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Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 7:33:49 AM

cloudboy

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The idea of “corporate personhood” has been in the news repeatedly in the past few years. Between Mitt Romney’s infamous “Corporations are people, my friend” moment at the 2012 Iowa State Fair to the Citizens United ruling, where the U.S. Supreme Court declared that for the purpose of electoral donations, corporations are in fact people, it has been a hotly debated topic.

That logic can be extended into homicide cases, said Jennifer Arlen, a professor at New York University Law School who specializes in corporate crimes. It is difficult and rare, though.

“A corporation can be charged with homicide, usually manslaughter,” she said. It doesn’t happen very often, though, because “it’s very rare that the circumstances arise that you can do that.”

http://fortune.com/2014/06/05/could-gm-be-charged-with-murder/

---------

Corporations probably won't want "Personhood" regarding criminal charges..... but like it very much when seeking 1st Amendment Protections

Post #: 1

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 8:05:47 AM

MrRodgers

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I don't know who GM has killed but trust me, nobody at BP or the coal companies is going to jail. Whether you call a corp. a person or not, it has been the American business tradition that people dying for a profit is a perfectly acceptable occurrence and business practice.

How do we codify the rights beyond property rights to something such as a corporation that does not exist...except in the abstract and only on paper ? Easy, just as in capital...constitutionally use the Orwellian technique of calling [it] all something else...change the meaning of words.

Corporations become people and capital becomes speech. In the past, America called people...property, to steal their labor....so ?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/6/2014 8:10:59 AM >

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 2

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 9:35:05 AM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I don't know who GM has killed

The delayed recall by General Motors that led to the deaths of at least 13 people was caused by the misconduct of about 20 employees and "a pattern of incompetence and neglect" throughout the company, according to an internal probe released Thursday.

GM Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra announced that 15 employees have been dismissed and five more have been disciplined in the wake of the three-month probe by former federal prosecutor Anton Valukas.

Some were dismissed due to misconduct or incompetence, while others simply did not do enough to fix the problem, Barra said. Their names and jobs were not disclosed.

Barra, a GM veteran who became CEO in January, said she was deeply saddened and disturbed reading Valukas' report.

"It represents a fundamental failure to meet the basic needs of these customers," she said about the findings. "We simply didn't do our jobs. We failed these customers."

The report found that "GM personnel's inability to address the ignition switch problem, which persisted for more than 11 years, represents a history of failures," according to Barra.

"While everybody who was engaged on the ignition switch issue had the responsibility to fix it, nobody took responsibility," she said. "Throughout the entire 11-year history, there was no demonstrated sense of urgency, right to the very end."

Related: How Brooke Melton's death led to the GM recall -- The first time Brooke Melton's car stalled while driving, her father insisted they take it to the dealership to be fixed.

But it happened again three days later, on March 10, 2010 -- her 29th birthday. This time, she lost control of the car. It spun out, hydroplaned, hit an oncoming vehicle and rolled off the road, dropping 15 feet into a creek. Before her parents could get to the hospital, Brooke Melton was dead.

Barra said the company would create a program to compensate those injured or killed by the defective cars, but she didn't say how large that fund would be.

The company will start accepting claims on August 1. Compensation expert Kenneth Feinberg will decide how victims will be paid. GM President Dan Ammann said that Feinberg would determine who is eligible for compensation, and to what extent, which will dictate the size of the fund.

GM estimates 13 people died as a result of the ignition switch flaw. But the head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, other safety experts and families of people killed in recalled cars have said that number doesn't include all the victims who should be counted. Ammann said it will be up to Feinberg to determine if there are more than 13 fatalities whose families are due compensation.

Ammann said the automaker is voluntarily starting the compensation program, despite the protection from lawsuits that it acquired as part of its 2009 bankruptcy case. Families that don't accept the money GM offers can try to sue the automaker. But Ammann said GM is not waiving its legal protections, so lawsuits might be an uphill battle.

Barra said the report "revealed no conspiracy by the corporation to cover up the facts," and no evidence that "any employee made a trade-off between safety and cost."

But it did not clear the company of wrongdoing.

"What Valukas found was a pattern of management deficiencies and misjudgments -- often based on incomplete data -- that were passed off at the time as business as usual."

Related: GM - Steps to a recall nightmare -- 2007 -- GM employees are informed of a fatal 2005 Cobalt crash in which airbags did not deploy. By the end of the year, GM is aware of 10 deadly Cobalt accidents in which airbags failed. -- June 5, 2014 -- The automaker also says the number of deaths tied to its flawed ignition switch may be more than the total of 13 it has disclosed publicly.

GM (GM)admitted in February that its engineers first knew of the ignition switch problem as early as 2004. But it did not recall the 2.6 million cars affected until earlier this year. The faulty ignition switch made the cars prone to shutting off while on the road, disabling the airbags, power steering and anti-lock brakes.

Grieving parents battle GM

Barra said that some GM employees believed the ignition switch flaw was only "a customer satisfaction issue, not a safety issue." They did not understand that shutting off the car would disable critical safety features like airbags.

"That was a critical fact that was misdiagnosed," she said.

The company, on Valukas' advice, has already placed two engineers on paid leave in what Barra referred to as an "interim step."

GM recently changed its recall process, prompting nearly 16 million recalls worldwide this year -- a record for the company. GM said it will cost about $1.7 billion to make all of those the repairs.

GM will pay a $35 million fine to safety regulators and is the subject of a criminal probe. Congress and NHTSA are continuing their investigations, and GM faces wrongful death lawsuits from victims' families.
First Published: June 5, 2014: 6:57 AM ET

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/05/news/companies/gm-recall-probe/

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/6/2014 9:42:25 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 3

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 9:50:21 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I don't know who GM has killed

The delayed recall by General Motors that led to the deaths of at least 13 people was caused by the misconduct of about 20 employees and "a pattern of incompetence and neglect" throughout the company, according to an internal probe released Thursday.

GM Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra announced that 15 employees have been dismissed and five more have been disciplined in the wake of the three-month probe by former federal prosecutor Anton Valukas.

Some were dismissed due to misconduct or incompetence, while others simply did not do enough to fix the problem, Barra said. Their names and jobs were not disclosed.

Barra, a GM veteran who became CEO in January, said she was deeply saddened and disturbed reading Valukas' report.

"It represents a fundamental failure to meet the basic needs of these customers," she said about the findings. "We simply didn't do our jobs. We failed these customers."

The report found that "GM personnel's inability to address the ignition switch problem, which persisted for more than 11 years, represents a history of failures," according to Barra.

"While everybody who was engaged on the ignition switch issue had the responsibility to fix it, nobody took responsibility," she said. "Throughout the entire 11-year history, there was no demonstrated sense of urgency, right to the very end."

Related: How Brooke Melton's death led to the GM recall

Barra said the company would create a program to compensate those injured or killed by the defective cars, but she didn't say how large that fund would be.

The company will start accepting claims on August 1. Compensation expert Kenneth Feinberg will decide how victims will be paid. GM President Dan Ammann said that Feinberg would determine who is eligible for compensation, and to what extent, which will dictate the size of the fund.

GM estimates 13 people died as a result of the ignition switch flaw. But the head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, other safety experts and families of people killed in recalled cars have said that number doesn't include all the victims who should be counted. Ammann said it will be up to Feinberg to determine if there are more than 13 fatalities whose families are due compensation.

Ammann said the automaker is voluntarily starting the compensation program, despite the protection from lawsuits that it acquired as part of its 2009 bankruptcy case. Families that don't accept the money GM offers can try to sue the automaker. But Ammann said GM is not waiving its legal protections, so lawsuits might be an uphill battle.

Barra said the report "revealed no conspiracy by the corporation to cover up the facts," and no evidence that "any employee made a trade-off between safety and cost."

But it did not clear the company of wrongdoing.

"What Valukas found was a pattern of management deficiencies and misjudgments -- often based on incomplete data -- that were passed off at the time as business as usual."

Related: GM - Steps to a recall nightmare

GM (GM)admitted in February that its engineers first knew of the ignition switch problem as early as 2004. But it did not recall the 2.6 million cars affected until earlier this year. The faulty ignition switch made the cars prone to shutting off while on the road, disabling the airbags, power steering and anti-lock brakes.

Grieving parents battle GM

Barra said that some GM employees believed the ignition switch flaw was only "a customer satisfaction issue, not a safety issue." They did not understand that shutting off the car would disable critical safety features like airbags.

"That was a critical fact that was misdiagnosed," she said.

The company, on Valukas' advice, has already placed two engineers on paid leave in what Barra referred to as an "interim step."

GM recently changed its recall process, prompting nearly 16 million recalls worldwide this year -- a record for the company. GM said it will cost about $1.7 billion to make all of those the repairs.

GM will pay a $35 million fine to safety regulators and is the subject of a criminal probe. Congress and NHTSA are continuing their investigations, and GM faces wrongful death lawsuits from victims' families.
First Published: June 5, 2014: 6:57 AM ET

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/05/news/companies/gm-recall-probe/

OK, however, this is not materially different than BP's killing of 11 at an oil platform or the explosion and fire at Texas or coal miners buried. The idea that employee's (corp.) behavior resulting in injury or death is not criminal negligence, deserving of jail time...is preposterous. This would stop if people including management started to go to jail.

Notice how in every case, the corporation hides behind its legal entitlement to private profits but without...private liability beyond a few pieces of silver, i.e., a part of the cost of doing business.

It is a business culture, damages to a corp can be criminal, damages by a corp. are almost always...civil.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 4

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 10:13:00 AM

Musicmystery

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Joined: 3/14/2005
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Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 5

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 10:44:36 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 6

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 10:49:58 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

The OP asks the question...What happens ? And I am saying that we all can forget it, we're seeing what happens...nothing. GM will not be charged with manslaughter if the BP's of the world aren't. The corp. is not a person at the very least, for the purposes of any criminal incarceration only firings and fines...no matter the charges.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 7

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 10:51:46 AM

MrRodgers

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Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

America is a corporate 'town.'

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 8

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 10:52:13 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Remember the Ford Pinto Memo?

Ford's "Pinto" Memo

The 1973 memorandum* written for and circulated amongst senior management
at the Ford Motor Company concerning cost-benefit analysis of retrofitting or altering production of autos and light
trucks susceptible to fires from leaking gas tanks after roll-over.

Fatalities Associated with Roll-Over-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires

Expected Costs of producing all US cars and light trucks with fuel tank modifications:

Expected unit sales: 12.5 million vehicles (includes 11 million cars and 1.5 million light utility vehicles built on same chassis)
Modification costs per unit: $11.00
Total Cost: $137.5 million
[= 12,500,000 vehicles x $11.00 per unit]

Expected Costs of producing vehicles without fuel tank modifications:

Expected accident results (assuming 2100 accidents):
180 burn deaths
180 serious burn injuries
2100 burned out vehicles
Unit costs of accident results (assuming out of court settlements):
$200,000 per burn death**
$67,000 per serious injury
$700 per burned out vehicle
Total Costs: $49.53 million
[= (180 deaths x $200k) + (180 injuries x $67k) + (2100 vehicles x $700 per vehicle)]

Thus, the costs for fixing the roll-over problem was $137 million, while the computed cost of cases where injuries occur was only $50 million.

Cheaper to pay the death penalties. So they did.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 9

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 10:53:41 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

The OP asks the question...What happens ? And I am saying that we all can forget it, we're seeing what happens...nothing. GM will not be charged with manslaughter if the BP's of the world aren't. The corp. is not a person at the very least, for the purposes of any criminal incarceration only firings and fines...no matter the charges.

Slow down there, Cowboy.

The OP notes that prosecution for murder is difficult at best.

You're singing from the same hymnal.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 10

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 10:54:22 AM

mnottertail

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Success in freemarket communism. Did the market decide this? Or is that part of the whole littany of asswipe in that theory?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 11

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/6/2014 12:11:26 PM

Gauge

Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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If corporations are people, that should also apply for tax purposes.

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I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 12

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 2:46:59 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

Not sure why you would care about a liberal town like Detroit. No nutsackers there and the airport bathroom isn't big enough to throw a party.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 13

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 3:24:11 AM

eulero83

Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
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FR

probably the "companies are persons" concept will never have a backlash for companies and for sure not for a manslaughter charge, but companies work through people.
There has to be someone that ultimately apporved the project with the ignition switch, knowing it was defective, if he had to approve it under threat than there is a higher rank responsible and so on, those are all professionally negligent and caused the death of 13 or more people, why aren't those charged with manslaughter?

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 14

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 3:31:05 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

Not sure why you would care about a liberal town like Detroit. No nutsackers there and the airport bathroom isn't big enough to throw a party.

The vulture capitalist was there and eliminated or moved an estimated 3 million jobs (China/Mexico) reducing demand for another 2 million, presto...ghost town.

What would happen to any major city if you removed 5 million jobs ? Yes, they've had corrupt govts, but so have other cities some of which got state or federal bailouts. NY comes to mind and paid for a $50 million face-lift for Yankees stadium while being bailed-out.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 15

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 11:07:42 AM

BitYakin

Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

Not sure why you would care about a liberal town like Detroit. No nutsackers there and the airport bathroom isn't big enough to throw a party.

The vulture capitalist was there and eliminated or moved an estimated 3 million jobs (China/Mexico) reducing demand for another 2 million, presto...ghost town.

What would happen to any major city if you removed 5 million jobs ? Yes, they've had corrupt govts, but so have other cities some of which got state or federal bailouts. NY comes to mind and paid for a $50 million face-lift for Yankees stadium while being bailed-out.

hmmm, remove 5 million jobs from a major city, well in MOST cases you would have removed more jobs than there are people to fill them...

in the Detroit case, you'd have removed more jobs than 50% of the population of the ENTIRE state of Mich, which includes children to young to work

Population (2013)

• City
681,090

• Rank
US: 18th

• Density
5,142/sq mi (1,985/km2)

• Urban
3,734,090 (US: 11th)

• Metro
4,292,060 (US: 14th)

• CSA
5,311,449 (US: 12th)

considering Detroit as of 2013 ranked 18th in us cities in population, you'd only have maybe 3 - 6 cities in the USA that would even have 5 million jobs, LA, NYC, CHicago & Houston come to mind, other than those four I can't think of city that has a population large enough to support 5 million jobs

maybe you were just exaggerating for emphasis? but a more realistic number might be 500K jobs, but even that I think would be a stretch!

< Message edited by BitYakin -- 6/7/2014 11:09:57 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 16

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 11:31:06 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

Not sure why you would care about a liberal town like Detroit. No nutsackers there and the airport bathroom isn't big enough to throw a party.

The vulture capitalist was there and eliminated or moved an estimated 3 million jobs (China/Mexico) reducing demand for another 2 million, presto...ghost town.

What would happen to any major city if you removed 5 million jobs ? Yes, they've had corrupt govts, but so have other cities some of which got state or federal bailouts. NY comes to mind and paid for a $50 million face-lift for Yankees stadium while being bailed-out.

hmmm, remove 5 million jobs from a major city, well in MOST cases you would have removed more jobs than there are people to fill them...

in the Detroit case, you'd have removed more jobs than 50% of the population of the ENTIRE state of Mich, which includes children to young to work

Population (2013)

• City
681,090

• Rank
US: 18th

• Density
5,142/sq mi (1,985/km2)

• Urban
3,734,090 (US: 11th)

• Metro
4,292,060 (US: 14th)

• CSA
5,311,449 (US: 12th)

considering Detroit as of 2013 ranked 18th in us cities in population, you'd only have maybe 3 - 6 cities in the USA that would even have 5 million jobs, LA, NYC, CHicago & Houston come to mind, other than those four I can't think of city that has a population large enough to support 5 million jobs

maybe you were just exaggerating for emphasis? but a more realistic number might be 500K jobs, but even that I think would be a stretch!

I am was born and raised in Detroit and in its heyday prior to the exodus, it was 5th largest city in the country behind NY, LA, Chicago and Phil. The metro Detroit area which included all of the car plants including the suburbs, was over 5 million in population. Wayne and Oakland Counties lost 5 million plus jobs due to that exodus almost all of which were in the city and surrounds and that took away commuters, sales and more jobs.

Some estimate that subsequent to MFN (most favored nation trading...China and NAFTA...Mexico) The metro Detroit area lost at least 5 million jobs from that point going back over 20 years and have lost 1/4 of the city's population alone since 2000 because the city tax base and business tax revenue...has been absolutely devastated.

Even if these figures are high as estimates...no other city has been subjected to the same loss of jobs, particularly skilled labor not requiring college and more than even Pittsburgh who did handle steel's problems better but was also a much smaller city.

Also Pittsburgh my closest possible comparison had its transit and pension liabilities bailed out by the state of Pa.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 6/7/2014 11:37:49 AM >

(in reply to BitYakin)

Post #: 17

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 12:01:19 PM

BitYakin

Posts: 882
Joined: 10/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

Not sure why you would care about a liberal town like Detroit. No nutsackers there and the airport bathroom isn't big enough to throw a party.

The vulture capitalist was there and eliminated or moved an estimated 3 million jobs (China/Mexico) reducing demand for another 2 million, presto...ghost town.

What would happen to any major city if you removed 5 million jobs ? Yes, they've had corrupt govts, but so have other cities some of which got state or federal bailouts. NY comes to mind and paid for a $50 million face-lift for Yankees stadium while being bailed-out.

hmmm, remove 5 million jobs from a major city, well in MOST cases you would have removed more jobs than there are people to fill them...

in the Detroit case, you'd have removed more jobs than 50% of the population of the ENTIRE state of Mich, which includes children to young to work

Population (2013)

• City
681,090

• Rank
US: 18th

• Density
5,142/sq mi (1,985/km2)

• Urban
3,734,090 (US: 11th)

• Metro
4,292,060 (US: 14th)

• CSA
5,311,449 (US: 12th)

considering Detroit as of 2013 ranked 18th in us cities in population, you'd only have maybe 3 - 6 cities in the USA that would even have 5 million jobs, LA, NYC, CHicago & Houston come to mind, other than those four I can't think of city that has a population large enough to support 5 million jobs

maybe you were just exaggerating for emphasis? but a more realistic number might be 500K jobs, but even that I think would be a stretch!

I am was born and raised in Detroit and in its heyday prior to the exodus, it was 5th largest city in the country behind NY, LA, Chicago and Phil. The metro Detroit area which included all of the car plants including the suburbs, was over 5 million in population. Wayne and Oakland Counties lost 5 million plus jobs due to that exodus almost all of which were in the city and surrounds and that took away commuters, sales and more jobs.

Some estimate that subsequent to MFN (most favored nation trading...China and NAFTA...Mexico) The metro Detroit area lost at least 5 million jobs from that point going back over 20 years and have lost 1/4 of the city's population alone since 2000 because the city tax base and business tax revenue...has been absolutely devastated.

Even if these figures are high as estimates...no other city has been subjected to the same loss of jobs, particularly skilled labor not requiring college and more than even Pittsburgh who did handle steel's problems better but was also a much smaller city.

Also Pittsburgh my closest possible comparison had its transit and pension liabilities bailed out by the state of Pa.

just a lil info for ya...

St. Louis has lost 62.7% of its population since the 1950 United States Census, the highest percent of any city that had a population of 100,000 or more at the time of the 1950 Census. Detroit and Youngstown, Ohio are the only other cities to have seen population declines of at least 60% in the same time frame

comparably

Long a major population center and major engine of worldwide automobile manufacturing, Detroit has gone through a continuing economic decline. Like many American cities, Detroit reached its population peak in the 1950 census. The peak population was 1.8 million people, and as of the 2010 census had less than 40 percent of that number at just over 700,000 residents. The city has declined in population with each subsequent census since 1950

point I am trying to make is, this decline is not unique to Detroit, its a trend that has been going on for over 1/2 a century...
people focus on Detroit because of the auto industry, but the truth is very very FEW cities have not had this same problem, Houston being the most notable of them.

During the late 1970s, Houston experienced a population boom as people from the Rust Belt states moved to Texas in large numbers.[32] The new residents came for numerous employment opportunities in the petroleum industry, created as a result of the Arab Oil Embargo.

The population boom ended abruptly in the mid-1980s, as oil prices fell precipitously. The space industry also suffered in 1986 after the Space Shuttle Challenger disintegrated shortly after launch. The late 1980s saw a recession adversely affecting the city's economy.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

Post #: 18

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 1:03:25 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

Well the unions did certainly do their share but mostly it was the crooks in office.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 19

RE: Corporate Personhood -- What Happens at GM? - 6/7/2014 1:04:49 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Um . . . I believe that's the issue the OP is addressing.

Yeah, right there in Detroit, the corporate town.

Not sure why you would care about a liberal town like Detroit. No nutsackers there and the airport bathroom isn't big enough to throw a party.

The vulture capitalist was there and eliminated or moved an estimated 3 million jobs (China/Mexico) reducing demand for another 2 million, presto...ghost town.

What would happen to any major city if you removed 5 million jobs ? Yes, they've had corrupt govts, but so have other cities some of which got state or federal bailouts. NY comes to mind and paid for a $50 million face-lift for Yankees stadium while being bailed-out.

any links to share?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to MrRodgers)

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