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[Poll]

Which is more important?


Freedom
  50% (12)
Wisdom
  50% (12)


Total Votes : 24
(last vote on : 6/4/2014 12:39:15 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 10:16:02 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 10:19:00 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I'm wise enough not to buy into false dilemmas, and I'm free enough not to have to choose.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 10:55:44 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Without wisdom you can not make proper use of freedom
Without freedom you can not avail yourself of your wisdom
A free man (person) must be wise.
If you mean as national policy freedom is better as the people can make up for the governments stupidity

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 11:32:19 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Except that it's the idiot people who elect that government . . .

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 11:58:23 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Without wisdom you can not make proper use of freedom
Without freedom you can not avail yourself of your wisdom
A free man (person) must be wise.
If you mean as national policy freedom is better as the people can make up for the governments stupidity


Very good points.

I would say that without wisdom, freedom allows for bad decision making. Without freedom, could wisdom exist? I would argue that good wisdom makes for not just enjoying freedom more deeply, but establishes good government.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 1:00:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Without wisdom you can not make proper use of freedom
Without freedom you can not avail yourself of your wisdom
A free man (person) must be wise.
If you mean as national policy freedom is better as the people can make up for the governments stupidity


Very good points.

I would say that without wisdom, freedom allows for bad decision making. Without freedom, could wisdom exist? I would argue that good wisdom makes for not just enjoying freedom more deeply, but establishes good government.

I think we agree that we need both.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 1:06:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we agree that we need both.

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.

K.



(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 1:53:24 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we agree that we need both.

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.

K.






I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 2:45:27 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether, [Removed a change in member's name]


I would say that without wisdom, freedom allows for bad decision making. Without freedom, could wisdom exist? I would argue that good wisdom makes for not just enjoying freedom more deeply, but establishes good government.

Can I get a "Duh!"



< Message edited by Moderator3 -- 5/26/2014 9:16:07 AM >

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 3:15:57 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".

You're only truly free when your imagination outranks facts.

K.


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 4:02:05 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".

You're only truly free when your imagination outranks facts.

K.




Ask Fido about that, he knows all about "Freedom"

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 6:25:24 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'm wise enough not to buy into false dilemmas, and I'm free enough not to have to choose.



This

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 7:25:48 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we agree that we need both.

I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.

K.




Perhaps but I wouldn't ask such questions due to my well know aversion to acrimonious debate.
Sarcasm for off

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 10:55:51 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false

There are several words that could be applied to denying historical fact and promoting one's febrile imaginings as truth instead, but "wisdom" isn't among them.


Why not stick to the topic, instead of taking something...WAY OUT OF CONTEXT...?


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Which is more important? - 5/22/2014 10:57:55 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I think we should ask what he means by "wisdom".
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


I think we should ask what he means by "freedom".

You're only truly free when your imagination outranks facts.


Now who would accuse you have having an imagination or facts?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Which is more important? - 5/23/2014 5:39:21 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


Why not stick to the topic, instead of taking something...WAY OUT OF CONTEXT...?

I do apologize. You're right. Wisdom has nothing to do with your poll.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 5/23/2014 6:24:37 AM >

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Which is more important? - 5/23/2014 10:04:26 AM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,


Interesting question to ponder. I suppose at one time, when humans existed in a state of nature, we were living in total freedom, but ostensibly had to develop the wisdom to build a civilization at some point. I think that we're wise enough to know that total freedom is not an option. Perhaps true wisdom comes from knowing where the proper balance should be in a given society, as to how much freedom is "too much" or "not enough" or "just right."


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Which is more important? - 5/24/2014 9:05:29 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

my view is based on wisdom. Yours is based on modern day historical facts... My view is not false


Why not stick to the topic, instead of taking something...WAY OUT OF CONTEXT...?

I do apologize. You're right. Wisdom has nothing to do with your poll.


Your definition of Wisdom seems to be different from most peoples....

Could you elaborate on your definition of the word?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Which is more important? - 5/24/2014 9:17:36 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
If you were forced to choose one quality or the other for America?

A seemingly easy question,,,,,

Interesting question to ponder. I suppose at one time, when humans existed in a state of nature, we were living in total freedom, but ostensibly had to develop the wisdom to build a civilization at some point. I think that we're wise enough to know that total freedom is not an option. Perhaps true wisdom comes from knowing where the proper balance should be in a given society, as to how much freedom is "too much" or "not enough" or "just right."


Total freedom is anarchy, right? Where as total wisdom would lead a people to a perfect government. If a good people were to form a good society/government to say, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, good wisdom would be a requirement. The reason tyrannical governments never work well, is the absence of good, healthy freedoms. But to have those good, healthy freedoms, takes wisdom. But in order to obtain that wisdom, one must have freedom to experiment on productive and destructive moments. It may sound like I'm arguing both sides here, but I would favor wisdom over freedom. Since wisdom gives good freedoms, while acknowledging what destructive freedoms can do.

(in reply to Zonie63)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Which is more important? - 5/24/2014 1:57:34 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Total freedom is anarchy, right? Where as total wisdom would lead a people to a perfect government.

Why would a people possessed of total wisdom require government?

K.


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 20
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