RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"?

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

ifmaz -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/29/2016 9:27:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness ... quote: Bad guys look for weakness to attack. When they can't look out and predict who can fight back, they turn to burglary and car theft. No, burglars just want your fucking TV. They'd prefer to steal your shit when you were out. Actually confronting a homeowner is not something they're interested in. ... Someone ought to inform the person that broke into Kyle Burger's house, or the person that broke into an elderly couple's home and stabbed the husband. But mostly you're correct: robbers don't want to confront homeowners because the robbers are scared of being shot by the homeowners.

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/29/2016 9:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness ... quote: Bad guys look for weakness to attack. When they can't look out and predict who can fight back, they turn to burglary and car theft. No, burglars just want your fucking TV. They'd prefer to steal your shit when you were out. Actually confronting a homeowner is not something they're interested in. ... Someone ought to inform the person that broke into Kyle Burger's house, or the person that broke into an elderly couple's home and stabbed the husband. But mostly you're correct: robbers don't want to confront homeowners because the robbers are scared of being shot by the homeowners. When do you know that they are a home invader and not a peaceloving harmless burglar? When they start carving you up or raping your wife. In other words when it is too late to avoid injury.

ifmaz -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/29/2016 10:00:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness ... quote: Bad guys look for weakness to attack. When they can't look out and predict who can fight back, they turn to burglary and car theft. No, burglars just want your fucking TV. They'd prefer to steal your shit when you were out. Actually confronting a homeowner is not something they're interested in. ... Someone ought to inform the person that broke into Kyle Burger's house, or the person that broke into an elderly couple's home and stabbed the husband. But mostly you're correct: robbers don't want to confront homeowners because the robbers are scared of being shot by the homeowners. When do you know that they are a home invader and not a peaceloving harmless burglar? When they start carving you up or raping your wife. In other words when it is too late to avoid injury. This is why I post a 'CRIME FREE ZONE' sign on my property and I encourage everyone to do the same.

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/29/2016 10:02:17 PM)
A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her This is a perfect example of promoting a lie by telling the truth. Think about what this says. A woman with a gun is more likely to have it taken away from her than a woman without a gun, duh/ A woman with a gun is also more likely to shoot or at least scare off an intruder than a woman without a gun.

thishereboi -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 5:21:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD No, burglars just want your fucking TV. They'd prefer to steal your shit when you were out. Actually confronting a homeowner is not something they're interested in. Home invaders want your wife, you life, or both. You are in effect saying that if someone breaks into your home you have to pretend that they don't want to harm anyone, they are compasionate people who have fallen on hard times, and you have no right to protect your property. If they do turn violent it is solely because you didn't have the common curtesy to run from your home and leaving it to them. Where in the world do you get the idea that they are such nice people? I knew a guy down in florida who broke into homes for a living. He tried to make sure that no one was home when he broke in and hated the thought of having to confront someone. So I will have to give him that one point. However, the one time someone was there, he pulled a knife and stabbed the guy 8 times before running away. I guess the fact that he would have preferred an empty building didn't help the property owner a bit.

thishereboi -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 5:30:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on. A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women. Christ, people are depressingly stupid. I would imagine if that were true these boards would be flooded with links proving guns are actually putting women in more danger. But hang on to your delusions, like I said it's amusing to watch you bluster. Links, you say? From the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence: "A woman is far more likely to be the victim of a handgun homicide than to use a handgun in a justifiable homicide." "A study found that for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate partner in self-defense, 83 women were murdered by an intimate partner with a handgun." "When a gun is in the house, an abused woman is 6 times more likely than other abused women to be killed." "Research indicates that firearms are the most frequently used weapon in domestic violence homicides." Source From Harvard Injury Control Research Center, Harvard School of Public Health: "Across developed nations, where guns are more available, there are more homicides of women. The United States has the most firearms and U.S. women are far more likely to be homicide victims than women in other developed countries." "Women in states with many guns have elevated rates of unintentional gun deaths, suicides and homicide, particularly firearm suicides and firearm homicides." Source "We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime; other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns." "We found that firearms are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense." Source "The evidence is overwhelming for the fact that a gun in the home is a risk factor for completed suicide and that gun accidents are most likely to occur in homes with guns. There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes. On the benefit side, there are fewer studies, and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in." Source Yes links that lead to all the news stories of the women who have had guns taken away and used on them like the poster I responded to claimed were out there. According to Awareness my link was just a single-example click-bait article and if this were true it should be much easier to find articles going the other way, yet in his haste to declare me stupid, he neglected to provide any proof. Just more blustering.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 6:29:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi Yea, I am sure this women lacked the essential manhood to take on 3 men on her own. And of course it wasn't about self-defense. I am sure those 3 fine young men were only there to make sure she was sleeping well. They couldn't have had anything bad in mind when they came in her house. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-woman-shoots-at-3-intruders-1-in-custody-2-on-run but keep pretending you know everything about how people click. It is amusing to watch you bluster on. A woman with a gun in the house is statistically more likely to have it taken from her and used on her. Single-example click-bait articles may give you a warm fuzzy feeling, but the harsh statistical reality is that guns in houses = more dead women. Christ, people are depressingly stupid. I would imagine if that were true these boards would be flooded with links proving guns are actually putting women in more danger. But hang on to your delusions, like I said it's amusing to watch you bluster. Links, you say? From the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence: "A woman is far more likely to be the victim of a handgun homicide than to use a handgun in a justifiable homicide." "A study found that for every time a woman used a handgun to kill an intimate partner in self-defense, 83 women were murdered by an intimate partner with a handgun." "When a gun is in the house, an abused woman is 6 times more likely than other abused women to be killed." "Research indicates that firearms are the most frequently used weapon in domestic violence homicides." Source From Harvard Injury Control Research Center, Harvard School of Public Health: "Across developed nations, where guns are more available, there are more homicides of women. The United States has the most firearms and U.S. women are far more likely to be homicide victims than women in other developed countries." "Women in states with many guns have elevated rates of unintentional gun deaths, suicides and homicide, particularly firearm suicides and firearm homicides." Source "We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime; other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns." "We found that firearms are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense." Source "The evidence is overwhelming for the fact that a gun in the home is a risk factor for completed suicide and that gun accidents are most likely to occur in homes with guns. There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes. On the benefit side, there are fewer studies, and there is no credible evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in." Source I hate to scream liar liar (at The Violence Policy Center at the top of her links, not Kalico) but the Violence Policy Center, VPC, should stand for Virtual Propaganda Center. The stats quoted by the poster and her other links for that matter are just another version of the Brady Bunch lies, " a gun in the home is 43 times moire likely to be used to kill a family member than to ward off a criminal" blah blah blah ect ect. It's statistical gamesmanship and a baldfaced lie. http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/01/why_does_the_anti-gun_camp_need_to_lie.html Josh Sugarman, the founder of the VPC is a self admitted liar. "Assault weapons – just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms – are a new topic. The weapons’ menacing looks, coupled with the public’s confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons – anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun – can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/394727/why-gun-control-advocates-lie-about-guns-charles-c-w-cooke All one has to do is Google Violence Policy Center and you'll come up with crap loads of links pointing to lie after lie from this gun control advocacy organization.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 6:49:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz This is why I post a 'CRIME FREE ZONE' sign on my property and I encourage everyone to do the same. I would encourage all the anti gun people here in the US to post a 'GUN FREE HOME' sign on their property.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 7:07:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Someone (they oppose the use of firearms for self defense) in another thread argues that if self defense allows you to shoot and kill someone it allows you to (when unarmed) to continue beating a helpless attacker until the are dead. Does anyone else see hypocrisy in this. No, I actually think it throws into sharp relief the inevitable consequences of believing that citizens should carry guns for "self-defense". Guns aren't about self-defense. Guns are about power. Americans are addicted to guns because you're weak-minded, pathetic, pitiful excuses for men who need a weapon to bolster your sense of personal power. Because you lack the essential manhood and masculine approach to the world which gives you that sense of personal power - a personal power based upon your capability, self-belief and approach to life. The gun makes you feel powerful and you're psychologically addicted to that feeling. That's why you fight tooth and nail to keep your guns - because your entire identity and self-worth is tied up in your possession of a weapon. Without that weapon you know full well you'll feel like a lesser man... not realising of course, that you already are a lesser man. All of the debate about gun rights is just a smokescreen to cover your fear of having your crutch taken away from you. I hardly know where to begin with this load of crap. There may be some who are such as you describe but by and large your description doesn't apply to the vast majority of gun owners. As for myself and also from first hand knowledge of others, many of us were introduced to guns when we were kids. We went hunting with our dad's and we're gifted our first shotguns at anywhere from 8 to 12 years of age. No one I know of had any type of psychological addiction. It wasn't until much later in life when these crooked political types started spouting off with their draconian gun control agenda and all the lies to go along with it that we started beating our chests. Gun grabber politicians are the ones with the addiction. They're addicted to gun control because they're weak-minded, pathetic, pitiful excuses for men who need an agenda to bolster their political power and the power of liberal democrats. You're party right about one thing though "guns are about power". Maybe that's why the founders had the foresight to write the Second Amendment into the Constitution as to not give a monopoly on all the firepower to the government.

Kaliko -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 7:28:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin All one has to do is Google Violence Policy Center and you'll come up with crap loads of links pointing to lie after lie from this gun control advocacy organization. The Violence Policy Center does clearly have its own agenda, yes. So like anything along those lines, no matter the topic, I agree it should all be taken with a healthy grain of salt. However, there were other sources cited (National Institute of Justice/U.S. Department of Justice,) and the bulk of my links were from the Harvard School of Public Health. Regardless, I actually don't have a stake in this at all. I don't have any issue either for or against having a gun for self defense. But clearly, there are statistics and studies out there to prove the point that women are not safer for having a gun. (It's kind of an interesting journey to follow the sources - even of possibly biased claims, and then follow their sources, and then follow theirs, etc. The truth is out there.) I also tried to find studies conducted by an unbiased source (i.e. not the National Shooting Sports Foundation, etc.) to prove the opposite - that women are safer with a gun. If someone can point me to that source, I'm happy to see it. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee And yes, women are most likely to be killed by an intimate partner. That does not mean she should not also have protection from home invaders. Now, I admit it. I haven't read through all 50 some-odd pages of the thread, so perhaps I'm a little off topic. But...yes, I agree that she wouldn't have the gun as protection against home invaders. But from what I can see, the statistics show that instances of guns used as an actual defense in home invasion are very small in number. So would that small number of times a gun is actually used in a home invasion outweigh the larger risk of having a gun in the house used against a woman? Nnanji says that women are much safer armed and fighting back. I have learned that all my life, so I believe it without question. But just because we are safer armed and fighting back at that particular time, in that particular instance, it doesn't seem to mean that we are safer in general because we possess a gun. It seems that the risk of our gun being used against us at some point is greater than the risk of becoming a victim in a confrontation when a gun might have helped us.

Kaliko -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 7:31:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz This is why I post a 'CRIME FREE ZONE' sign on my property and I encourage everyone to do the same. I would encourage all the anti gun people here in the US to post a 'GUN FREE HOME' sign on their property. I would be happy to, right next to my "BEWARE OF ATTACK DOGS" sign. :)

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 7:55:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalico Nnanji says that women are much safer armed and fighting back. I have learned that all my life, so I believe it without question. But just because we are safer armed and fighting back at that particular time, in that particular instance, it doesn't seem to mean that we are safer in general because we possess a gun. It seems that the risk of our gun being used against us at some point is greater than the risk of becoming a victim in a confrontation when a gun might have helped us. I believe the statistics on this are misleading. And you're probably right that it may be difficult to find a neutral source to support either side of the equation. I think the truth can be found in what can be proven or disproven. But one thing you'll find contained in the stats where a gun in the home is used against a family member or someone they know, is that drugs and / or alcohol factor into it the majority of those times. I would venture to say that if you have a gun in the home and there are no alcoholics or drug dealers, you won't have a problem.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 8:07:14 AM)
quote: Original: Kalico Now, I admit it. I haven't read through all 50 some-odd pages of the thread, so perhaps I'm a little off topic. You're not even close to being off topic. Around 25 - 30 of these pages devo!ved into a self defense tactical discussion revolving around one of those Rambo types who claims he can shoot the toe off a man who is rapidly running towards him at the distance of 25 yards You might find some of it amusing. Oh GAWD.........I probably started it all over again.

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 9:52:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: ifmaz This is why I post a 'CRIME FREE ZONE' sign on my property and I encourage everyone to do the same. I would encourage all the anti gun people here in the US to post a 'GUN FREE HOME' sign on their property. I would be happy to, right next to my "BEWARE OF ATTACK DOGS" sign. :) I would put crime free zone next to forget the Rottweiler, beware of owner sign

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 4:30:38 PM)
ORIGINAL: Nnanji This is a response for this quote and the one above it. I know from reading things like Watership Down that people who live in the rabbit warren hate those who don't. Perhaps you should stop reading fiction about rabbits and try reality. I really don't think a European, that has been conditioned to a feudal society being property, Have you ever read a history book written for someone beyond the fifth grade? can understand American freedom. So, I don't take your hate personally. No one hates you we just think you are ignorant beyond belief. I understand it's a sickness. The paranoia you project obviously is a sickness. As I type this I have a gun in my pocket. Good idea, the boogy man is just outside the door. I don't expect that if I need it, which I probably never will, that calling a Cop to come and protect me will bring an equivalent outcome to protecting myself. Yet, that is not why I carry a gun. I'm perfectly willing to fend for myself without one. The reason I carry one is because every peer reviewed study shows that the more people who do carry a gun makes it safer for women and children. Yet you never cite these peer reviewed studies that exist only in your mind.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 4:33:54 PM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD All of that is no more than a leftest myth that many of you have swallowed hook, line and sinker. Yet the cites you claim to refute this are sorely lacking...why is that? It also follows the "high noon" syndrome of people who are either afraid or unwilling to defend themselves Life is not a movie script as you seem to believe. grasp any excuse they can find to claim a serious flaw in those who do so that they can look in the mirror. You were "packin" and got punked for your lunch money...how did that happen...were you too skeird to pull your roscoe and shoot it out with the bad guy? I

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 4:38:10 PM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD That myth is based on a mid 90's CDC study that was so biased and flawed that it counted weapons brought into the home as a gun in the home. No credible study has those result, however the FBI stats show that forevery firearm used to commit a crime at least 4 are used to prevent them. You keep saying that shit but have never felt the compunction to actually validate it. Why?

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 4:40:10 PM)
ORIGINAL: thishereboi I knew a guy down in florida who broke into homes for a living. He tried to make sure that no one was home when he broke in and hated the thought of having to confront someone. So I will have to give him that one point. However, the one time someone was there, he pulled a knife and stabbed the guy 8 times before running away. I guess the fact that he would have preferred an empty building didn't help the property owner a bit. You know a guy in florida who is a criminal and you did not trun him in...doesn't that make you an accessory?

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 4:45:27 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Gun grabber politicians are the ones with the addiction. They're addicted to gun control because they're weak-minded, pathetic, pitiful excuses for men who need an agenda to bolster their political power and the power of liberal democrats. Except the most onerous gun control law "brady bill" was created and pimped into being by republicrats. You're party right about one thing though "guns are about power". Maybe that's why the founders had the foresight to write the Second Amendment into the Constitution as to not give a monopoly on all the firepower to the government. The 2nd ammendment was put into the constitution so the slave owners could control their slaves. If the slave owner did not have guns and the militia to keep the slaves at work which of them would have shown up for work?

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/30/2016 4:47:12 PM)
ORIGINAL: Nnanji Peer reviewed studies show that women are much safer armed and fighting back. Yet you never cite these "peer reviewed" studies [8\|] Jesus you are phoquing stupid.

Page: << < prev 55 56 [57] 58 59 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625