage, steal some beer or other items and slip away into the night. It was dumb and clearly illegal. It was not supposed to be deadly. Inside the house, motion sensors alerted Markus Kaarma, 29, to an intruder’s presence..... ....he grabbed a shotgun from the dining room and rushed outside...... ....He aimed into the garage and, according to court documents, fired four blasts into the dark..... Mr. Dede’s (a 17-year-old exchange student from Germany named Diren Dede ) body crumpled to the floor. --------- I can only shake my head in dismay......

jlf1961 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 3:52:21 PM)
And according to reports, the shooter might have been high at the time. I noticed a 93 year old woman shot and killed by cops did not make the cut.

PeonForHer -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 3:54:27 PM)
This is a really astonishing story, cloudboy. The USA is well known for supporting the principles of 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness', so I'm utterly amazed that anyone would want to trash those three principles so easily by shooting around randomly in the dark. However, I feel certain that some young kid who's essentially harmless getting shot dead is a very rare event in the USA.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 3:57:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer ...However, I feel certain that some young kid who's essentially harmless getting shot dead is a very rare event in the USA. Did you forget your super-sarcasm font Peon?? [:D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 3:58:46 PM)
It would be utterly unrecognisable in this forum, FD. No point.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:01:00 PM)
Yeah, I guess [8\|] Does a day ever go by where we don't hear of such stupidity in the US?? And they wonder why most of the civilised world has very strict gun laws!!

LoneStaBlues -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:03:33 PM)
That exchange student who broke into someone's home could have as easily been a doped up thief who would have killed anyone without any remorse.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:08:31 PM)
Could also have been a couple of cops coming to check on a break-in reported by a passer-by I guess. It was neither of these scenarios though, was it ?

PeonForHer -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:11:54 PM)
There you go, FD. LoneStaBlues has provided a neat picture of the wavelength that people are on out there. The context of threat and danger that they're used to just isn't part of our experience here in Western Europe. Myself, if I were that kid's dad, I wouldn't have let my son go out there in the first place, frankly.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:14:36 PM)
Nope. Neither would I. But we hear so much of shoddy (not necessarily bad) parents that think this is Ok.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:15:36 PM)
If I was that kids dad, I might seriously be thinking of going out there myself round about now.

PeonForHer -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 If I was that kids dad, I might seriously be thinking of going out there myself round about now. Fuck it, Dvr. It would only add to my misery if I were his dad. I'd expect to come up against a host of fuckwitted psychos who'll bend my ears through 360 degrees about how my kid 'could' have been a gangbanger or a killer of some other sort. That's their nasty little world, not mine. I'd have no interest in hearing about just how vital to "Freedom And The American Way" are guns to the fucked up, fruitcake, primitive cretins who'd support the moron who shot this kid.

igor2003 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:35:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer There you go, FD. LoneStaBlues has provided a neat picture of the wavelength that people are on out there. The context of threat and danger that they're used to just isn't part of our experience here in Western Europe. Myself, if I were that kid's dad, I wouldn't have let my son go out there in the first place, frankly. If I were that kid's dad I'd be wishing I had taken more time to teach my son that going, uninvited, into someone's home and committing a criminal act can have dire and unexpected consequences. BOTH people were stupid. Now, one is dead, the other facing charges. The kid is every bit as responsible as the guy that pulled the trigger. But in reading the responses so far it would seem that the anti-gun people want to ignore that fact. Just remember, the kid wouldn't be dead if he had not been breaking the law in the first place.

Dvr22999874 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:44:39 PM)
That's one way to empty the jails and save the economy..................Kill everybody who commits a crime. Not trials; no reports to file. Peon, I was brought up in a really nice, quiet area where there was no crime or violence..............I am sure you know the Whitechapel, Aldgate, Bethnal Green areas of London ??? I served in a rather noisy area of the military and since coming to Australia, have never picked up a weapon except to shoot (non-human) vermin. I see a gun as a beautifully made piece of machinery but like you, I am baffled by the idea that simply owning one gives you the right to take a life. Even coming from my background, that seems a little weird, to say the least. Fucked up WOULD be a much better way of putting it.

tj444 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 4:59:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Teenagers call it garage hopping. I didn't realize that there was a name for this.. however, otoh, this guy was 29, not a teenager and at that age you should have a pretty good idea how things work.. not to mention, the violence in America is no secret to the rest of the world.. here if you walk up someone's drive/walk for any legit reason you take a great risk (if its the home of a nutbar).. Here just this last week a nutbar came out shooting in the middle of the afternoon at tree trimmers hired by the electric company.. this particular nutbar was a precinct constable no less.. [8\|] but that said.. imo this was definitely a trap, the open garage and purse as bait.. he put in cameras.. the shooter can deny all he wants but it was a trap.. just like another similar case, a guy waited in his basement in the dark and shot 2 young people, yes they were druggies and broke in there before, but the guy had a tarp on the floor waiting for them, he shot the young male 4 times that came down the stairs first, dragged his body away on the tarp (just like in the movies) and then waited, when the girl came down the stairs he shot her too multiple times.. he audio recorded the event.. He sat in wait for them, in the dark, he parked his vehicle on another street so the house would look no one was home.. He has been found guilty of murder, at least..

Politesub53 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 5:05:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer It would be utterly unrecognisable in this forum, FD. No point. Not by your compatriots mon ami. [8D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 5:07:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer There you go, FD. LoneStaBlues has provided a neat picture of the wavelength that people are on out there. The context of threat and danger that they're used to just isn't part of our experience here in Western Europe. Myself, if I were that kid's dad, I wouldn't have let my son go out there in the first place, frankly. If I were that kid's dad I'd be wishing I had taken more time to teach my son that going, uninvited, into someone's home and committing a criminal act can have dire and unexpected consequences. BOTH people were stupid. Now, one is dead, the other facing charges. The kid is every bit as responsible as the guy that pulled the trigger. But in reading the responses so far it would seem that the anti-gun people want to ignore that fact. Just remember, the kid wouldn't be dead if he had not been breaking the law in the first place. It's a different world, Igor. It really is. People over here in Europe do silly things occasionally, like they probably do everywhere. But we older adults don't feel the need to inspire terror in them for being berks that they are because berks here so rarely get killed for being berks. That's your world, Igor. I can't be bothered to get into an argument about whether or not it's somehow better in the USA because everyone has this freedom to kill and I sure as hell have no interest in entertaining the bleating and whining from certain Americans here about how we Europeans look down on them. All I can say is that I want no part of that sort of world, ever, because I find it disgusting.

KYsissy -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 5:11:24 PM)
A pump shotgun is supposed to be a great home defense weapon. No words needed. Just rack the slide once chambering a round and that unmistakeable sound will freeze a burglar in his tracks or make him beat feet. Sad this tactic wasnt used. It was the friggin garage for chrissake. I would rather lose some stuff than kill somone.

PeonForHer -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 5:14:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874 I am sure you know the Whitechapel, Aldgate, Bethnal Green areas of London ??? I do - I lived there. I went to what was then the City of London Polytechnic in Aldgate and lived in a prefab in Bethnal Green, just round the corner from the Watney's brewery. Small world!

tj444 -> RE: Senseless Gun Violence -- Fearful Homeowner Kills Unarmed German Exchange Student (5/8/2014 5:26:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer It's a different world, Igor. It really is. People over here in Europe do silly things occasionally, like they probably do everywhere. But we older adults don't feel the need to inspire terror in them for being berks that they are because berks here so rarely get killed for being berks. That's your world, Igor. I can't be bothered to get into an argument about whether or not it's somehow better in the USA because everyone has this freedom to kill and I sure as hell have no interest in entertaining the bleating and whining from certain Americans here about how we Europeans look down on them. All I can say is that I want no part of that sort of world, ever, because I find it disgusting. Peon.. here in the USA, by the time young people reach the age of 23, 30% have already been convicted of a crime.. They take their law & order very seriously here.. I find that a startling stat, since once young people have that criminal record due to being a dumb kid or doing drugs, it means they are shut out in many respects of society and most likely will be doomed to low income jobs the rest of their lives.. What exactly does that mean for this country's economic health in the decades ahead?

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