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Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 6:51:22 AM

jlf1961

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The the Texas GOP announced a change in its stance on homosexuality.

They are now pushing to end the bans on reparative therapy for gay minors. Texas GOP Takes Aim at Bans on 'Reparative Therapy' for Gay Minors

Isnt the fact that being gay is not a choice of lifestyle important, or are they as well as other conservatives still pushing the theory that it is a choice, and people choose to be gay?

And yet the GOP wonders why they are loosing moderates.

< Message edited by jlf1961 -- 6/7/2014 6:53:37 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 7:05:16 AM

DomKen

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That platform denies science in a bunch of places. The Texas GOP is nuts.

(in reply to jlf1961)

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 10:28:23 AM

TheHeretic

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Texas... It's like a whole other country.

Meanwhile, out in California, the tea-type candidate for governor had his ass well kicked in the open primary, which will put the debate onto California coming in dead last for a business friendly environment, instead of hiding that under a bunch of nonsense.

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 1:45:56 PM

Musicmystery

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True about Texas.

Also true about California.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 1:51:58 PM

subrosaDom

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Religious conservatives deny science when they argue for "intelligent [sic] design" and reparative therapy -- and when they say the Founders were deeply religious men rather than the Deists they actually were.

Leftists deny science when they call anthropogenic climate change "deniers" Nazis, when they blame bad storms that are simply examples of statistical variance on "global warming," when they blame excessive heat and excessive cold on the same, when they call Islam the "religion of peace" (if I were gay, I'd choose reparative therapy over the death penalty! -- but instead, nothing but silence and appeasement on shari'a) and when they advocate failed Marxist economic policies.

There is plenty of denial of reality to go around and more than enough irrational faith on both the left and the right.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 2:05:51 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

Religious conservatives deny science when they argue for "intelligent [sic] design" and reparative therapy -- and when they say the Founders were deeply religious men rather than the Deists they actually were.

Leftists deny science when they call anthropogenic climate change "deniers" Nazis, when they blame bad storms that are simply examples of statistical variance on "global warming," when they blame excessive heat and excessive cold on the same, when they call Islam the "religion of peace" (if I were gay, I'd choose reparative therapy over the death penalty! -- but instead, nothing but silence and appeasement on shari'a) and when they advocate failed Marxist economic policies.

There is plenty of denial of reality to go around and more than enough irrational faith on both the left and the right.

And the nuts keep on coming.

(in reply to subrosaDom)

Post #: 6

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 2:17:57 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

Religious conservatives deny science when they argue for "intelligent [sic] design" and reparative therapy -- and when they say the Founders were deeply religious men rather than the Deists they actually were.

Leftists deny science when they call anthropogenic climate change "deniers" Nazis, when they blame bad storms that are simply examples of statistical variance on "global warming," when they blame excessive heat and excessive cold on the same, when they call Islam the "religion of peace" (if I were gay, I'd choose reparative therapy over the death penalty! -- but instead, nothing but silence and appeasement on shari'a) and when they advocate failed Marxist economic policies.

There is plenty of denial of reality to go around and more than enough irrational faith on both the left and the right.

Wow. What planet did you say you were from?

(in reply to subrosaDom)

Post #: 7

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 2:50:50 PM

PeonForHer

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I love American politics. It's the rootenest, tootenest, shootenist game in town! Yee hah!

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/7/2014 2:51:19 PM >

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(in reply to Musicmystery)

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/7/2014 3:24:08 PM

jlf1961

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Texas... It's like a whole other country.

Meanwhile, out in California, the tea-type candidate for governor had his ass well kicked in the open primary, which will put the debate onto California coming in dead last for a business friendly environment, instead of hiding that under a bunch of nonsense.

I think you mean a whole other universe. Look I live here, and the majority of folks in this state have as much a connection to reality as I or you do with god hood and immortality.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 9

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/8/2014 4:50:40 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Isnt the fact that being gay is not a choice...

I don't know of any effective method for changing gender preference. But nobody "chooses" either their genetic endowment or their formative environment, and there is nothing scientific about a claim that consequent social behaviors (whatever they may be) cannot be influenced because "those" people are just "born that way." Sexual attraction is a particularly complex phenomenon that goes way beyond gender preference. Some people find themselves repeatedly attracted to abusive partners who destroy their self-esteem. Should we tell them we're sorry, they were just "born that way"? If an individual wants to change, why deny them the attempt?

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/8/2014 5:04:33 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/8/2014 4:57:48 PM

RockaRolla

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It's not about the science. It's about proving to the radicals that theirs is the most devout, courageous party around (therefore more worthy of votes/campaign dollars.) It's about turning their corner of the world back to the "good old days" where their conservative values weren't questioned. It's about a short sighted, desperate attempt to create their dream world without realizing that other people would have to live in it too.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 11

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/8/2014 5:38:23 PM

GotSteel

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Considering that these are the people who want to stop critical thinking this seems like one of their more moderate positions.

(in reply to jlf1961)

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/8/2014 9:10:03 PM

SadistDave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Isnt the fact that being gay is not a choice of lifestyle important, or are they as well as other conservatives still pushing the theory that it is a choice, and people choose to be gay?

I'm just curious, not trying to pick a fight. I really don't care what people do with their naught bits.

What makes you think that being gay isn't a choice for many people, and what science are you referring to?

The last I was aware, Xq28 gene had been thoroughly discredited because the study was done with questionable political motives and pretty bad science to boot. In early 2014, the so-called "gay gene" scientists came to the conclusion that there was no gay gene, but a mixture of genetic markers that only accounted for about 40% of homosexual males. That means that 60% of gay men are not "born that way".

In fact, virtually every news article I've seen on the topic suggests that genetics is only part of the reason men become homosexuals. Amazingly, genetics does not appear to have anything at all to do with lesbianism (or at least they haven't identified any yet), which appears to be caused entirely by social and environmental influences. Lesbians account for a large number of the gay community, but the genetic factors don't add up on that score.

Taken as a whole, it would appear that genetics only accounts for a small minority of homosexuals to be genetically predisposed. Has all of that changed in the last 4 months or does science suddenly claim that all homosexuals are "born that way"?

-SD-

(Edited for clarity, spelling, punctuation, and all sorts of other horrible shit.)

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 6/8/2014 9:44:06 PM >

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To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to jlf1961)

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RE: Talk about science denial - 6/9/2014 4:21:09 AM

Tkman117

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To answer that question, do you remember when you chose to like girls? Do you remember when you decided that you'd want to be with a woman over a man? Ask a gay or lesbian that same question, and you'll get the same answer that you would probably say: "I never decided, I've been this way as long as I remember."

And if you say you did decide, then either you're lying, you're bisexual or you're a closet gay. I have never met a straight man or woman who has ever said they decided to be straight when he/she was younger. If a straight person doesn't choose to be straight, then why would it be logical to assume that gay people do?

(in reply to SadistDave)

Post #: 14

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/9/2014 10:02:02 AM

dcnovice

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FR

One gay man's slightly recycled thoughts on whether sexual orientation is a choice:

(a) There are options beside a "gay gene" and a conscious choice to be homosexual. I've read/heard that hormones in utero may play a role, as might family dynamics.

(b) I don't think I've ever met anyone--gay, straight, or anywhere in between--who described his or her orientation as a choice. Mine certainly wasn't.

(c) When I finally came out to myself in college, I was struck by how many of my friends--from both elementary and high school--turned out to be gay as well. Somehow, there was something about us that connected long before we were aware of our orientation, much less in a position to "choose" it. Others have reported this same pattern in their circles of friends.

(d) I've never heard a convincing--or, for that matter, any--explanation of why someone would choose an orientation that for much of history has meant being oppressed, sometimes violently.

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(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 15

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/9/2014 10:45:25 AM

joether

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For a philosophy that often states it wants people to live in "...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.", the conservative one has been a contradiction of terms. If conservatives were following the actual definition of the word 'conservative', they would be progressing towards the idea that homosexuality is as normal as heterosexuality. Just would take a bit longer than the liberal philosophy. Yet that is not what is being seen here or on any number of other stances in American politics. Their stance seems to be a degeneration of principles, ideas, and views. Not back to a '1950's household' or even 'colonial days of America'. Well before either of those moments in US History. Its one thing to throw off since as 'hogwash' in the 12th century; its quite more foolish in the 21st century. Given what is known already in science and knowledge, it seems a very backwards step.

The purpose of therapy is to help the individual live life to a good sense. Forcing the individual to conform to a pseudo-society's expectation has never been found in science to bring a 'better quality of life' to any individual. That parents demand their kids not 'go gay' is immature and foolish behavior. Often leads to resentment, hatred, and 'divorce of family'. But that has become the representation of 'conservative values' in America; spoil, physically adult, mentally/emotionally child minded, individual enacting laws and concepts that alert, honest, informed, adults would never institute. As far as I understand it, Texas is in a 'dead heat' for 'stupidest state in the nation' with Arizona, Florida, and Alaska. Has it not been understood yet that when conservatives get together in large numbers; dumb things tend to happen?

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 16

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/9/2014 12:44:39 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

To answer that question, do you remember when you chose to like girls? Do you remember when you decided that you'd want to be with a woman over a man? Ask a gay or lesbian that same question, and you'll get the same answer that you would probably say: "I never decided, I've been this way as long as I remember."

And if you say you did decide, then either you're lying, you're bisexual or you're a closet gay. I have never met a straight man or woman who has ever said they decided to be straight when he/she was younger. If a straight person doesn't choose to be straight, then why would it be logical to assume that gay people do?

Can you point me to which post you're responding to? Because neither the one your reply is linked to nor any other that I can find in this thread is making the claim that homosexuality is a choice.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/9/2014 12:59:04 PM >

(in reply to Tkman117)

Post #: 17

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/9/2014 1:57:22 PM

Tkman117

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...read the post right before mine by sadist dave...also look at the "In reply to" part, it'll give you all the information you need

Plus I was simply making a point, he was discussing homosexuality possibly being a choice, I was providing a different insight. I wasn't attacking him for that belief or that he was making that claim based on that belief, I was simply making a point. Is that a problem?

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 6/9/2014 2:08:39 PM >

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 18

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/9/2014 2:31:08 PM

MrRodgers

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

Religious conservatives deny science when they argue for "intelligent [sic] design" and reparative therapy -- and when they say the Founders were deeply religious men rather than the Deists they actually were.

Leftists deny science when they call anthropogenic climate change "deniers" Nazis, when they blame bad storms that are simply examples of statistical variance on "global warming," when they blame excessive heat and excessive cold on the same, when they call Islam the "religion of peace" (if I were gay, I'd choose reparative therapy over the death penalty! -- but instead, nothing but silence and appeasement on shari'a) and when they advocate failed Marxist economic policies.

There is plenty of denial of reality to go around and more than enough irrational faith on both the left and the right.

.....failed Marxist economic policies ? There have been what 7 new DOW and S&P highs, record profits in many industries, trillion$ in offshore still un-taxed profits, unpunished bank fraud, unrelenting corporate manslaughter. Marx has long since burrowed himself out of his grave except he predicted the bad parts.

Just what is a statistical variance when it isn't that warmer air holds more water, greater extremes in heat mean greater extremes in cold and the unrelenting rise in sea water ?

Can't fund stem cells but Texas can fund 'cures' for a genetic or psychological predisposition. The Texas GOP would be funny of they weren't so tragic. Nazi in economic terms is capitalist fascists.

(in reply to subrosaDom)

Post #: 19

RE: Talk about science denial - 6/9/2014 2:41:50 PM

RockaRolla

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Joined: 1/20/2014
From: South Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Isnt the fact that being gay is not a choice of lifestyle important, or are they as well as other conservatives still pushing the theory that it is a choice, and people choose to be gay?

I'm just curious, not trying to pick a fight. I really don't care what people do with their naught bits.

What makes you think that being gay isn't a choice for many people, and what science are you referring to?

The last I was aware, Xq28 gene had been thoroughly discredited because the study was done with questionable political motives and pretty bad science to boot. In early 2014, the so-called "gay gene" scientists came to the conclusion that there was no gay gene, but a mixture of genetic markers that only accounted for about 40% of homosexual males. That means that 60% of gay men are not "born that way".

In fact, virtually every news article I've seen on the topic suggests that genetics is only part of the reason men become homosexuals. Amazingly, genetics does not appear to have anything at all to do with lesbianism (or at least they haven't identified any yet), which appears to be caused entirely by social and environmental influences. Lesbians account for a large number of the gay community, but the genetic factors don't add up on that score.

Taken as a whole, it would appear that genetics only accounts for a small minority of homosexuals to be genetically predisposed. Has all of that changed in the last 4 months or does science suddenly claim that all homosexuals are "born that way"?

-SD-

(Edited for clarity, spelling, punctuation, and all sorts of other horrible shit.)

Just because it may not have a genetic origin, doesn't mean it's a choice. Genetics aren't the only determining factor in ourselves.

(in reply to SadistDave)

Post #: 20

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