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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/16/2014 5:18:03 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Numerous laws like this designed to prevent small enterprises from breaking into a lucrative field.
Try to buy a tesla in texas.
Try to buy rabies vacine.
Some of this protective legislation is rational...like not allowing electricians and surgeons to practice thier trades without proper certification.

yes, I know all that & I don't have a problem with rational laws..

Do you think it is rational to outlaw tesla cars in texas?



but you should not get a jail term for selling the same stuff Walmart has on their shelves and sells.. the only difference in this example is that the user is provided a place to diy which is in the mall or spa rather than in their own home.. it makes no sense to me..


Nor me

it is also over-criminalization, which is becoming all too common with laws in this country...

Do you have a specific case in mind or is this just a general rant?


and yes, imo people being told they cant do this or that or whatever cuz of some law, or restrictions then yah, its gonna f'n stifle creativity and the creation of new businesses..


How bout texting while driving?

and you get a workforce and population that needs to be told every simple thing,



When we collectively chose to utilize the assembly line and abandon craftsmanship as a means to higher productivity there was no need to have "craftsman" only someoe who could put this bolt in that nut.

they no longer can think for themselves and need warnings on cups of coffee to know that its hot...

That is a rather unfair characterization of that incident. You should know by now that the coffee thing was micky d's fault and the subsequent "You can't tell me what to do" suits they had to pay off on also. Micky d had numerous cusomer complaints before the law suit. If you are in a service business wouldn't it make sense to give the customer what they want?

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/16/2014 5:49:23 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren

But reading the responses I was saddened, all these middle america types moaning "oh, you can't do that, would cost too much, would be too difficult too dangerous", sounded like a group of old people complaining about their lumbago and sciatica. What the fuck happened? Sure, it is an outrageous dream, but what is wrong with that? What is wrong with thinking about it, designing it, even if one foot of track is never laid?




Thank you for re-posting this, Zonie.

What the person you're quoting doesn't seem to realize is that lately, whenever someone comes up with a thought that's "outside the box", they're screamed down and called all kinds of horrid names.

It's the general attitude in this country that causes the lack of new and independent thought. It's the damned-near "pitchforks and torches" behavior whenever anyone dares to propose an idea that seems to be coloring a little outside the lines. Don't believe me? Go check some of the global warming news/threads.

You ever notice how the arsonist complains about the heat?







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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/16/2014 6:17:44 PM   
cloudboy


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Status: offline
The person he's quoting is well informed and backs up a point with information. When I contrast that, with say your post here - a fruit cake post devoid of information yet full of unsubstantiated inference -- I see something more troubling than FIDOs empty jargon.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/17/2014 9:47:38 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Numerous laws like this designed to prevent small enterprises from breaking into a lucrative field.
Try to buy a tesla in texas.
Try to buy rabies vacine.
Some of this protective legislation is rational...like not allowing electricians and surgeons to practice thier trades without proper certification.

yes, I know all that & I don't have a problem with rational laws..

Do you think it is rational to outlaw tesla cars in texas?



but you should not get a jail term for selling the same stuff Walmart has on their shelves and sells.. the only difference in this example is that the user is provided a place to diy which is in the mall or spa rather than in their own home.. it makes no sense to me..


Nor me

it is also over-criminalization, which is becoming all too common with laws in this country...

Do you have a specific case in mind or is this just a general rant?


and yes, imo people being told they cant do this or that or whatever cuz of some law, or restrictions then yah, its gonna f'n stifle creativity and the creation of new businesses..


How bout texting while driving?

and you get a workforce and population that needs to be told every simple thing,



When we collectively chose to utilize the assembly line and abandon craftsmanship as a means to higher productivity there was no need to have "craftsman" only someoe who could put this bolt in that nut.

they no longer can think for themselves and need warnings on cups of coffee to know that its hot...

That is a rather unfair characterization of that incident. You should know by now that the coffee thing was micky d's fault and the subsequent "You can't tell me what to do" suits they had to pay off on also. Micky d had numerous cusomer complaints before the law suit. If you are in a service business wouldn't it make sense to give the customer what they want?


yes, I know all that & I don't have a problem with rational laws..

sure, over-criminalization such as the "Paypal 14" for instance.. they were over-charged with possibly from 15 years to 30 years in jail and then yet they are allowed to plea out with no jail time at all, just probation.. Paypal has contradicted itself on the "damage" it suffered, they claimed millions of dollars lost yet actual evidence and their own other statements show the denial of service attack barely slowed down customers ability to use Paypal, the delay was unperceptible.. so why were only 14 people charged (when there were at least 1000 people did it)? and why were those charged with extreme jail sentences for something (which was actually free speech) that did no real damage?

The same sorta thing with people downloading illegal music, etc.. always over charging.. same thing with anyone growing pot too (Federal charges are always over-charged).. I would also say forfeiture is included in that category even if where are no charges or arrests, with that you are presumed guilty and need to hire a lawyer to get your money/assets back by proving you are innocent.. its not hard to find examples.

Surely you know over-criminalization is alive and well here in the US, don't you?

Too often workers use the "those are the rules" line to avoid having to think or use commonsense or find a way that something can work.. Its just easier to tell someone that they are screwed and there is nothing they can do.. And yeah, only the rich can afford to hire craftsmen/women now..

as far as McDs goes, there are plenty of other similar examples.. like a warning/instructions to remove the plastic wrap from a frozen pizza before baking.. there, is that example better?...

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/17/2014 4:45:15 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

More new businesses are dying than starting.

Interesting article ... here:


Bottom line: excess government regulation favors large business over small.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2014/05/08/Overregulation-Killing-America-s-Can-Do-Spirit


It's following the standard fear in a deep recession: Same as the folks who ain't buying real estate.

As Warren says, buy when there's blood in the streets.

(It's an opportunity....one that can only be seen best {by most} with hindsight).

Time to buy is my edict.

Time to start a new business.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/17/2014 8:57:35 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


As Warren says, buy when there's blood in the streets.


.. Warren wasn't the first to say that, it has been around since the 1800s.. its just contrarian thinking..

but if you want to take that literally, Syria would be a "buy" right now.. and so would sinkhole areas in Florida... sometimes there is no comeback market, think tulip bulbs? just sayin'

and there is another saying.. "the trend is your friend".. (until its not)..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 2:56:01 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You've got it. Out of the 1000's of regulations...by far, most are by the big assoc. funded (passed) by big business to kill their competition.

A Dr. in New England, I forget exactly where, offered patients what one could as accurately as possible, call...a service agreement.

The patient signs up, pays so much a month according to an in depth physical and the Dr. takes care of you for everything but tests by specialists and surgeries.

The courts shot it down without a regulation but saying [it] was too similar to offering and unlicensed security. Bullshit ruling but the hospitals and their Drs, win.

You just gotta love the 'free market.' [sic]

Of course you forgot where because it is a story that gets passed around because it is made up. It is untrue. Doctors do it all the time.

Well there was a court case sited. I'll look for it. But I will say that I have never been offered such an agreement and don't know anybody that has been offered such an agreement.

It's called concierge medicine and it is quite common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concierge_medicine

Good link but as it read, still a fairly new practice and used by at most...5000 doctors. That is a very small fraction of 600,000 plus primary care Drs. in the US.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/18/2014 2:57:36 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 7:50:38 AM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


As Warren says, buy when there's blood in the streets.


.. Warren wasn't the first to say that, it has been around since the 1800s.. its just contrarian thinking..

but if you want to take that literally, Syria would be a "buy" right now.. and so would sinkhole areas in Florida... sometimes there is no comeback market, think tulip bulbs? just sayin'

and there is another saying.. "the trend is your friend".. (until its not)..


Well said.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 8:57:42 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		No, it's not.

"Contrarian thinking" in itself isn't useful--it's value investing when others are abandoning the value without sufficient justification that Buffet's talking about.

Syria would not be a "buy," because it's unstable. Being the first to recognize the return of stability before the market does would be value investing.

Same with Florida sinkholes -- where's the value? If there's value there others are missing, only then is "contrarian" a good idea.

Agreed that trend investing is risky -- because the underlying value isn't there relative to the price the market begins to command.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 9:12:03 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You've got it. Out of the 1000's of regulations...by far, most are by the big assoc. funded (passed) by big business to kill their competition.

A Dr. in New England, I forget exactly where, offered patients what one could as accurately as possible, call...a service agreement.

The patient signs up, pays so much a month according to an in depth physical and the Dr. takes care of you for everything but tests by specialists and surgeries.

The courts shot it down without a regulation but saying [it] was too similar to offering and unlicensed security. Bullshit ruling but the hospitals and their Drs, win.

You just gotta love the 'free market.' [sic]

Of course you forgot where because it is a story that gets passed around because it is made up. It is untrue. Doctors do it all the time.

Well there was a court case sited. I'll look for it. But I will say that I have never been offered such an agreement and don't know anybody that has been offered such an agreement.

It's called concierge medicine and it is quite common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concierge_medicine

Good link but as it read, still a fairly new practice and used by at most...5000 doctors. That is a very small fraction of 600,000 plus primary care Drs. in the US.

Not outlawed. Not forbidden. Not stopped by the courts. Fairly common as I said.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 9:38:39 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Not "fairly common."

In the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003, the Congress directed the GAO to study concierge care and its impact on Medicare patients. The GAO report, published in 2005, concluded that the “small number of concierge physicians makes it unlikely that the approach has contributed to widespread access problems.”

From your own link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concierge_medicine

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 10:38:05 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Not "fairly common."

In the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003, the Congress directed the GAO to study concierge care and its impact on Medicare patients. The GAO report, published in 2005, concluded that the “small number of concierge physicians makes it unlikely that the approach has contributed to widespread access problems.”

From your own link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concierge_medicine

That is 11 years ago. You might want to get more recent figures.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 10:39:13 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		So might you. It's your link. What you got?

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 10:48:23 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-29/is-concierge-medicine-the-future-of-health-care

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 11:05:31 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		A year later, there are 5,500 concierge doctors -- http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303471004579165470633112630

That's still a small percentage of primary care doctors.
http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/primary-care-physicians-by-field/

Speculation that it will increase depends on foregoing insurance to pay monthly fees. Will it happen? Remains to be seen whether this is a growing market or a market that's reaching it's saturation. If it did grow, with many doctors opting out of insurance, Congress would surely step in to adjust insurance models.

If we take just Internal Medicine and Family Practice (leaving out pediatrics and Obs/Gyn), then that's 1.9% of doctors (with them included, that's 1.38%). So again, hardly "fairly common," though an interesting development.


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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 11:10:31 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Not outlawed. Not forbidden. Not stopped by the courts. Fairly common as I said.

Since when does legal mean common?

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Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 1:26:40 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		We're in the process of purchasing our 3rd house. After immigration reform -- the economy and housing market should get a much needed jolt.

The biggest most depressing "can't do" force in the USA is the Republican House. Voters need to kick the tea party to the curb first before anything good can really get underway.


< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/18/2014 1:28:05 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 2:02:41 PM   
graven42


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/10/2011
Status: offline 		regarding the train idea.. Here is one that would probably work but would never be built..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 3:23:32 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

No, it's not.

"Contrarian thinking" in itself isn't useful--it's value investing when others are abandoning the value without sufficient justification that Buffet's talking about.

Syria would not be a "buy," because it's unstable. Being the first to recognize the return of stability before the market does would be value investing.

Or geting a sweet military hardware contract

Same with Florida sinkholes -- where's the value? If there's value there others are missing, only then is "contrarian" a good idea.

I want the sinkhole with all of those corvettes in it....


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 3:51:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Not outlawed. Not forbidden. Not stopped by the courts. Fairly common as I said.

Since when does legal mean common?

When there are such practices in most decent sized communities which there are.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 40
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