RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"?

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youthinkso121 -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 4:43:28 AM)
And why should a dominant female feel a male sub should empty his wallet. Its not just the sub looking for something, assumedly the fem Domme is as well. My mistake most fem dommes only think money.

eulero83 -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 5:13:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal In the vanilla world there is parity, a tendency to stay within one's socio-economic station, as it were. Normally, the majority of women (with any sense) don't choose dating partners of a widely disparate economic station, or they choose to adhere to certain minimum standards. in another thread I think there was a certain cultural difference between the two shores of the atlantic about this, but for sake of conversation can we just assume by definition two random people will more likely happen to be both in the middleclass so this is the most common scenario? quote: If you ask out a lady of simple means to accompany you to a White House dinner, unless you want her to feel embarrassed and humiliated, you should take her out to buy a formal gown with matching accessories, offer to get her hair done, a mani-pedi. She may not need to get a professional waxing job done for this occasion. If you are unwilling to underwrite the expense she would have to incur, then you have no business asking out a lady of simple means in the first place. This might seem to be an extreme example, but I'm illustrating a point. That's an exageration, and has nothing to do with what I was talking about, if I'll invite a domme at a party in villa arcore I'll be sure she has the fanciest fetish gear. quote: I'll put it another way, hypothetically speaking. You're horny or you have subfever. All you seek is gratification. Please don't feed me a line about how unselfish a lover you might be. Let's say you are looking to USE a woman for sexual gratification and/or fetish gratification and/or kink gratification. The fact that you may want this sexual/BDSM arrangement to be on a regular basis doesn't make your motives any nobler. if that was my angle than of course a pro domme would be my right match, I'm not saying pro or fin domme don't have a reason to be, I also defended the idea behind financial domination in other threads, I'm just saying there are submissives who are not into this kind of stuff. quote: With a vanilla woman, if you have any decency, you will ask her out on a date in the hopes of getting lucky. Why should a vanilla woman get treated better than a Domme? Or to put it another way again, why should a Dominant female get treated any less than a vanilla lady would? Do you not see how supremely disrespectful this is? How shabby? So why should a male submissive presume he should get access to a Dominant female WITHOUT any parity? Did you mean that if I have any decency I would not ask a woman out just in the hope of getting lucky? Anyway I don't know if you have this idea that all man just want sex and other stereotype, just to be clear not every man is a selfish jerk looking just for the satisfaction of his own needs with the less possible commitment. We probably start from very different point of views and I see the idea you have of vanilla dating kind of sick. Just to reconnect this with the original post, if a domme presents herself than if I accept those terms I expect for her to satisfy my fetish needs in excange of those contribution, and in my opinion is not to serve, but it's because she opened just that door it's not my fault (the same is valid for any simillar case in vanilla dating).

Telios -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 5:59:01 AM)
I have pondered every response, and I thank all for your thoughts. I feel better now, and, more enlightened than I was before I had asked. Thank you.

DesFIP -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 9:10:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 I don't know if you want just to make a point or if your point is a male submissive has to tribute for the mistress time in some sort of way, if it's not giving her money directly than it has to be though objects. For sake of conversation in your opinion should a female sub provide for the male dom equipments or is it always the male has to provide everything for the female? I think subs should own their own toy bags so that things used on them are not used on others. That way you eliminate a lot of risk of disease transmission. However, you've changed the focus from the op who isn't looking for a full relationship as far as I can see, to someone who is. We live together, so we share costs. But if we were just meeting once a month for play, that would be a different story. The difference here is that most women don't have fetishes that the guy is expected to cater to. Whereas a lot of male subs/bottoms do, and that's expensive. I'd say that in M/f, relationships it's more likely that it is still the M who has the fetish and wants the s in a latex dress or whatever. If I had a fetish for handmade corsets, I would have saved up and bought one. If he wants me to wear one, then it's incumbent on him to pay the $400 and up. Anytime you want a partner to buy something expensive to make you happy, then you ought to be buying it. Simply because that's a big bite out of people's income. Him saying, "next time you buy bras, get one in red" doesn't cost me anything because eventually I'll be buying one anyway.

FieryOpal -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 10:38:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Telios I have pondered every response, and I thank all for your thoughts. I feel better now, and, more enlightened than I was before I had asked. Thank you. You're welcome in advance with me because I didn't directly address the questions you posed. There are different kinds of Dommes, just as there are different kinds of submissives, and not everybody is looking for the same thing. To get back on topic, you asked: OP Telios, "Am I a service submissive? Or something else?" Being a service submissive has a distinct meaning to some. Most, if not all, genuinely submissive (i.e. those seeking a D/s relationship dynamic, not merely BDSM play activity) people are service-oriented. Being service-oriented per "one who gains pleasure out of doing things that are pleasing to others." is a part of this. If I were you, though, I wouldn't go around calling myself a "service submissive" unless you are willing to accept limitations in the scope of your D/s relationship. I say this because when I hear other Dommes refer to their service submissive(s), they mean it in a non-sexual way. Even providing personal services is done non-sexually. One example of this would be a Domme and sub who have an arrangement that he comes over every weekend or every other weekend to do work around her house of either a domestic service nature or handyman-laborer type of work. In that instance, he may be normally clothed while outdoors, but while indoors, may want to be half naked or wear a maid's outfit, or be completely nude. There is a Domme who lets her non-sexual service subs wear diapers on occasion. A personal service sub may give mani-pedis, fix hair, perform services of a more personal nature with a variable degree of intimacy involved. I would consider the services provided by a sub to be more of a work-for-Domination or barter-for-BDSM-play arrangement between the two. There are subs who offer their services for bondage or impact play. Others are content to gratify their fetish (being naked or [cross-]dressed a certain way) in exchange for their services. There might even be subs who are willing to pay for these "privileges," [8\|] but in general the services being rendered are counted as the sub's contribution to the (non-sexual) D/s relationship dynamic. If this isn't what you're looking for, then don't settle for less than what you have realistically envisioned in your D/s relationship dynamic. BDSM is separate in that if you are just out to satisfy your particular fetish and/or kink - which is the basis in which I was addressing eulero's posts - and are merely a bottom seeking play with a female to Top you, not a physically intimate long-term or relationship with your Mistress, then don't expect your Top to subsidize your cravings to engage in BDSM play without offering to cover any associated costs and fees. As a matter of fact, you wouldn't even need a Dominant female to fulfill your Topping needs, just somebody to act as a service Top. IMHO, some on-line or cyber-Domme telling you that a "service submissive is...someone who contributes resources to the dominant partner" is full of shite. This has nothing to do with being a service sub.

eulero83 -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 10:39:35 AM)
I agree with what you wrote here but the thing I changed the focus from the op, you did. I think you checked his profile, nothing he offers has to do with toys or fetish gears. So in my opinion if a mistress likes having her home cleaned and having someone cooking for her than he is the man, otherwise she should just don't bother him. When and if he won't find anyone and will be desperate to house keep he'll find a pro domme that will trash her home before his visits in excange of a fair pay.

imtempting -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 12:59:24 PM)
@op, a service sub is someone who does things for the domme/dom. Onto the 2nd topic of this thread. Everyone is just looking at the sub angle what about the domme angle. What if the domme wants to the sub to be in latex or some other clothing? Going by the dommes answers on this thread, it will be up to the domme to buy the clothing... After all, alls fair is it not?

eulero83 -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 1:52:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imtempting Onto the 2nd topic of this thread. Everyone is just looking at the sub angle what about the domme angle. What if the domme wants to the sub to be in latex or some other clothing? Going by the dommes answers on this thread, it will be up to the domme to buy the clothing... After all, alls fair is it not? yes... but good luck with that

DesFIP -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 2:26:45 PM)
It's also going to be a once in a thousand occasion. We know that true fetishists are almost entirely male. So if a domme wants a sub in latex, she's going to have hundreds who already own latex to choose from. We're discussing theory now, not the reality.

imtempting -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 3:26:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP It's also going to be a once in a thousand occasion. We know that true fetishists are almost entirely male. So if a domme wants a sub in latex, she's going to have hundreds who already own latex to choose from. We're discussing theory now, not the reality. I only discuss reality, not theory/fantasy. There would also be thousands of dommes that own fetish gear, so why should a sub but the domme gear if she already owns it?

FieryOpal -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/18/2014 3:34:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: imtempting Onto the 2nd topic of this thread. Everyone is just looking at the sub angle what about the domme angle. What if the domme wants to the sub to be in latex or some other clothing? Going by the dommes answers on this thread, it will be up to the domme to buy the clothing... After all, alls fair is it not? yes... but good luck with that ROFLMAO, talk about real life v. watching too much FemDom porn and making shite up. Or else wishful thinking. Clueless. Here's reverse cluelessness: "op, a service sub is someone who does things for the domme/dom." Ya think? That would be every single submissive there is. [8\|] Following this line of logic then, Dominants who do things for their subs must be service Dom/mes. :p

FriendlyMuppet -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/19/2014 8:27:38 AM)
As others have said in this thread, it sounds very much like the person who "educated" you was using your desire to be considered a service submissive against you by trying to convince you that you had to give her money to somehow be that which you claimed to be. As someone who has written EXTENSIVELY on service submission, I can say that your initial comments indicate that you are on the path to being just that. Money exchanging hands has absolutely nothing to do with service submission in its core. Someone can be a service submissive AND contribute money, but the two are exclusive from each other. That person just sounds like a predator findom trying to get your money.

Telios -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/19/2014 4:14:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FriendlyMuppet As someone who has written EXTENSIVELY on service submission, I can say that your initial comments indicate that you are on the path to being just that. Thanks for all the thoughtful and insightful replies.

FieryOpal -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/19/2014 8:30:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FriendlyMuppet As others have said in this thread, it sounds very much like the person who "educated" you was using your desire to be considered a service submissive against you by trying to convince you that you had to give her money to somehow be that which you claimed to be. As someone who has written EXTENSIVELY on service submission, I can say that your initial comments indicate that you are on the path to being just that. Money exchanging hands has absolutely nothing to do with service submission in its core. Someone can be a service submissive AND contribute money, but the two are exclusive from each other. That person just sounds like a predator findom trying to get your money. Muppet, since you're well-versed on this subject, do you think Dominants as a group have the same concept in mind about what they seek in a service sub than what the sub has conceptualized? That they both generally mean in a non-sexual service capacity? Furthermore, I've noticed that some Dominants consider their service subs to be slaves, and so do the s-types themselves. (Much like fetishists and chastity types tend to refer to themselves as slaves also.) Any comments on that or suggestions for a submissive to avoid misunderstandings in conveying the wrong impression if that is not all he wants out of D/s relationship dynamic?

costamonger -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/20/2014 12:42:55 PM)
Why its a person that sells i screams! What does the word service mean you?

Vgsjohn -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/20/2014 12:48:03 PM)
Disclaimer - my opinion. Nor right or wrong. just my definition. i would like to take this a step further and say...a person "in service" is a person that provides, one way, service. meaning nothing is expected back from the service. unconditional service. not i will serve You, so You will play with me. a Top/Dom/Master could be in service to Their community

MizzSpitfire -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/20/2014 1:19:20 PM)
What a "service submissive" ISN'T: A guy who says he will do "anything sexual" you want him to. When are these men going to stop equating service with sex?

FriendlyMuppet -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/20/2014 3:11:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: FriendlyMuppet As others have said in this thread, it sounds very much like the person who "educated" you was using your desire to be considered a service submissive against you by trying to convince you that you had to give her money to somehow be that which you claimed to be. As someone who has written EXTENSIVELY on service submission, I can say that your initial comments indicate that you are on the path to being just that. Money exchanging hands has absolutely nothing to do with service submission in its core. Someone can be a service submissive AND contribute money, but the two are exclusive from each other. That person just sounds like a predator findom trying to get your money. Muppet, since you're well-versed on this subject, do you think Dominants as a group have the same concept in mind about what they seek in a service sub than what the sub has conceptualized? That they both generally mean in a non-sexual service capacity? Furthermore, I've noticed that some Dominants consider their service subs to be slaves, and so do the s-types themselves. (Much like fetishists and chastity types tend to refer to themselves as slaves also.) Any comments on that or suggestions for a submissive to avoid misunderstandings in conveying the wrong impression if that is not all he wants out of D/s relationship dynamic? In my opinion, one of the misunderstandings of service submissives is the compartmentalization of their submission into one thing or the other. Basically, what I mean is that a service submissive does not necessarily mean that he or she is uninterested, fascinated by, or intrigued by being used sexually by his or her dominant. What it often means is that for the service submissive, most interactions between he/she and the dominant are more geared towards a desire to serve the dominant in whatever way she deems appropriate. I think this disparity has emerged because of the Internet and the fantasy that some dominants have that they can get both a service submissive (who isn't interested in sex) AND a sexual submissive (who is only interested in sex). When I first started seeking a partner years back, I remember so many dominant women who were scoping me out and once they had me in their cross hairs during coffee, or whatever, I'd often hear something like "I really want you to be my slave. By the way, I have a submissive I use to inflict pain/have sex/or whatever so that's not why I would want you." At that time, I started separating these women into categories of "seeks a sincere submissive" and "wants a cleaning person but doesn't really want to pay someone to come around and do it". When I have been successful, it's usually with a woman who is seeking pretty much EVERYTHING from her submissive, and then as a service submissive I am able to be everything that she wants and needs me to be. Quite often, it's frustrating because it rarely ends up being the activity I'd like at the time I want, manly because our interaction boils down to what SHE wants to do and WHEN. But when the minds are in sync, then it works out really well.

FieryOpal -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/20/2014 3:50:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FriendlyMuppet In my opinion, one of the misunderstandings of service submissives is the compartmentalization of their submission into one thing or the other. Basically, what I mean is that a service submissive does not necessarily mean that he or she is uninterested, fascinated by, or intrigued by being used sexually by his or her dominant. What it often means is that for the service submissive, most interactions between he/she and the dominant are more geared towards a desire to serve the dominant in whatever way she deems appropriate. I think this disparity has emerged because of the Internet and the fantasy that some dominants have that they can get both a service submissive (who isn't interested in sex) AND a sexual submissive (who is only interested in sex). When I first started seeking a partner years back, I remember so many dominant women who were scoping me out and once they had me in their cross hairs during coffee, or whatever, I'd often hear something like "I really want you to be my slave. By the way, I have a submissive I use to inflict pain/have sex/or whatever so that's not why I would want you." At that time, I started separating these women into categories of "seeks a sincere submissive" and "wants a cleaning person but doesn't really want to pay someone to come around and do it". When I have been successful, it's usually with a woman who is seeking pretty much EVERYTHING from her submissive, and then as a service submissive I am able to be everything that she wants and needs me to be. Quite often, it's frustrating because it rarely ends up being the activity I'd like at the time I want, manly because our interaction boils down to what SHE wants to do and WHEN. But when the minds are in sync, then it works out really well. Thanks much for your perspective, which pretty much fits in with how I've viewed this objectively unfolding with other Dominants. Given a choice, though, between a service sub and more of a sex slave, I'd go with the sex slave. [;)] (You know, your phrase as highlighted) Your mindset is geared toward more of a intimate partnership I've inferred, as is mine, and that's where many male subs get confused. Either this isn't really what they want (they think and hope anything kinky is D/s) and have their own private agenda instead (BDSM play over D/s relationship dynamic), or the Mistress they seek isn't seeking a full-fledged intimate relationship with whichever sub she's looking to own. It ends up with both parties not being on the same page and feeling misled, let down, and/or unfairly used. The onus of responsibility falls on each set of shoulders individually for the choices we make. It isn't always submissives who get the short end of the stick out of neediness. Dominants can be equally as needy. Both types are equally culpable for capitalizing on the other's unmet needs.

Telios -> RE: What exactly is a "service submissive"? (5/20/2014 8:04:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizzSpitfire What a "service submissive" ISN'T: A guy who says he will do "anything sexual" you want him to. When are these men going to stop equating service with sex? Interesting observation. I must say that, for me, while "sex" isn't the reward, per se, I wouldn't even think of being a service submissive to a man. So, sexuality "is" involved. Somehow.

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