RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives

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Zonie63 -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 7:37:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 FR I suppose it's possible that this murderer may have been influenced by the Men's Rights Movement, although he was clearly troubled and needed help. The video was definitely disturbing (reposted on the CNN site). One of the fathers of the victims blamed the NRA. I don't know what kind of home life or upbringing this person had, although that's usually a good place to start to checking to find out what made someone turn out that way. One thing that struck me about the video is that this kid was pissed off because he was struggling to be accepted by a crowd that didn't accept him. maybe he wasn't accepted cuz he was a narcissistic creep and he came across as that.. I expect he was miffed cuz the hot blondes didn't find him attractive and he wasn't interested in the Plain Jane's.. he calls himself the "supreme gentleman" but gentlemen don't go shooting up a campus.. I sometimes wonder just how much kids are taught how to cope or how to have basic social skills. I'm a bit older now, so I don't know how it is these days, but I remember how some kids used to think it was the end of the world to not be accepted by the so-called "in crowd" or the "cool kids." There's peer pressure, as well as pressures from family - and even pressure from popular culture itself. I don't know if that creates the sense of narcissistic entitlement which seems to have been going through this kid's mind, but I would think it's a possibility. After reading a bit more about this kid's family background (separated from his birth mother from Malaysia, born in London, father in show business, step-mother from Morocco) a lot of rootlessness and family instability seems evident.

angelikaJ -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 7:40:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Last night a tragically clueless young man killed 6 people and then himself at UC Santa Barbara. Apparently due to his involvement in the men's rights movement. He posted a truly disturbing video to youtube complaining that he was still a virgin and that it was the fault of the women and not at all that he was an incredibly creepy guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbv5Vpa-B-0 No, this was the case yet again, of untreated mental illness being a big part in this event. The Men's Rights Movement had nil to do with it, anymore than Catcher in the Rye had to do with the killing of John Lennon or Jodie Foster was responsible for the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan.

tj444 -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 10:29:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 FR I suppose it's possible that this murderer may have been influenced by the Men's Rights Movement, although he was clearly troubled and needed help. The video was definitely disturbing (reposted on the CNN site). One of the fathers of the victims blamed the NRA. I don't know what kind of home life or upbringing this person had, although that's usually a good place to start to checking to find out what made someone turn out that way. One thing that struck me about the video is that this kid was pissed off because he was struggling to be accepted by a crowd that didn't accept him. maybe he wasn't accepted cuz he was a narcissistic creep and he came across as that.. I expect he was miffed cuz the hot blondes didn't find him attractive and he wasn't interested in the Plain Jane's.. he calls himself the "supreme gentleman" but gentlemen don't go shooting up a campus.. I sometimes wonder just how much kids are taught how to cope or how to have basic social skills. I'm a bit older now, so I don't know how it is these days, but I remember how some kids used to think it was the end of the world to not be accepted by the so-called "in crowd" or the "cool kids." There's peer pressure, as well as pressures from family - and even pressure from popular culture itself. I don't know if that creates the sense of narcissistic entitlement which seems to have been going through this kid's mind, but I would think it's a possibility. After reading a bit more about this kid's family background (separated from his birth mother from Malaysia, born in London, father in show business, step-mother from Morocco) a lot of rootlessness and family instability seems evident. I don't think all that many kids today are narcissistic, but imo this guy was.. the way he talks about himself in his vid.. I think he wanted to date the hot chicks.. good looking people tend to date other good looking people.. imo many men think they can date women that aren't their attractiveness match, not even close.. a girl that's a 9 isn't gonna date a guy that's a 3.. There are exceptions, I suppose, never could understand Sandra Bullock being married to that Jesse dude who imo was very unattractive.. But that's why some guys make tons of money instead to compensate for their less attractive appearance.. then they can get hot chicks/gold diggers.. Some guys just don't get that they are aiming too high and get all butt hurt & bitter cuz of it, to me that's what happened to this guy.. except he took his butt hurtness to an extreme.. Kids that think its the end of the world to not be accepted into whatever clique they want to be a part of are stupid followers... that is how kids get into all sorts of trouble, like getting drunk, doing drugs, etc.. I rejected that shite when I was a kid, before I was even a teenager.. imo parents need to instill individuality in their kids, teach them that they don't need to sell themselves out to join some group.. teach them to be their own person.. and that if others cant accept them as they are then they are not worth having as a friend or anyone to associate with.. jmo..

TheHeretic -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 10:40:41 AM)
General reply I guess people are finally figuring out it's pointless to blame the gun, huh? Now we'll find whatever outlet a killer had, and blame that instead. Oh if only the government was to regulate every idea that could be talked about, nothing bad would ever happen...

Musicmystery -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 10:45:04 AM)
This whine gets old. No one's taking that position. Though since you bring it up, drive-by multiple knife-ings are substantially more difficult. Happy now?

Tkman117 -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 10:47:25 AM)
Pretty pathetic slippery slope argument Heretic. Maybe you should re-read the whole anti-gun argument. If two kids are fighting and one kid is using a big stick and the other isn't, what do you do? Make it easier for the other kid to find a stick himself? Or take away the stick from the one who first had it? Humans are extremely childish, in many cases we haven't grown out of old tendency as kids, so how is it "unfair" to treat humans in general as children in cases where lives are concerned? Use a slipper slope argument all you want, the anti-gun argument is simply that. To remove tools which would cause extreme damage to human life and prosperity.

TheHeretic -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 10:51:54 AM)
Drive-by knifings are tricky, I'll agree, Muse (maybe with a machete or sword, and an enthusiastic partner), but running them down with the car works just fine.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 10:51:56 AM)
Well, since you brought up the well-worn subject, TH: "They talk about gun rights, what about Chris' right to live? When will this insanity stop?" - Richard Martinez, father of murdered student Christopher Michael-Martinez"

Musicmystery -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 10:54:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Drive-by knifings are tricky, I'll agree, Muse (maybe with a machete or sword, and an enthusiastic partner), but running them down with the car works just fine. Perhaps it's a sign of his mental illness that this didn't occur to him. Though it lacks the same je ne sais quoi as a rain of bullets.

TheHeretic -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 11:07:48 AM)
FR I'm not doing guns today, kids. Put your dinkies back in your pants. The OP wishes to assign the blame for this attack to an online community of guys who cannot get laid, and the niche industry that markets specialty products to them. The blame goes to the killer, and the guilt can be carried by the parent/s who raised such a miserable little shit The only awareness I have of the "men's rights movement" goes back to that name being used in relation to correcting injustices in the judicial system, largely dealing with the rights of fathers in divorce/custody cases. Great strides have been made in that, though the struggle isn't over.

TheHeretic -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 11:13:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Perhaps it's a sign of his mental illness that this didn't occur to him. He obviously had no concept of trying different approaches to problem solving. Personally, I've always figured that if I ever go on a killing spree, I'd do it in a hijacked 18-wheeler. A Peterbilt with a flatbed load of rebar would be ideal.

Zonie63 -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 11:57:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I don't think all that many kids today are narcissistic, but imo this guy was.. the way he talks about himself in his vid.. I think he wanted to date the hot chicks.. good looking people tend to date other good looking people.. imo many men think they can date women that aren't their attractiveness match, not even close.. a girl that's a 9 isn't gonna date a guy that's a 3.. There are exceptions, I suppose, never could understand Sandra Bullock being married to that Jesse dude who imo was very unattractive.. But that's why some guys make tons of money instead to compensate for their less attractive appearance.. then they can get hot chicks/gold diggers.. Some guys just don't get that they are aiming too high and get all butt hurt & bitter cuz of it, to me that's what happened to this guy.. except he took his butt hurtness to an extreme.. Yes, there was clearly a lot going on in this guy's head - some kind of extreme, twisted, amoral, nihilistic attitude driven by something more than just loneliness. Although thinking about the idea of a woman who is a 9 not dating a guy who is a 3, it made me think that a lot of guys may not actually know where they rate. A guy might be a 3 but thinks he's a 10, which is where some of that narcissism comes in. quote: Kids that think its the end of the world to not be accepted into whatever clique they want to be a part of are stupid followers... that is how kids get into all sorts of trouble, like getting drunk, doing drugs, etc.. I rejected that shite when I was a kid, before I was even a teenager.. imo parents need to instill individuality in their kids, teach them that they don't need to sell themselves out to join some group.. teach them to be their own person.. and that if others cant accept them as they are then they are not worth having as a friend or anyone to associate with.. jmo.. I rejected that stuff pretty early in life, too, but I also learned that I had to seek connections and social activities outside of the "fishbowl" that schools and neighborhoods tend to be. That's what a lot of "clique" nonsense seemed to boil down to in my eyes, striving for acceptance from the "big fish" inside a fishbowl - or a very tiny pond.

PeonForHer -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 12:37:06 PM)
quote: Although thinking about the idea of a woman who is a 9 not dating a guy who is a 3, it made me think that a lot of guys may not actually know where they rate. A guy might be a 3 but thinks he's a 10, which is where some of that narcissism comes in. I must admit, from the video, this kid seemed to have looks, anyway. He just didn't have the personality requirements.

Spiritedsub2 -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 12:49:34 PM)
I agree ^, I thought he looked just fine. If he couldn't get a single date in his brief adult life with that acceptable appearance, he must have really given off a bad vibe.

tj444 -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 12:52:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Although thinking about the idea of a woman who is a 9 not dating a guy who is a 3, it made me think that a lot of guys may not actually know where they rate. A guy might be a 3 but thinks he's a 10, which is where some of that narcissism comes in. I must admit, from the video, this kid seemed to have looks, anyway. He just didn't have the personality requirements. hmm.. maybe he was short.. that would be a pretty big negative in the rating dept.. or he wasn't on the football team (being on the football team can up a dude's rating to some women).. To me tho he sorta has a feminine or baby face? and what kinda chicks was he trying to date? even if he was a 5 or a 6, a girl that's a 10 is outta his league.. or maybe his best pick-up line was something like "hey baby, wanna fuck?".. a guys rating can drop fast if there is a creep factor coming across from the guy, which he does have listening to his vid, imo..

DaddySatyr -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 1:14:40 PM)
As an ugly mother-fucker (probably a "-1" to most), I have to say that I find the whole idea of assigning a numerical value to a human being quite enlightening. If it were a bunch of males, rating a female in such a fashion, the gyno-centrists would be completely foaming at the mouth. Rock on with your bad selves! As far as this (probably) mentally ill young man: it's a damned shame that someone that young needs to feel their life is already over. I wonder if the aforementioned "rating system" played into it, at all? But, the brass tacks of the situation are simple; a young man went on a killing spree and is now, dead. The universe loves justice. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

DomKen -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 2:28:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2 I agree ^, I thought he looked just fine. If he couldn't get a single date in his brief adult life with that acceptable appearance, he must have really given off a bad vibe. Didn't the video make that clear?

Zonie63 -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 3:16:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: Although thinking about the idea of a woman who is a 9 not dating a guy who is a 3, it made me think that a lot of guys may not actually know where they rate. A guy might be a 3 but thinks he's a 10, which is where some of that narcissism comes in. I must admit, from the video, this kid seemed to have looks, anyway. He just didn't have the personality requirements. hmm.. maybe he was short.. that would be a pretty big negative in the rating dept.. or he wasn't on the football team (being on the football team can up a dude's rating to some women).. To me tho he sorta has a feminine or baby face? and what kinda chicks was he trying to date? even if he was a 5 or a 6, a girl that's a 10 is outta his league.. or maybe his best pick-up line was something like "hey baby, wanna fuck?".. a guys rating can drop fast if there is a creep factor coming across from the guy, which he does have listening to his vid, imo.. I just checked, and UC Santa Barbara doesn't have a football team. The only two NCAA national championships they hold is 1979 Men's Water Polo and 2006 Men's Soccer. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Santa_Barbara_Gauchos) They're not in the Pac-12, but in the Big West Conference. But they also have a club surfing team which has won 12 national championships. So, I would imagine there'd be a lot of surfer dudes around that place.

BecomingV -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 5:05:04 PM)
Peon, your quote made me cry. (and I'm stoic Irish American... we don't cry. Peon, best debate ever! Like a hole-in-one, or a one-punch knockout. If you were American, I'd say, "Peon for President!" OP - Watching the video gave me chills. That poor kid was sooooo dis-associated. The hatred in his eyes and in his voice and in his breath, was real. I don't know... didn't anyone else see a kid suffering the depths of endurable human loneliness? And, his teen brain tricked him into thinking that it would always be this way. Look, he died a killer. Those poor victims - my hearts go out to the families. Wow, I'm too emotional right now. Need to go center myself before I write more here. quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Well, since you brought up the well-worn subject, TH: "They talk about gun rights, what about Chris' right to live? When will this insanity stop?" - Richard Martinez, father of murdered student Christopher Michael-Martinez"

deathtothepixies -> RE: The Men's rights movement claims 7 lives (5/25/2014 5:17:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr But, the brass tacks of the situation are simple; a young man went on a killing spree and is now, dead. The universe loves justice. [/color] Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me? fuck me, I am not seeing a whole lot of justice for the other dead people, the innocent dead people. Your universe is pretty fucked up

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