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Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 12:39:50 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		So it turns out that 40 people in the Phoenix have died because they were put on secret waiting lists, because appointments weren't available to them.

These are military vets, people that we should hold in the highest regard because of their service to our country.


Now that we are in the process of expanding Obamacare to everyone do explain to me how likely it will be that care won't be rationed.
Especially since there are multiple boards whose entire purpose will be to ration care along a variety of axis.

Do you really think that Ocare is going to say - yes the purpose of this board will be to decide who gets care in an era of declining funds availability"
Or do you think they'd dress it up and say..

this board is designed to ensure that the most effective treatments are standardized across american healthcare.....

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 5/19/2014 12:47:02 PM >
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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 12:42:58 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I would assume the nutsackers will (as they always do) go in there and fuck it up, defund it and then point the fingers elsewhere as they are wont to do.

God, only 40? Wonder how many people died on waiting lists issued from the insurance companies?

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 12:43:27 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Maybe it was a bad idea for Bush to cut VA funding.

Maybe the Republicans should stop voting against it.

There's your "Death Panel."

(in reply to Phydeaux)
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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 12:49:24 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe it was a bad idea for Bush to cut VA funding.

Maybe the Republicans should stop voting against it.

There's your "Death Panel."



Sorry, last I checked the VA has been under the direction of the OBAMA administration.
Including multiple years when the democrats controlled both houses of congress.

No way to lay this at bush's feet. Might as well blame hoover.

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 12:55:45 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry, which multiple years were those?

Because before Bush, we weren't cutting VA funding. Then Bush handed off a recession where he's already driven monetary policy to interest rates so low there was nowhere to go -- and then left (with the VA cut in place).

Senate Republicans then made it their mission to block anything procedurally they could -- and without 60 Democrats lined up on an issue, Republicans were able to do so effectively.

Two years after that -- House Republicans are again voting against VA funding. Been that way ever since.

By the way -- Obama proposed a 10% increase in VA funding for 2014.

Instead of that, Republicans *added* military spending the military didn't even want.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/19/2014 1:04:34 PM >

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 1:02:06 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe it was a bad idea for Bush to cut VA funding.

Maybe the Republicans should stop voting against it.

There's your "Death Panel."



Sorry, last I checked the VA has been under the direction of the OBAMA administration.
Including multiple years when the democrats controlled both houses of congress.

No way to lay this at bush's feet. Might as well blame hoover.



Yeah, we know you are extremely unknowledgeable about things happening all around you that you should pay attention to, and the massive VA cut was 2006 and the house was republican the senate was republican and the executive branch was republican, and it has been trying to fight back from those draconian cuts since.

While the VA system may get higher funding year to year now, it does not keep up with medical costs and starts from a very pathetic massively cut base.



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 1:06:15 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe it was a bad idea for Bush to cut VA funding.

Maybe the Republicans should stop voting against it.

There's your "Death Panel."



Sorry, last I checked the VA has been under the direction of the OBAMA administration.
Including multiple years when the democrats controlled both houses of congress.

No way to lay this at bush's feet. Might as well blame hoover.


Lets see, the Republicans under Obama have voted consistently against increasing funding for the VA, and that is Obama's fault?

Or should Obama disband congress and demand new elections for the house and senate, while getting things done by Executive order?

_____________________________

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 2:47:20 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe it was a bad idea for Bush to cut VA funding.

Maybe the Republicans should stop voting against it.

There's your "Death Panel."



Sorry, last I checked the VA has been under the direction of the OBAMA administration.
Including multiple years when the democrats controlled both houses of congress.

No way to lay this at bush's feet. Might as well blame hoover.

Maybe you don't understand reality. You cannot magically expand the VA overnight. From 2002 to 2009 the VA did not grow enough to keep up with demand, I know I use the VA for medical care. Then in 2010 it did start to grow but then in 2011 things stopped again. Simply put the Republicans have consistently not funded the VA and now vets are dying because of it.

But good try blaming someone else for it. Standard con tactic.

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 3:56:17 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		So it turns out that 40 people in the Phoenix have died because they were put on secret waiting lists, because appointments weren't available to them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe it was a bad idea for Bush to cut VA funding.

Maybe the Republicans should stop voting against it.

There's your "Death Panel."


Well said

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 4:07:02 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Maybe it was a bad idea for Bush to cut VA funding.

Maybe the Republicans should stop voting against it.

There's your "Death Panel."



Sorry, last I checked the VA has been under the direction of the OBAMA administration.
Including multiple years when the democrats controlled both houses of congress.

No way to lay this at bush's feet. Might as well blame hoover.


Lets see, the Republicans under Obama have voted consistently against increasing funding for the VA, and that is Obama's fault?

Don't you know: Obama assassinated JFK as well.

Or should Obama disband congress and demand new elections for the house and senate, while getting things done by Executive order?


I am sure that there is plenty of blame to spread across both sides of the political aisles.
But finger pointing isn't going to solve anything.
Granted it is part of business as usual, but it will do nothing to actually solve the problems.


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(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 4:21:05 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Look since the VA cuts in 2006, the VA surgery center here in Texas was closed, vets have to travel to Albuquerque NM for any kind of surgery.

Now granted two smaller VA hospitals in the state have facilities to perform most surgeries, but there is no staff, funding for surgical staff, and the facilities have been closed since before 2006.

At this point, every time I hear a GOP candidate say we have to do more for our veterans who also happens to be on record for voting against VA funding, I get the overwhelming desire to do bodily harm to the individual.

I have a suggestion, stop the congressional medical coverage, force them to use VA facilities, and see how fast funding is increased.

Hell, cut congressional pay to that of a an O1, @nd Lt. for you civilians, or ensign if you want the navy version, which is 2905.20 per month with annual increases for length of service. Peak possible pay would cap out at 4632.30 per month after 40 years of holding office.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 5/19/2014 4:24:45 PM >

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to angelikaJ)
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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 4:27:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Look since the VA cuts in 2006, the VA surgery center here in Texas was closed, vets have to travel to Albuquerque NM for any kind of surgery.

Now granted two smaller VA hospitals in the state have facilities to perform most surgeries, but there is no staff, funding for surgical staff, and the facilities have been closed since before 2006.

At this point, every time I hear a GOP candidate say we have to do more for our veterans who also happens to be on record for voting against VA funding, I get the overwhelming desire to do bodily harm to the individual.

I have a suggestion, stop the congressional medical coverage, force them to use VA facilities, and see how fast funding is increased.

I have a knee injury that from my time in the navy that means I see a VA orthopod periodically. Prior to 2004 it was simple to get an appointment and  there was no significant wait to get the testing he wanted. Since then wait times have gotten longer and longer for everything. I don't mind since my injury is very minor compared to the guys who are taking the spots in front of me but those guys should get the very best of everything and they clearly aren't.

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 4:59:25 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
I am sure that there is plenty of blame to spread across both sides of the political aisles.

Your input would be more valuable if you were to help us pinpoint just who(as individuals representing any political party)actually voted against va funding.

But finger pointing isn't going to solve anything.

Many vets have (of necessity) done the necessary research to find out just who the punkassmotherfuckers are who consistantly vote against va funding thus we feel confident when we point out the punkassmotherfucker/s who is/are causing us to have issues.


Granted it is part of business as usual, but it will do nothing to actually solve the problems

I do not have a problem with hanging a bell on the cats tail. Whenever some politician votes to decreae funding for the va I will shout that punkassmotherfucker's name long and loud

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/19/2014 11:45:15 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Hell, one of my accounts when in Va. was the VA Hdq., Va. Ave., NW DC. Even those offices the Hdq no less...were run down, dirty shit holes.

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/20/2014 10:03:51 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		Curious how I brought this issue up back on 4/24/14 with the heading of: 'State of the Art Healthcare' in the VA Hospitals.

Source that started that discussion].

Imagine if conservatives and libertarians were as outrage over this issue as they are with Benghazi? Oh wait forgot.....they'd have to hold responsible the very people they vote into office without question election after election: The Republican/Tea Party. And they cant do that, since that would mean Democrats would win elected office and Republican/Tea Party would be forced to field candidates more in the middle of the political debates.

Death Panels = Republican/Tea Party

The Affordable Care Act does not directly effect the VA Hospitals, but Congress does. Its well known that Democrats would LOVE to overhaul the whole program from top to bottom.. Put in more equipment, trained and paid people, and increase the ability to serve veterans. And from what has been learned from the crafting of the ACA? Don't listen to the Republican/Tea Party, their supporters, the lobbyists; nor agree to any deals with them (since they'll go back on their word...just like the ACA).



< Message edited by joether -- 5/20/2014 10:04:06 AM >

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/20/2014 10:16:19 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		My! I don't know anything about VA care in the USA.

But any fool can see that Phydeaux's attempt at blaming Obama for the funding crisis in the VA system has blown up in his face, and that his mates in the GOP/Tea Party are the people responsible for denying healthcare funding to your nation's veterans.

Still, the facts have never stopped a looney right rant and I don't suppose they ever will.

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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/20/2014 11:26:07 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

My! I don't know anything about VA care in the USA.

But any fool can see that Phydeaux's attempt at blaming Obama for the funding crisis in the VA system has blown up in his face, and that his mates in the GOP/Tea Party are the people responsible for denying healthcare funding to your nation's veterans.

Still, the facts have never stopped a looney right rant and I don't suppose they ever will.


When I was unemployed due to this 'Great Recession', I had to deal with a critical health problem. I got better care, faster and less hassle, then a friend of a friend of mine whom served in both Iraq and Afghanistan! That these whom served in our armed forces treated like shit should be shameful to anyone that calls themselves an American!

Phyedaux believes that this is 100% controlled by President Obama. The President and Democrats would change this system for the better if they were able to. So long as the Republican/Tea Party control the House, and Democrats need 60 votes in the Senate......NOTHING....will get improved upon.

To bad Phydeaux and other conservatives/libertarians can not hold the Republican/Tea Party to the same level of accountability and responsibility with power as they slam the President/Democrats on an hourly basis.....


(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/20/2014 12:40:38 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

My! I don't know anything about VA care in the USA.

But any fool can see that Phydeaux's attempt at blaming Obama for the funding crisis in the VA system has blown up in his face, and that his mates in the GOP/Tea Party are the people responsible for denying healthcare funding to your nation's veterans.

Still, the facts have never stopped a looney right rant and I don't suppose they ever will.


When I was unemployed due to this 'Great Recession', I had to deal with a critical health problem. I got better care, faster and less hassle, then a friend of a friend of mine whom served in both Iraq and Afghanistan! That these whom served in our armed forces treated like shit should be shameful to anyone that calls themselves an American!

Phyedaux believes that this is 100% controlled by President Obama. The President and Democrats would change this system for the better if they were able to. So long as the Republican/Tea Party control the House, and Democrats need 60 votes in the Senate......NOTHING....will get improved upon.

To bad Phydeaux and other conservatives/libertarians can not hold the Republican/Tea Party to the same level of accountability and responsibility with power as they slam the President/Democrats on an hourly basis.....





The va has been my primary health care provider for about 50 years. Not too long ago, on a sunday morning I got a pain in my stomach. I have had several kidney stones in the past 30 years and they all feel alike and it is not particularly pleasant. I showed up at the va hospital at about ten in the morning on a sunday...pain level 10+. Triaged in less than ten minutes. In a bed and iv/analgesic pain level 0 in 15 minutes. Consult with md within 30 minutes.Cat scan 1.5 hr. Second consult with md 2 hours.
I am not sure where that sort of service is available anywhere except maybe tv.
Perhaps it is location?

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/20/2014 3:56:28 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

My! I don't know anything about VA care in the USA.

But any fool can see that Phydeaux's attempt at blaming Obama for the funding crisis in the VA system has blown up in his face, and that his mates in the GOP/Tea Party are the people responsible for denying healthcare funding to your nation's veterans.

Still, the facts have never stopped a looney right rant and I don't suppose they ever will.


When I was unemployed due to this 'Great Recession', I had to deal with a critical health problem. I got better care, faster and less hassle, then a friend of a friend of mine whom served in both Iraq and Afghanistan! That these whom served in our armed forces treated like shit should be shameful to anyone that calls themselves an American!

Phyedaux believes that this is 100% controlled by President Obama. The President and Democrats would change this system for the better if they were able to. So long as the Republican/Tea Party control the House, and Democrats need 60 votes in the Senate......NOTHING....will get improved upon.

To bad Phydeaux and other conservatives/libertarians can not hold the Republican/Tea Party to the same level of accountability and responsibility with power as they slam the President/Democrats on an hourly basis.....




Do you really think that if an up or down clean bill to raise funding were brought to the house or senate by the democrats that the republicans would vote against it?

Really?

Considering vets are one of their core constituents?

(in reply to joether)
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RE: Death Panels, the VA and Obamacare - 5/20/2014 4:08:30 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Duh. Yes.

But Republicans will do their best to obfuscate it.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/27/senate-heads-toward-showdown-vote-on-veterans-bill/?page=all
http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140227/NEWS05/302270033/Senate-blocks-huge-vets-benefits-bill

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/20/2014 4:10:12 PM >

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