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Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 8:00:44 AM   
MojoDaddyMarine


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/17/2014
Status: offline 		I am curious as to everyone's opinion on this issue of "nakedness" and what I mean by that is I have made it clear to my new sub, that I expect her to be naked to me. And what I mean by that is that we both need to build trust more than anything and I am open to any questions, and knowledge she may need of Me to form that trust and I the same feel she should never hide anything I ask, nor should there ever be deception. Not long into our relationship I gave her permission to go out with a girlfriend one night and we discussed how she also had my permission to sleep on her sofa, if the night got too long and there was too much alcohol after dinner. Being this was our first opportunity for Me to show her trust, I was gravely disappointed to not receive her text as agreed upon and I had sent one to her when heading to bed. I woke the next morning and she finally called at 7am, and I come to find out she left her friend after dinner, drove 55 miles into the city party district searching our an old friend who DJ'd at a club and says she spent the night on his and his Girlfriend's couch. Could not make the trip home immediately because she was given a valium, which in itself warrants great punishment. She made it home safely 3 pm that afternoon. On an early occasion I caught her on her cellphone texting someone I found to be questionable.....so my idea of nakedness is that I demand she allow me access to her cell phone to monitor those that she may be communicating, more so for her own safety, because she does not have the self discipline to make the right choices. We are at the point where I am prepared to send her out the door. She claims my request is unreasonable and even though she is a "wiling" sub she has rights to certain privacies. My question of course to the community is do any of you feel I am wrong for expecting this in order to control her bad decision in the near future in hopes of regaining trust so that I do not have to continue the practice forever? She has attempted to gain the advice of a friend who is a Dom of course not explaining her actions that have caused me to lose trust in her, and his opinion is that I am a controlling ass, with issues of my own, but of course I have yet had opportunity to speak to him recently so he has a clear picture. What is a Dom suppose to be if not controlling? And does a sub have any realm of her personal life that she should rightfully expect privacy or am I correct in assuming that in a D/s relationship all members should be equally "naked"?
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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 8:20:30 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MojoDaddyMarine
<snip>
... his opinion is that I am a controlling ass, with issues of my own, but of course I have yet had opportunity to speak to him recently so he has a clear picture. What is a Dom suppose to be if not controlling? And does a sub have any realm of her personal life that she should rightfully expect privacy or am I correct in assuming that in a D/s relationship all members should be equally "naked"?

What? A Dominant being a controlling ass? How could such a thing be possible, except in an alternate universe? :p

No, I don't believe you are being unreasonable, but I'm questioning to what extent you and your sub talked through both of your expectations for a D/s relationship. It doesn't appear as if she views this as a partnership or has accepted your ownership of her. D/s or vanilla, you just don't go outside the relationship, and another Dom getting in the middle is uncool on so many levels. (He may believe he's acting protective or he could have ulterior motives in getting involved in something that isn't any of his business.) Your behavior doesn't impress me as even bordering on inappropriate, much less abusive. Controlling, yes, but that's what subs know, want, crave and seek ahead of time from their Master or Mistress.

Other than inexperience, is it possible she is more of a BDSM bottom whose actual inclination is toward kinky play - such as a bondage bottom or masochist - and isn't ready to commit to a D/s power exchange dynamic? Your sub isn't respecting your authority from how it sounds.

[Edited typo]

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 6/7/2014 8:22:12 AM >

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 8:31:46 AM   
MojoDaddyMarine


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/17/2014
Status: offline 		Quote:Other than inexperience, is it possible she is more of a BDSM bottom whose actual inclination is toward kinky play - such as a bondage bottom or masochist - and isn't ready to commit to a D/s power exchange dynamic? Your sub isn't respecting your authority from how it sounds.


No in the lifestyle she has probably much more experience than I, and has had other previous Doms in her past. We are attempting to balance our kink life and vanilla lives where we live together full time.

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 8:38:27 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MojoDaddyMarine

No in the lifestyle she has probably much more experience than I, and has had other previous Doms in her past. We are attempting to balance our kink life and vanilla lives where we live together full time.

I see. May I inquire as to your sub's age and approximately how many years of D/s experience she has had with how many Doms? I'm wondering if there is a pattern. I realize that D/s and/or BDSM relationships don't last as long as *ordinary* ones do, with a much shorter shelf life.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 9:30:20 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Does a sub have any right to privacy or any areas of her life that the dom doesn't get to control? Could do, if that's what works for the two of you. There's no official standard a relationship has to measure up to in order to be counted as D/s. It seems like a compatibility issue to me - you clearly have different ideas of how D/s should look. What you want is fine, and it's equally fine if she doesn't want that.

You say she's your 'new sub' - how long have you actually been together? Because total control and total loss of privacy are long term things to me. I'd not think twice about letting my husband go through my phone, but early in the relationship that would be a huge red flag, as would someone telling me that my choice of friend was 'questionable'. I'm not saying this is what you are doing, but these are common starting moves of abusive partners, and I wouldn't allow it in a newish relationship.

Personally I'd be put off by someone who wanted to go out partying and taking drugs because that's a sign of immaturity to me, and I'd rather move on and find someone who matches me better. I wouldn't be interested in sticking around with someone that I didn't feel could run their own lives, sub or not, and that seems to be what you are implying. Do you really want to try and fix her? Does she really want to be fixed? It sounds like you are already not on the same page regarding how you want these things to work out - I'd be seriously tempted to walk away. Since you're in your 50s, I assume this is a fully mature woman who probably isn't going to change her attitudes or lifestyle all that much.

So privacy? Maybe, maybe not. Sounds like it's time to get on the same page as her or walk away.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 9:58:55 AM   
MojoDaddyMarine


Posts: 28
Joined: 5/17/2014
Status: offline 		To answer previous questions, I am 52, and she is 33... she has been in the lifestyle for 12 years and has had maybe 3 Doms in her past. Never a fulltime TPE live in situation as we have now. We have been together for two months, which is why I feel we are in a formative stage where we have discussed boundaries and I am trying to impress on her the need to form and maintain a strong level of trust. I feel she was deceptive in handling her first opportunity to go out with friends on her own, and used the opportunity to do something she knew very well that I would disapprove of. Do I wish to fix her? Isn't it part of Dom's responsibility to help train and mold His sub into the best she can be. I do not expect her to come to me "perfect" as long as she is pliable enough to train to where I can help her accomplish personal, professional, emotional, goals within our lives together.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 10:20:13 AM   
InHisHeart


Posts: 630
Joined: 3/22/2014
Status: offline 		I don't feel you are being unreasonable at all as long as you both agreed on what expectations there are in your relationship.

My former D/s relationship (20+ years) was more relaxed meaning not as much protocol and rules than my relationship now has (7 years). In the beginning of this relationship it took some adjusting and was frustrating for both of us at times because for so long I was used to not having to ask permission for some things that I do now and not having to do X, Y or Z that now I do have to do. It wasn't that I would step out of line or disrespect his authority purposely, it was more about old habits die hard.

With us both being able to communicate well with each other, talk about our expectations, concerns, frustrations, etc., we got it all pulled together in a short time.

Try sitting down with her and going over your rules, what's acceptable/unacceptable to you, if she's not in agreement with some things, discuss them and and see if there's a way to make it work well for both of you. IMO...in any long term relationship whether vanilla or D/s there needs to be room for some compromise at times by both partners.

IHH



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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 10:21:37 AM   
Killerangel


Posts: 1169
Joined: 8/3/2010
Status: offline 		This is really simple, the two of you are not a match and have different ideas of what constitutes a relationship, what is meaningful in life, and how to treat someone you are dating. It has nothing at all to do with BDSM.

What would you normally do if someone you were dating had different ideas than yours for how to proceed with a relationship? Do that now.

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 10:27:12 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		Two months and you're already total power exchange and living together? That's pretty fast moving, perhaps it's not surprising that you're finding your ideas about this aren't quite meshing up.

I know what you mean about the dom molding a sub into her best self but I'm not sure that comes from restricting who she communicates with. And there's a difference between polishing someone up and trying to change who they are. At this point I'd propose that you don't really know who she is because two months is very much a honeymoon period. And you're already talking broken trust and serious punishment.

I don't really know how I feel about the whole D/s concept of the dom making the sub the better person. I've always felt that a strong relationship with two reasonably sensible people will inevitably bring out the best in both of them, but the idea that the dom can train the sub to be a better person has always seemed a little naive and romanticised to me. It seems like there are very few people out there qualified to guide a person through those sort of changes, even though a lot of people set out to do just that.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 11:30:08 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		I don't know what's going on. Either she wants more freedom than you're willing to give her, or she's testing your boundaries.

I hate to be this blunt, but if you're having these kinds of issues two months in, I don't see things getting better. Either you ease up, or she accepts your control, or it's not going to end well.

To answer your question about how much privacy she has a right to expect - as much as the two of you agree upon. I feel uncomfortable myself with the degree of openness you're demanding from her, but I cannot see how she can avoid it.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 11:40:42 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		There are a whole lot of possibilities here:
1) While she claims to have a lot of experience, you don't really know what that actually translates to in real life.
So she may have been a lot less ready for 24/7 TPE than she thought she was.
Or she had an entirely different idea of what TPE was going to be like between the 2 of you, IF she thought she had a right to certain privacies. Have the 2 of you yet hashed out what privacies she expected/wants to keep?
It seems like there is a major disconnect for her as to what TPE actually is.
Or she has the habit of acting out to be punished.
Or her SOP is to ask forgiveness rather than asking for permission.
Or she is passive aggressive.
And/Or... .



For you to be able to "control" her,she has to be willing to be controlled.
And it does not seem that she is.

Then there is the issue of her going to someone else for support on her position.
Talking to someone else shouldn't be an issue.
But trying to have your authority lessened?
Not acceptable in my opinion.




_____________________________

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 1:29:20 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't know what's going on. Either she wants more freedom than you're willing to give her, or she's testing your boundaries.

I hate to be this blunt, but if you're having these kinds of issues two months in, I don't see things getting better. Either you ease up, or she accepts your control, or it's not going to end well.

To answer your question about how much privacy she has a right to expect - as much as the two of you agree upon. I feel uncomfortable myself with the degree of openness you're demanding from her, but I cannot see how she can avoid it.

I'm not as reluctant to be blunt.

The problem here is that you don't know what you want...yes, you "sort of" do, but not in the mastery/comfortableness of keeping that focus.

Now, you aren't me, and don't need to be, but just for example, depending on how much I cared (and I probably wouldn't be in it if I didn't), she'd either be gone or disciplined (likely spanked thoroughly in this instance). And it that discipline isn't going to fly with her, then my knowing what I want and what I don't want means she's not a good match.

Step back. Spend some time getting honest with yourself about what you truly want in a partner/sub (and what you don't). And what you're willing to do about it (and what you aren't). Without neediness on your part.

Then let your actions authentically mirror your heart.

Because right now, she's mastering you.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/7/2014 1:31:16 PM >

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/7/2014 2:03:11 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

My question of course to the community is do any of you feel I am wrong for expecting this in order to control her bad decision in the near future in hopes of regaining trust so that I do not have to continue the practice forever?


Yes. From her you are wrong to expect this. This will not change with her. Look elsewhere. There are those who will love to dress or undress to please you. The operative phrase here is "to please you".

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"We master Our world."

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/8/2014 2:11:40 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
<snip>
Because right now, she's mastering you.


It would appear to be so, whether this Topping from the bottom mentality is intentional or passive-aggressive, it has to stop.

Putting D/s and BDSM aside for a moment, your 20-year age gap, OP, has blinded you. Have you been the one pushing to move in together after just two months? How long was your courtship, or was there ever any courtship period prior to this, as in old-fashioned dating? Ask yourself, Would you and your sub be acting this way in a vanilla relationship with such haste? Or would you have been moving at a slower pace like most other mature adults would be doing, getting to know one another first?

If she's been in this lifestyle since she was 21, there's still a big difference between being a bedroom submissive and entering into the 24/7 TPE live-in dynamic you have envisioned for yourselves. I cannot find her completely at fault here either. She has the right to the type of D/s relationship that will work for her or to be with a Master who is willing to help her ease into this at her own pace. It takes time to build trust. The fact that she felt it necessary to consult others to confirm in her own mind that you are being too controlling speaks volumes, whether she went about it ass-backwards or not.

There is only one thing left to do and that is to start from scratch and (re)negotiate everything to your mutual satisfaction before any (more) damage is done which might be irreparable if you both continue to proceed at this rate.

[Edited to insert word]

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 6/8/2014 2:12:52 AM >

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/8/2014 3:55:42 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		She's half your age, she's known you for only a couple of months and you're expecting to take total control.

I'm surprised she's still talking to you. I sure as hell wouldn't be.

It took The Man until we had lived together over two years, after 3 years ldr, before I felt comfortable giving him anywhere near the authority you expect after barely dating a few times.

Before you demand vulnerability, try proving trustworthiness. Try talking and asking questions about how her life works before you arbitrarily change it up wholesale.

So you decided to be magnanimous and allow her to see a friend. How about the fact that you even think you have the right to end her friendships is for many people a red flag. Guys who try to prevent women from keeping their support systems strong are not usually considered good guys.

And if the prescription for Valium are from her doctor, then who are you to overturn her medical care? What are your credentials? And how do you propose to fix the problem that anti-anxiety meds are prescribed for? Because taking someone off their meds does not mean they no longer have that illness.

More importantly, you've already said you think she's a liar. And now you expect her to prove the opposite. There's no way to do so. Since you distrust her, there is no relationship worth having.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Naked expectations - 6/8/2014 4:58:07 PM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

Two months and you're already total power exchange and living together? That's pretty fast moving, perhaps it's not surprising that you're finding your ideas about this aren't quite meshing up.

I know what you mean about the dom molding a sub into her best self but I'm not sure that comes from restricting who she communicates with. And there's a difference between polishing someone up and trying to change who they are. At this point I'd propose that you don't really know who she is because two months is very much a honeymoon period. And you're already talking broken trust and serious punishment.

I don't really know how I feel about the whole D/s concept of the dom making the sub the better person. I've always felt that a strong relationship with two reasonably sensible people will inevitably bring out the best in both of them, but the idea that the dom can train the sub to be a better person has always seemed a little naive and romanticised to me. It seems like there are very few people out there qualified to guide a person through those sort of changes, even though a lot of people set out to do just that.


This...you're old enough to know two months is not nearly enough time to have the level of control she has granted you already. I think both of you need to communicate as it seems like she's very willing to make this work. And you need to listen and be OK with letting her have her limits until she trusts you enough to push the envelope gently.
I know a D who I can't even have a single conversation with because his thoughts have evolved to where he has convinced himself he can top me no matter how many times I have stone walled him for attempting this very thing. Maybe he thinks his being 6'5 and thoroughly muscled will change things but that's the problem; as D's they need to listen, observe and UNDERSTAND. And everything will be peachy keen.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

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The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/8/2014 5:04:28 PM   
Ladytisha


Posts: 112
Joined: 6/3/2013
Status: offline 		Are you wanting a sub who has their own mind or someone to control? Right off the back your expecting her to get naked and you talk about building trust, how will her being naked build trust?

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/9/2014 10:46:04 AM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline 		Whether it is reasonable to expect that she has no right to privacy is, as others have said, dependent on what agreement exists between you.

That said... As a Dominant, I can imagine a situation where my sub is denied privacy as a method of establishing her submissive role, but I would be very uncomfortable in a situation where I felt compelled to monitor my sub's communication because I didn't trust her.

_____________________________

pronounced "VROOick"

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/9/2014 11:00:02 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ladytisha

Are you wanting a sub who has their own mind or someone to control? Right off the back your expecting her to get naked and you talk about building trust, how will her being naked build trust?


I could be wrong, but I read it as naked in the metaphorical sense and not literal.
Open and honest, with no secrets.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

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RE: Naked expectations - 6/9/2014 5:32:41 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm betting it's both.

Regardless, he hasn't earned the level of trust required for him to control her having friends and seeing them.
He hasn't earned the trust required to get passwords.

Moreover he doesn't appear to realize that he needs to earn trust.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 20
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