RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/26/2014 9:10:12 AM

FelineRanger

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DaddySatyr, one quick question: Have you ever been in combat? One member of my family had the job of debriefing solders who were out in the field. Time and again, he was told that the guys were taking fire from people who claimed to be friends, that it was common for pregnant women to fire on them, and even for children to be carrying live grenades. I recently worked with a guy who did multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and he had similar stories. The guy I worked with and the guys that my family member debriefed all said the same thing, "We had no idea who was shooting at us so the only real choice we had was to kill everybody in order to keep ourselves safe."

As for Calley taking the fall for My Lai in spite of claims or evidence that he had orders from higher up, it doesn't surprise me. If memory serves me correctly, nobody above any enlisted ranks were prosecuted for crimes at Abu Ghraib either, in spite of repeated claims that they had specific instructions and orders to commit the acts they were prosecuted for.

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/26/2014 9:53:58 AM

thompsonx

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I served in the army, and I saw combat.

Lots of people did.

I find it funny that people who have never been in the military or been under fire have such an easy way of saying American soldiers are baby killers and murderers.

How about the ones who have?

Then you have the people who take that bullshit as gospel and make stupid statements about war crimes and other crap that they know nothing about.

That would be an ignorant,unsubstantiated opinion. You have no clue as to what and why others form their opinions.

In case you haven't noticed, soldiers have been tried and convicted for war crimes in both the Iraq and Afghanistan theater of operations.

How many of their officers have been prosecuted and convicted of ordering soldiers to do so?

I am going to lay it out for you.

Yes we try to keep collateral casualties to a minimum. However,

Not according to the facts.

if I were leading a patrol and started taking heavy fire from a building or group of buildings, you better believe I am calling for support, be it air, chopper, gun ship or arty.

Only if it is within the roe...other wise no.

If you are in charge, be you an NCO or officer, you have two jobs. 1) Achieve your objective and 2) Keep you guys alive. And if a 14 year old kid is popping at you with an AK47, I am not going to find his parents to punish his ass.

Roe allows for return fire in all but the most convoluted cases.

Now someone brought up Mai Lai and Cam Ne.

Here is a statement by a man who was there.

I have no first hand knowledge of mai lai.

Here is a further report.

Morley Safer failed to report the full number of marine casualties, or anything about the fact that the Marines operating in the area had received fire from the Cam Ne village complex.

That is not exactly correct.

And the poster who brought it up will surely claim other wise.

Perhaps he was there?

As for Mai Lai, Calley got convicted in a court martial and the case was forgotten. There is more to that story than what came out in the trail. For one thing, Calley claimed he was following orders, yet none of his superiors were brought up on charges.

Both calley and medina got a propriatary slap on the wrist for mass murder. While no one higher even recieved a cautionary glance.

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/27/2014 2:17:14 AM

MrRodgers

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Look this whole debate has gone off track. Something as solemn as Memorial Day should remind us that the people should take to the streets to prevent wars of aggression as too many have been...from ever happening again.

I look at it this way when objectively judging all war history...when war is made, that means war crimes. All too often, war itself...IS a crime.

Shall I go down the list ?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 5/27/2014 2:19:14 AM >

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/27/2014 12:51:50 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Look this whole debate has gone off track. Something as solemn as Memorial Day should remind us that the people should take to the streets to prevent wars of aggression as too many have been...from ever happening again.

I look at it this way when objectively judging all war history...when war is made, that means war crimes. All too often, war itself...IS a crime.

Shall I go down the list ?

All wars are fought so we can fuck their women and steal their [Removed reference to something not allowed on site.]

< Message edited by Moderator3 -- 5/27/2014 12:54:22 PM >

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/29/2014 5:18:10 PM

ServeBlackMeat43

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Really? Did our last war contribute to our "freedom"? Or did it give us torture, the Patriot Act, comprehensive spying on Americans, executive power to summarily execute people without any due process...You'll have to excuse my subdued celebration of the US war machine.

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/29/2014 5:56:05 PM

CobaltRose

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ServeBlackMeat43

Really? Did our last war contribute to our "freedom"? Or did it give us torture, the Patriot Act, comprehensive spying on Americans, executive power to summarily execute people without any due process...You'll have to excuse my subdued celebration of the US war machine.

Yeah to me this war is sending soldiers to die for an unjust cause. We should be protecting our own. If a place doesnt want to be protected, why should we help them? Why help those who dont want help.

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/29/2014 6:05:45 PM

thompsonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServeBlackMeat43

Really? Did our last war contribute to our "freedom"? Or did it give us torture, the Patriot Act, comprehensive spying on Americans, executive power to summarily execute people without any due process...You'll have to excuse my subdued celebration of the US war machine.

Yeah to me this war is sending soldiers to die for an unjust cause. We should be protecting our own. If a place doesnt want to be protected, why should we help them? Why help those who dont want help.

We are not there to help we are there to fuck their women and steal their shit.

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/29/2014 6:16:04 PM

CobaltRose

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

quote:

ORIGINAL: ServeBlackMeat43

Really? Did our last war contribute to our "freedom"? Or did it give us torture, the Patriot Act, comprehensive spying on Americans, executive power to summarily execute people without any due process...You'll have to excuse my subdued celebration of the US war machine.

Yeah to me this war is sending soldiers to die for an unjust cause. We should be protecting our own. If a place doesnt want to be protected, why should we help them? Why help those who dont want help.

We are not there to help we are there to fuck their women and steal their shit.

Wow, not everyone is an asshole like you think. I think some soldiers think they are there to help, and try to do humanitarian acts that are ruined by the "big people". I mean, who knows, maybe the government is threatening to torture their loved ones if they dont follow orders. A soldier is willing to lay their own life on the line, but the life of a loved one? And dont say the government wouldnt do that.

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RE: Memorial Day and War Crimes - 5/30/2014 11:14:17 AM

vincentML

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quote:

I find it funny that people who have never been in the military or been under fire have such an easy way of saying American soldiers are baby killers and murderers.

Then you have the people who take that bullshit as gospel and make stupid statements about war crimes and other crap that they know nothing about.

Maybe they wish to say the entire war was a crime by our nation and are afraid to express it in that fashion on such a solemn day. Maybe America's commitment to wars in Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan, and Iraq were crimes committed on a national level. And perhaps lives lost and bodies mangled in those wars were in vain. Perhaps Memorial Day should serve as a day of contemplation of what our leaders have gotten us into. Maybe we need to have that discussion instead of a barbecue at the end of each May and again on Veterans Day. Waddya think?

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