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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 8:40:30 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: njlauren



Seriously, it shouldn't be the Chinese proposing something like that, we should be, even if we know it is a pipe dream, dreaming is part of who we should be.


Amen to this!!


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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/18/2014 8:50:52 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Do you think it is rational to outlaw tesla cars in texas?


You do realize that this isn't true, right? Tesla cars aren't illegal in Texas. It's only Tesla's direct sales model that's illegal. You can't buy a Tesla in Texas, but there's nothing stopping you from buying one a state over and registering it in Texas.

That being said, I don't agree with this law. I see no real problem with a factory selling direct to it's customers and skipping the middleman. The one argument I can find against it, that it's to protect consumers from some fly-by-night car manufacturer selling direct and then declaring bankruptcy, to be pretty slim.

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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/19/2014 10:18:06 AM   
MrRodgers


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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You've got it. Out of the 1000's of regulations...by far, most are by the big assoc. funded (passed) by big business to kill their competition.

A Dr. in New England, I forget exactly where, offered patients what one could as accurately as possible, call...a service agreement.

The patient signs up, pays so much a month according to an in depth physical and the Dr. takes care of you for everything but tests by specialists and surgeries.

The courts shot it down without a regulation but saying [it] was too similar to offering and unlicensed security. Bullshit ruling but the hospitals and their Drs, win.

You just gotta love the 'free market.' [sic]

Of course you forgot where because it is a story that gets passed around because it is made up. It is untrue. Doctors do it all the time.

Well there was a court case sited. I'll look for it. But I will say that I have never been offered such an agreement and don't know anybody that has been offered such an agreement.

It's called concierge medicine and it is quite common.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concierge_medicine

Good link but as it read, still a fairly new practice and used by at most...5000 doctors. That is a very small fraction of 600,000 plus primary care Drs. in the US.

Not outlawed. Not forbidden. Not stopped by the courts. Fairly common as I said.

Well that court case was many years ago, so I am guessing that has changed but 5000 Drs. is hardly a sea change and anything near a move large enough to take our medical care out from under the clutches of the medical insurance oligopoly.

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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/19/2014 10:29:10 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-29/is-concierge-medicine-the-future-of-health-care

Yea...is [it] 'the future' of medicine ? Your link does not refer it being the present practice of medicine.

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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/19/2014 10:36:16 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Do you think it is rational to outlaw tesla cars in texas?


You do realize that this isn't true, right?

I realize that you are trying to pick fly shit out of pepper.

Tesla cars aren't illegal in Texas. It's only Tesla's direct sales model that's illegal.

Which means you can't buy a tesla in texas.

You can't buy a Tesla in Texas, but there's nothing stopping you from buying one a state over and registering it in Texas.

Just how does one do that? There are no dealers in any state as far as I know. Just how does one take delivery? Go to another state and create an address so it can be shipped to you?

That being said, I don't agree with this law. I see no real problem with a factory selling direct to it's customers and skipping the middleman. The one argument I can find against it, that it's to protect consumers from some fly-by-night car manufacturer selling direct and then declaring bankruptcy, to be pretty slim.


Do you think it is rational to outlaw the sale of tesla car in texas?
Does this solve your word game?

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/19/2014 11:08:30 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Do you think it is rational to outlaw tesla cars in texas?



You do realize that this isn't true, right?

I realize that you are trying to pick fly shit out of pepper.

Tesla cars aren't illegal in Texas. It's only Tesla's direct sales model that's illegal.

Which means you can't buy a tesla in texas.

You can't buy a Tesla in Texas, but there's nothing stopping you from buying one a state over and registering it in Texas.

Just how does one do that? There are no dealers in any state as far as I know. Just how does one take delivery? Go to another state and create an address so it can be shipped to you?

That being said, I don't agree with this law. I see no real problem with a factory selling direct to it's customers and skipping the middleman. The one argument I can find against it, that it's to protect consumers from some fly-by-night car manufacturer selling direct and then declaring bankruptcy, to be pretty slim.


Do you think it is rational to outlaw the sale of tesla car in texas?
Does this solve your word game?




Gee, since the last thing I said was "I don't agree with this law. I see no real problem with a factory selling direct to it's customers and skipping the middleman", no, I don't think it's rational to outlaw the sale of Tesla cars in Texas. Does that answer your word problem? Again? Cause it was so vague the first time?

Trying to pick fly-shit out of pepper? Wow, love the imagery. Just curious, are your misrepresentations the pepper or the fly-shit? Am I nit-picking, perhaps, but being not legal to sell, and not legal to own are two very different things. For someone as smart as you claim to be, with as much time on your hands as you've also claimed, I'd think you'd know the difference.

As to where to buy a Tesla, they are only banned from selling in 5 states, Texas, NJ, Arizona, Colorado, and Virginia. So I'd say, go to one of those others and buy yourself one. Again with all those smarts and time, I'd think this would be a no brainer. It took me all of 2 minutes to answer that tricky one.

Here's a list of all those dealers you don't know about. http://www.teslamotors.com/findus
In case you don't believe Tesla's site, here's another. http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/Tesla/

How to buy one and take delivery? Again, not a real tough question to answer. Per Money Morning; "Tesla still operates "galleries" in each of those states. At a Tesla gallery, customers are able to view Model S sedans and are referred to the company's website, where they can purchase a vehicle online. Gallery employees are unable to answer pricing or purchasing questions from customers." So it appears that there's nothing stopping a Texas resident from ordering on-line and accepting delivery at their nearest service center. Since the law in Texas bans sales, but doesn't close the existing centers, there are still 3 centers available at which to take delivery.

< Message edited by ThirdWheelWanted -- 5/19/2014 11:11:16 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/20/2014 11:04:47 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

Gee, since the last thing I said was "I don't agree with this law. I see no real problem with a factory selling direct to it's customers and skipping the middleman", no, I don't think it's rational to outlaw the sale of Tesla cars in Texas. Does that answer your word problem? Again? Cause it was so vague the first time?

yup

Trying to pick fly-shit out of pepper? Wow, love the imagery.


Me too

Just curious, are your misrepresentations the pepper or the fly-shit? Am I nit-picking, perhaps, but being not legal to sell, and not legal to own are two very different things.


I did not say "illegal to own"

For someone as smart as you claim to be, with as much time on your hands as you've also claimed, I'd think you'd know the difference.

I do

As to where to buy a Tesla, they are only banned from selling in 5 states, Texas, NJ, Arizona, Colorado, and Virginia. So I'd say, go to one of those others and buy yourself one. Again with all those smarts and time, I'd think this would be a no brainer. It took me all of 2 minutes to answer that tricky one.

Here's a list of all those dealers you don't know about. http://www.teslamotors.com/findus
In case you don't believe Tesla's site, here's another. http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/Tesla/

How to buy one and take delivery? Again, not a real tough question to answer. Per Money Morning; "Tesla still operates "galleries" in each of those states. At a Tesla gallery, customers are able to view Model S sedans and are referred to the company's website, where they can purchase a vehicle online. Gallery employees are unable to answer pricing or purchasing questions from customers." So it appears that there's nothing stopping a Texas resident from ordering on-line and accepting delivery at their nearest service center. Since the law in Texas bans sales, but doesn't close the existing centers, there are still 3 centers available at which to take delivery.


I went to one of the sites you listed in houston and it appears that I can buy a tesla there.
I wasn't able to talk to someone on line but if you buy it on line and they ship the car to the service center what does the state of texas do? Is that all there is to it? Is it just a function of not giving the service center in texas any money? Can the servicd center do any maintainance?

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/20/2014 2:59:05 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


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Joined: 4/23/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I went to one of the sites you listed in houston and it appears that I can buy a tesla there.
I wasn't able to talk to someone on line but if you buy it on line and they ship the car to the service center what does the state of texas do? Is that all there is to it? Is it just a function of not giving the service center in texas any money? Can the servicd center do any maintainance?



There's not much they can do under the current law, anymore then they can stop you from registering one that you bought in another state. It also seems like they can do maintenance. As far as I can tell, the only thing that Tesla can't do is sell direct to the public in those 5 states. So their employees can't discuss pricing, offer a test drive, or direct customers to other sales locations. (But they can direct them to the website?) Unless they go the next step and make them illegal all together (which seems unlikely since they already meet all the legal requirements for operating on roads in the US), it really doesn't seem that consumers are losing out by having to order from the website. Stupid law all around.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/21/2014 9:04:32 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		As I mentioned I went to the website and looked at their offerings,71k-93k.
One buyer mentioned that his fuel bill went from $3500 a year for gasoline to $150 a year increase in his home electric bill.

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 5/21/2014 9:05:04 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/21/2014 8:01:41 PM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline 		That's pretty impressive. It'll take quite a few years to balance out buying a $70K car though. Definitely something to think about once they become practically priced.

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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/22/2014 8:12:39 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

That's pretty impressive. It'll take quite a few years to balance out buying a $70K car though. Definitely something to think about once they become practically priced.
[/quote]

About 20 years based on three dollar a gallon gas...not to difficult to scale that out. Gasoline in europe I undersand is about $8-$9...so probably on the order of 7-8 years. I would not expect to see the price come down significantly. There is a vid on the net that shows their automated assembly plant. Very little human labor goes into that car. All I see coming down would be in battery technology...price and weight are headed down now at the lab level but I don't think comercial production can be more than a few years ahead.

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RE: Death of American Can do spirit - 5/22/2014 3:28:28 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

After immigration reform --


what immigration reform??? how many years (decades?), how many Presidents has this been "in progress"? I don't see anything happening with immigration for many, many more years..

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