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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 3:53:51 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Remember, my position is for myself.
What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine.


Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation.

I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 361
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 3:55:55 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I did find this which totally destroys your shoot to wound loigic.

That was one of the documents I had to wade through to find it said nothing pertinent to our discussion. It is about a law requiring cops to use less than lethal response. It is a cops opinion about that proposed law in a state that is not florida.


I think you need to wade through that document again. This time read the last section, "Tactical Issues" again slowly. Ron Avory is a championship shooter and the head of the Practical Shooting Academy. It really doesn't matter that there as some kind of proposed legislation pertaining to law enforcement somewhere other than Florida or that it's a cops opinion, the same logic applies to civilians and you are the only expert I know of that would disagree. Should I get an adult to explain it to ya?

Nothing in that article shows that it is illegal to wound rather than kill.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 362
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 4:21:46 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick

LOL
This is hilarious!


I haven't followed this thread and have no intention of starting to do so. I can guess that it involves people tying themselves in knots about the fact that people regularly get killed when they're shot in self defence, but that's unavoidable (and indeed both legally and morally acceptable) - while those who *don't* use guns to defend themselves have a far greater burden on them to make sure that their attacker(s) remain alive.

This is a USA-focused debate, and in the USA, extreme positions on personal defence, guns and, most importantly of all, killing - are considered 'moderate'. It's bound to make us non-Americans feel baffled and bemused. Or even amused (though I can't say I feel the laughs just yet).




No, you didn't read the begining.
If you shoot an attacker, falls down and drops his gun, then you stand over him and continue fireing they go to jail. This thread began because someone in another thread suggested that 5 people should have taken the gun away from a guy (shooting started when someone reached for the gun) then the 5 of him should have beaten the guy to death. If they attack someone who snaps their neck by whatever means and it kills them they are clearly under no particular restriction not to have done so.
However if comes after a "victim" who smashes his knee with a baseball bat, then proceeds to beat him while he is lying there screaming in pain. The point of the thread was the opposite of what you presumed, that you have the same restrictions when you don't have a firearm that you have when you do.

Thanks, at least you are on topic.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 363
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 4:40:10 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I did find this which totally destroys your shoot to wound loigic.

That was one of the documents I had to wade through to find it said nothing pertinent to our discussion. It is about a law requiring cops to use less than lethal response. It is a cops opinion about that proposed law in a state that is not florida.


I think you need to wade through that document again. This time read the last section, "Tactical Issues" again slowly. Ron Avory is a championship shooter and the head of the Practical Shooting Academy. It really doesn't matter that there as some kind of proposed legislation pertaining to law enforcement somewhere other than Florida or that it's a cops opinion, the same logic applies to civilians and you are the only expert I know of that would disagree. Should I get an adult to explain it to ya?

Nothing in that article shows that it is illegal to wound rather than kill.



You are correct, nothing in the article shows it is illegal to wound rather than kill. What the article does is substantiate that your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion is invalid. In other words, shuting to woond is phouqing stoopid. Should I have an adult splain it to ya ?


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 364
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 4:52:08 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


You are correct, nothing in the article shows it is illegal to wound rather than kill.

Then what are you arguing about?


What the article does is substantiate that your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion is invalid. In other words, shuting to woond is phouqing stoopid. Should I have an adult splain it to ya ?

No it is simply his opinion. it validates nothing.
Perhaps you might want to get an adult to splan it to ya.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 365
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 4:53:05 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Remember, my position is for myself.
What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine.


Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation.

I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense.



I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ?


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 366
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 4:57:39 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Remember, my position is for myself.
What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine.


Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation.

I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense.



I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ?


As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 367
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:07:15 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


You are correct, nothing in the article shows it is illegal to wound rather than kill.

Then what are you arguing about?


What the article does is substantiate that your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion is invalid. In other words, shuting to woond is phouqing stoopid. Should I have an adult splain it to ya ?

No it is simply his opinion. it validates nothing.
Perhaps you might want to get an adult to splan it to ya.


I'm arguing that in a situation that warrants deadly force, shooting to wound is stupid. And actually it's an expert opinion which is corroborated by all if not most other experts vs your opinion that isn't worth the price of used shit paper. I think you'll need an adult to splain that one to you also ?

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 368
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:14:49 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Remember, my position is for myself.
What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine.


Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation.

I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense.



I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ?


As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another.


Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 369
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:23:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Remember, my position is for myself.
What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine.


Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation.

I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense.



I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ?


As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another.


Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer

Conspiracy to commit feloneous assault. Don't see lawyers lineing up for than.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 370
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:24:47 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another.


Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 371
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:26:36 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer

Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.


(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 372
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:29:00 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer

Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.




You mean check with my lawyer pertaining to your silly validation demonstration that's never going to happen ? I'll get right on it


< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 4/5/2016 5:31:15 PM >

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 373
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:32:31 PM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


I'm arguing that in a situation that warrants deadly force, shooting to wound is stupid.

Who decided what stuation "warrants" deadly force?

And actually it's an expert opinion which is corroborated by all if not most other experts

All of your experts are cops who are pimping a cop agenda.

vs your opinion that isn't worth the price of used shit paper. I think you'll need an adult to splain that one to you also ?

I do not need you or any of your cop experts to explain my opinion to me.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 374
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:36:00 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.




You mean check with my lawyer pertaining to your silly validation demonstration that's never going to happen ?

Another one with an excess of mouth and a lack of intestinal fortitude and money. You have made a wise decission young man. You will continue to walk without a iimp.

I'll get right on it

That will certainly disabuse you of your ignorance.



(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:42:07 PM   
epiphiny43


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer

Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.



NO 'release' or contract absolves from criminal responsibility. Any that covers criminal behavior is invalid on it's face.
Agreements between individuals govern legally enforceable interactions between the two. No agreement involving criminal behavior is enforceable or valid. Criminal law is the State regulating conduct and can't be superseded by private agreement. BDSM folks have been all over this issue, to no avail. Keep up?
It May help with civil liability, where Preponderance of Evidence (50% of responsibility) is more the rule. A judge or prosecuter may just have both parties (Surviving) charged with criminal conspiracy. Same as assisted suicide with a survivor under certain jurisdiction's codes.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 376
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:44:08 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


I'm arguing that in a situation that warrants deadly force, shooting to wound is stupid.

Who decided what stuation "warrants" deadly force?

And actually it's an expert opinion which is corroborated by all if not most other experts

All of your experts are cops who are pimping a cop agenda.

vs your opinion that isn't worth the price of used shit paper. I think you'll need an adult to splain that one to you also ?

I do not need you or any of your cop experts to explain my opinion to me.



1) Anyone who happens to be armed who is confronted with a life threatening situation.

2) Certainly not all practical shooting experts are cops. What other experts besides yourself can validate your opinion. The same tactical issues apply to civilians.

3) No, but you do need someone to explain how phouqing stoopid your unsubstantiated invalid opinion actually is.

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 377
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 5:58:00 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: epiphiny43
ORIGINAL: thompsonx

NO 'release' or contract absolves from criminal responsibility. Any that covers criminal behavior is invalid on it's face.
Agreements between individuals govern legally enforceable interactions between the two. No agreement involving criminal behavior is enforceable or valid. Criminal law is the State regulating conduct and can't be superseded by private agreement. BDSM folks have been all over this issue, to no avail. Keep up?
It May help with civil liability, where Preponderance of Evidence (50% of responsibility) is more the rule. A judge or prosecuter may just have both parties (Surviving) charged with criminal conspiracy. Same as assisted suicide with a survivor under certain jurisdiction's codes.

You are assuming a criminal conspiracy. That is not the issue here.
Consider the release of liability one signs when one goes sky diving.
I recently had the opportunity to drive a high powered race car at the cailfornia speedway(irwindale event center). Standard 12 page boilerplate release of liability while participatig in a potentially dangerous enterprise.
Yes I have spoken with base legal about this issue. Their only concern was with the criminal prohibition against dueling. They assured me that since I would be the only one with a gun it would not be a duel.


(in reply to epiphiny43)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 6:03:27 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


1) Anyone who happens to be armed who is confronted with a life threatening situation.

How convenient that the shooter is the one who decides. I have conveniently chosen not to take another life when I can simply remove the threat in a non lethal maner.

2) Certainly not all practical shooting experts are cops.

All that you have brought forward have been cops or copsuckers who validate that they cannot hit what they aim at unless it happens to be com



(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 379
RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to deat... - 4/5/2016 6:10:41 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
ORIGINAL: thompsonx


Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.




You mean check with my lawyer pertaining to your silly validation demonstration that's never going to happen ?

Another one with an excess of mouth and a lack of intestinal fortitude and money. You have made a wise decission young man. You will continue to walk without a iimp.





The only wise decision I've made is not to entertain your stupid discussion about a validation demonstration that is not only clearly illegal but isn't ever going to happen in the first place. I don't know how I could possibly make that any more clear to you. You really do need an adult to splain it to ya. But go ahead Mr Blowhard continue talking your talk.


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 380
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