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RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/28/2014 10:18:08 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The silly contraceptive stuff? I think Hobby Lobby and the nuns should have ben laughed out of court. Corporations can't have religions.


Or the challenges that are coming. Most on the Left will say that SCOTUS has already ruled the ACA is constitutional, so that's the end of it. It's not.

Are you opposed to going through a metal detector to get into a public courthouse?

How about slavery? Roe v Wade? The 24th amendment?

I think going through a metal detector to get into a PUBLIC courthouse is a violation of my right against unreasonable search and seizure, and my second amendment rights.


Whether entering through a metal detector or not in a public courthouse, is well off this topic. Please make another thread if you wish to peruse this topic...

I usually enter court with my normal suit, and people have problems with it. Cant understand why.....


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/28/2014 1:55:27 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The silly contraceptive stuff? I think Hobby Lobby and the nuns should have ben laughed out of court. Corporations can't have religions.


Or the challenges that are coming. Most on the Left will say that SCOTUS has already ruled the ACA is constitutional, so that's the end of it. It's not.

I haven't seen any that covered new ground. Most were the equivalent of children holding their breath till they turn blue sort of tantrums.

quote:

Are you opposed to going through a metal detector to get into a public courthouse?

No. It is an everyone thing and they don't actually physically search you.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/28/2014 2:29:50 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The silly contraceptive stuff? I think Hobby Lobby and the nuns should have ben laughed out of court. Corporations can't have religions.

Or the challenges that are coming. Most on the Left will say that SCOTUS has already ruled the ACA is constitutional, so that's the end of it. It's not.

I haven't seen any that covered new ground. Most were the equivalent of children holding their breath till they turn blue sort of tantrums.
quote:

Are you opposed to going through a metal detector to get into a public courthouse?

No. It is an everyone thing and they don't actually physically search you.


Asking for you to show your ID is physically searching you and having to remove metal from your pockets before going through a detector isn't? And, how does requiring every voter show ID not an "everyone" thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Whether entering through a metal detector or not in a public courthouse, is well off this topic. Please make another thread if you wish to peruse this topic...


Sorry, Joether, but it's similar enough. Unreasonable search and seizure is being claimed. You are also griping that you are having to prove you aren't doing something illegal before exercising a right. I'm surprised you can't see the similarities to requirements to entry of a public courthouse.

I doubt that's true, though. You just don't want to have to defend anything that might show your prejudice.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/28/2014 2:45:50 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		But, in like fashion, voter id is an unconstitutional invasion of my right. (twice, at least).

_____________________________

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/28/2014 3:20:30 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The silly contraceptive stuff? I think Hobby Lobby and the nuns should have ben laughed out of court. Corporations can't have religions.

Or the challenges that are coming. Most on the Left will say that SCOTUS has already ruled the ACA is constitutional, so that's the end of it. It's not.

I haven't seen any that covered new ground. Most were the equivalent of children holding their breath till they turn blue sort of tantrums.
quote:

Are you opposed to going through a metal detector to get into a public courthouse?

No. It is an everyone thing and they don't actually physically search you.


Asking for you to show your ID is physically searching you and having to remove metal from your pockets before going through a detector isn't? And, how does requiring every voter show ID not an "everyone" thing?

You do understand a metal detector is safety precaution, right? Our rights are more easily infringed over safety concerns.

The simple fact remains that coming up with a very restrictive ID requirement to vote is clearly a partisan attempt to restrict voting unless you can show there is a widespread problem that needs to be addressed.

Until then how about dealing with the actual abuses like the one that definitely changed the outcome of the 2000 Presidential election.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/28/2014 7:11:06 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Asking for you to show your ID is physically searching you and having to remove metal from your pockets before going through a detector isn't? And, how does requiring every voter show ID not an "everyone" thing?


Your talking about two entirely different situations. The first is a voting booth, the second a court house. In the first instance, one is protected against unreasonable search and seizure. In the second case (i.e. the courthouse) it is not unreasonable to search one's person through a metal detector for two good reasons: A ) Most weapons are metal (i.e. firearms), B ) There have been plenty of instances in which metal weapons have been used to injure/kill others in the courthouse. Also, a metal detector does not spot fake IDs; it detects metal....

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Whether entering through a metal detector or not in a public courthouse, is well off this topic. Please make another thread if you wish to peruse this topic...

Sorry, Joether, but it's similar enough. Unreasonable search and seizure is being claimed. You are also griping that you are having to prove you aren't doing something illegal before exercising a right. I'm surprised you can't see the similarities to requirements to entry of a public courthouse.

I doubt that's true, though. You just don't want to have to defend anything that might show your prejudice.


This topic, is about VOTER SUPRESSION THROUGH PHOTO ID LAWS, not what goes on at a courthouse. Unreasonable search and seizure as it applies to a POLLING STATION, not a courthouse. I am not griping about anything; simply stating that by law I don't have to show my Photo ID under the 4th amendment; if I was guilty of something, I would not need to say anything under the 5th amendment. But it is up to someone else to say: A ) I am not who I say I am, B ) I am not living where I stated I lived, or C ) A combination of 'A' and 'B'. The evidence on the table is that voter fraud is so completely low as not to be even a tiny factor in the election results at state and federal levels. Not one person, supporting such laws has shown actual evidence to back their argument up. However, people have noticed that these laws do nothing to increase voter turn out, but have a large factor on less turning out to vote. When only a small number of people vote, special interests win; when many vote, America wins.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/28/2014 7:34:47 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

So it's a strawman argument to ask why you need an ID to do damn near anything else important, and even a lot of things that aren't important at all, but not to cast your vote?

I didn't post the picture in response to a question--which, after all, isn't an argument anyway.

I posted it in response to a trollish effort to ascribe ludicrous positions to folks who disagreed with the poster.

_____________________________

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it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 4:59:38 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The silly contraceptive stuff? I think Hobby Lobby and the nuns should have ben laughed out of court. Corporations can't have religions.


Or the challenges that are coming. Most on the Left will say that SCOTUS has already ruled the ACA is constitutional, so that's the end of it. It's not.

I haven't seen any that covered new ground. Most were the equivalent of children holding their breath till they turn blue sort of tantrums.

quote:

Are you opposed to going through a metal detector to get into a public courthouse?

No. It is an everyone thing and they don't actually physically search you.




So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 5:50:31 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
The silly contraceptive stuff? I think Hobby Lobby and the nuns should have ben laughed out of court. Corporations can't have religions.


Or the challenges that are coming. Most on the Left will say that SCOTUS has already ruled the ACA is constitutional, so that's the end of it. It's not.

I haven't seen any that covered new ground. Most were the equivalent of children holding their breath till they turn blue sort of tantrums.

quote:

Are you opposed to going through a metal detector to get into a public courthouse?

No. It is an everyone thing and they don't actually physically search you.




So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched
One is reasonable. There have been shootings at courthouses. The other isn't. There have been almost no cases of people voting as someone else.

In this country we pass laws to fix actual problems.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 5/29/2014 5:51:04 AM >

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 7:23:17 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched

One is reasonable. There have been shootings at courthouses. The other isn't. There have been almost no cases of people voting as someone else.
In this country we pass laws to fix actual problems.

Both are reasonable, Ken.

I have never been involved in a shooting at a courthouse. Why is it reasonable that I am searched?

Have there been any laws made to protect a right?

Has there ever been any cases of voter fraud that an ID would have prevented?

To paraphrase government expansionists, "if we can protect just one vote..."


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 8:44:51 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The problem with the bulk of analogies presented as "logic" in these threads is completely ignoring and/or denying any sense of scale. To equate a murder with a voting violation as if the same principle ignores other data and principles, notably that murders are far more common and the results far more serious. It makes sense to take stronger measures to ensure against them, especially in high-risk locations, like a courtroom, and where the lack of those precautions would interfere with the justice system.

No doubt, the next post will be "So what you're saying is" and going on to insert something dramatically removed from anything I said.

That's why debate goes on pointlessly here.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/29/2014 8:46:03 AM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 8:56:59 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched

One is reasonable. There have been shootings at courthouses. The other isn't. There have been almost no cases of people voting as someone else.
In this country we pass laws to fix actual problems.


Both are reasonable, Ken.

I have never been involved in a shooting at a courthouse. Why is it reasonable that I am searched?

Have there been any laws made to protect a right?

Has there ever been any cases of voter fraud that an ID would have prevented?

To paraphrase government expansionists, "if we can protect just one vote..."


You are grossly wrong. inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced.

There is simply no evidence that people are voting under false ID's so there is no problem to solve. The law is a blatantly partisan ploy to keep Democratic demographics away from the polls.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 5/29/2014 8:57:57 AM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 10:54:24 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched

One is reasonable. There have been shootings at courthouses. The other isn't. There have been almost no cases of people voting as someone else.
In this country we pass laws to fix actual problems.


Both are reasonable, Ken.

I have never been involved in a shooting at a courthouse. Why is it reasonable that I am searched?

Have there been any laws made to protect a right?

Has there ever been any cases of voter fraud that an ID would have prevented?

To paraphrase government expansionists, "if we can protect just one vote..."


You are grossly wrong. inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced.

There is simply no evidence that people are voting under false ID's so there is no problem to solve. The law is a blatantly partisan ploy to keep Democratic demographics away from the polls.



well maybe the question should be why is it so hard to democrats to get id's. It can't be because they are poor since you have to have id to get medicaid. So what is the problem? Even your aunt managed to get a copy and while you told us it was difficult, I find it hard to believe it would have been an easier for her if she was a republican. So why is this such a hard thing for you guys.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 2:36:06 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
The problem with the bulk of analogies presented as "logic" in these threads is completely ignoring and/or denying any sense of scale. To equate a murder with a voting violation as if the same principle ignores other data and principles, notably that murders are far more common and the results far more serious. It makes sense to take stronger measures to ensure against them, especially in high-risk locations, like a courtroom, and where the lack of those precautions would interfere with the justice system.
No doubt, the next post will be "So what you're saying is" and going on to insert something dramatically removed from anything I said.
That's why debate goes on pointlessly here.


"lack of those precautions would interfere with the justice system"

I would agree that their lack could interfere with the justice system.

Citizens are the only ones that have the right to vote. If we don't require ID, how do we know that right isn't being interfered with?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 2:38:52 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		How do we know that anyone is not committing a civil or criminal violation at any time? How do we know someone is keeping the law?



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 2:39:04 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You are grossly wrong. inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced.
There is simply no evidence that people are voting under false ID's so there is no problem to solve. The law is a blatantly partisan ploy to keep Democratic demographics away from the polls.


"inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced"

Care to explain that to an aborted fetus? Didn't think so.

Why did SCOTUS uphold Indiana's Voter ID law?




_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 2:41:28 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Care to explain that to an aborted fetus? Didn't think so.


We the People. Thought so. There is a reason it is called a fetus. Fetus ain't people, even though under the nutsackers, corporations are, my friend.

Get them fetuses a voter id so we know. guess that is what you are monkey fucking around with here, the concept of rights as concerns our constitution.

Remember, you are either a strict constitutionalist as you bray here all the time without having a handle on the constitution, or you are full of shit as a christmas goose, which I will leave as an exercise to the reader.



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 5/29/2014 2:44:42 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 3:19:25 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
So you don't have a problem with having to empty your pockets and go through a metal detector but you think showing your id is being searched

One is reasonable. There have been shootings at courthouses. The other isn't. There have been almost no cases of people voting as someone else.
In this country we pass laws to fix actual problems.


Both are reasonable, Ken.

I have never been involved in a shooting at a courthouse. Why is it reasonable that I am searched?

Have there been any laws made to protect a right?

Has there ever been any cases of voter fraud that an ID would have prevented?

To paraphrase government expansionists, "if we can protect just one vote..."


You are grossly wrong. inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced.

There is simply no evidence that people are voting under false ID's so there is no problem to solve. The law is a blatantly partisan ploy to keep Democratic demographics away from the polls.



well maybe the question should be why is it so hard to democrats to get id's. It can't be because they are poor since you have to have id to get medicaid. So what is the problem? Even your aunt managed to get a copy and while you told us it was difficult, I find it hard to believe it would have been an easier for her if she was a republican. So why is this such a hard thing for you guys.

The question is why should it be needed? Why make voting harder? Until you can show a compelling state reason then you can't change a system that works just fine.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 3:21:24 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
You are grossly wrong. inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced.
There is simply no evidence that people are voting under false ID's so there is no problem to solve. The law is a blatantly partisan ploy to keep Democratic demographics away from the polls.


"inconveniencing people to protect lives is one thing because lives cannot be replaced"

Care to explain that to an aborted fetus? Didn't think so.

I'm sure you're not so clueless as to think a fetus is a complete person.


quote:

Why did SCOTUS uphold Indiana's Voter ID law?
because it was not a transparently partisan attempt to prevent Democrats from voting.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Oops. Voter ID advocate Asa Hutchinson forgets Vote... - 5/29/2014 3:48:45 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The question is why should it be needed? Why make voting harder? Until you can show a compelling state reason then you can't change a system that works just fine.



You are the one who keeps claiming it's to stop democrats from voting. If this is true then please explain why it's harder for a democrat to get an id than a republican. And as to changing the system, you already have to show id to vote here and it isn't a big issue.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 60
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