RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun

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BamaD -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 4:23:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Third when the cops show up your firearm should not be aimed at them, on the ground would be good. And that is where things get complicated. You assume that you will see the cops arrive and that the violence will be over. If that isn't the case... ...Better have that death insurance policy paid up and current. Those cops will see some guy waving a gun around, think, "That's the gunman" and drop him under a hail of gunfire. Or worst, some CCW holder does not observe the initial situation, rounds the corner, see's the first CCW holder firing on someone, and shots him/her in the back....then the cops....drop him. An who is to say a CCW holder is not part of the actual plan? Waiting to see if there are any 'heroes' that try to react to the original situation and eliminate them before joining their friends in the mayhem. . Joether, you know the cops don't do that with the actual shooters but you assume they will with the armed citizen, how obtuse. You also fall into the trap of assuming the ccw holder will shoot anyone but the bad guy. The third point is pure paranoia.

BamaD -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 4:29:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Searcher916 BamaD said "Second he is wrong, I have defused multiple situations with firearms." What exactly were the situations? Could you please describe in detail what happened? They were all pretty much the same. Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge. I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in.

BamaD -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 4:30:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Wilcox was armed—he saw Miller and believed he had the opportunity to intervene. But he didn't notice a smaller woman standing by, with a shopping cart and a handbag. That was Miller's wife Amanda, and she too was armed; in an instant, she shot and killed Wilcox. Wilcox was supposed to be one of the good guys, but owning a gun may have cost him his life." I am unsure what makes Wilcox a good guy. He went out in public armed. Certainly this is not illegal. Why was Wilcox armed in public? Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not? Wilcox chose to go armed in public so that he migh insert himself into any public strife where a gun would give him an advantage. How did he not suffer the consequences for which he set himself up? Either bad tactics or bad luck

igor2003 -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 4:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Wilcox was armed—he saw Miller and believed he had the opportunity to intervene. But he didn't notice a smaller woman standing by, with a shopping cart and a handbag. That was Miller's wife Amanda, and she too was armed; in an instant, she shot and killed Wilcox. Wilcox was supposed to be one of the good guys, but owning a gun may have cost him his life." I am unsure what makes Wilcox a good guy. Personally, I'd say he was a "good guy" if for no other reason than that he at least attempted to stop a bad situation from getting worse. Shooting timeline: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/09/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-_n_5475808.html He went out in public armed. Certainly this is not illegal. It seems he was within the bounds of the law. Why was Wilcox armed in public? Maybe because both the U.S. Constitution as well as local laws allowed him to be. Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not? Why shouldn't he if he was obeying all legal restrictions? It was his right. Wilcox chose to go armed in public so that he migh insert himself into any public strife where a gun would give him an advantage. How did he not suffer the consequences for which he set himself up? He did suffer the consequences. That, in and of itself, does not make him "not a good guy". All too often something bad starts to happen and no one does anything. Often that is because the people just don't have the means to make a difference. He HAD the means. And he tried to do something. Perhaps foolishly. But at least he tried. In reading the timeline...if it is accurate...it says that Miller fired only one shot. He apparently didn't shoot AT anyone. It seems that he did it only to get peoples attention, after which he told everyone to get out of the store. It was at this point that Wilcox made the decision to confront, or try to stop Miller. So, the question for me is, did he do it to try to stop innocent people from being hurt or killed even though Miller had told everyone to leave, or did he do it to be a hero? So for me he was a "good guy" for at least trying. I'm just not sure about his motives.

HunterS -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 4:49:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD They were all pretty much the same. Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge. I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in. Why would a drug dealer come to your property except to do business? Your stories seem more than a little self serving so maybe you will forgive us if we all shout "bullshit" in unison.

HunterS -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 4:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 He went out in public armed. Certainly this is not illegal. It seems he was within the bounds of the law. I stated that already why are you repeating me? quote: Why was Wilcox armed in public? Maybe because both the U.S. Constitution as well as local laws allowed him to be. That is not the question I asked. quote: Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not? Why shouldn't he if he was obeying all legal restrictions? It was his right. Once again for the reading challanged that is not the question I asked.

BamaD -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 5:11:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD They were all pretty much the same. Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge. I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in. Why would a drug dealer come to your property except to do business? Your stories seem more than a little self serving so maybe you will forgive us if we all shout "bullshit" in unison. My property was, for a couple of years the last bastion of civilization in my neighborhood. A couple of them started off trying to make a sale and got hostile when I told them to get lost. One claimed to be a dealer but his actions indicated his intent was burglary and assault. You can yell bullshit all you want but it doesn't make it so. Give me one example where the cops shot the ccw holder instead of the bad guy. Give me one example of the ccw holder in this situation shooting everyone but the bad guy. I call bullshit on both of those. Self serving == supports my position.

DomKen -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 5:34:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Third when the cops show up your firearm should not be aimed at them, on the ground would be good. And that is where things get complicated. You assume that you will see the cops arrive and that the violence will be over. If that isn't the case... If that isn't the case, although it will be 99.9% of the time, you drop your gun and lay on the ground. You're psychic?

BamaD -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 5:37:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Third when the cops show up your firearm should not be aimed at them, on the ground would be good. And that is where things get complicated. You assume that you will see the cops arrive and that the violence will be over. If that isn't the case... If that isn't the case, although it will be 99.9% of the time, you drop your gun and lay on the ground. You're psychic? Average response time 15 minutes, average gunfight under a minute, don't need to be a psychic

BamaD -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 5:39:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 He went out in public armed. Certainly this is not illegal. It seems he was within the bounds of the law. I stated that already why are you repeating me? quote: Why was Wilcox armed in public? Maybe because both the U.S. Constitution as well as local laws allowed him to be. That is not the question I asked. quote: Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not? Why shouldn't he if he was obeying all legal restrictions? It was his right. Once again for the reading challanged that is not the question I asked. Given these things it behooves you to prove why he shouldn't have had a gun, other than you don't want him to.

BamaD -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 6:16:20 PM)
FR From some of the comments on here you would think that Wilcox was the villain of the piece.

Musicmystery -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/19/2014 6:35:34 PM)
I noticed that too.

thishereboi -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 5:26:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HunterS quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD They were all pretty much the same. Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge. I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in. Why would a drug dealer come to your property except to do business? Your stories seem more than a little self serving so maybe you will forgive us if we all shout "bullshit" in unison. The ones who went up to my friends house claimed they were dong it to offer fantastic deals on electronic equipment. When they noticed her husband standing in the background with a gun they remembered another appointment they had to be at and left promising to come back the next day with better stuff. The cops who showed up after they left said they were doing it to case houses for future robberies and to get rid of stolen goods. Amazingly enough they never came back so we will never know for sure.

Tkman117 -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 5:30:58 AM)
Jesus, how shitty is your country that you have to worry about this stuff all the time? Goes to show what a corrupt government and a failing education system does to country, even to the "leaders of the free world" [8\|]

thishereboi -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 5:44:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Jesus, how shitty is your country that you have to worry about this stuff all the time? Goes to show what a corrupt government and a failing education system does to country, even to the "leaders of the free world" [8\|] I don't have to worry about this stuff all the time. My friend does because she lives in Detroit. But you are right about what a corrupt government and failing education can do to a city. Care to guess which side has been in control for the last 50 years. I also find it amusing that you think one story about one family can tell you how all americans live. It makes me wonder about your own education system and just what kind of bullshit they are feeding you up there.

Tkman117 -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 5:59:11 AM)
Well, considering all of the other crazy shit that we hear coming out of the US, coupled with the fact that the USA just ranked 101 on the list of most peaceful (And Canada at 7) where they took about 22 factors into consideration (education included), it makes me wonder why immigrants even want to go to the USA anymore. In short, your country sucks. The only thing you dont suck at is locking people up and having the biggest military in the world. Congrats [8\|] http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/2014%20Global%20Peace%20Index%20REPORT_0.pdf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zd1hZDvJ0Y

Musicmystery -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 6:02:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tkman117 Jesus, how shitty is your country that you have to worry about this stuff all the time? Goes to show what a corrupt government and a failing education system does to country, even to the "leaders of the free world" [8\|] Before you go too far down this road, Canada is hardly immune. There's plenty of crap here, yes. But the disparity is the economic development and sheer population size. Canada is the next largest county than . . . Iraq. And the US is your largest trading partner, by FAR.

Tkman117 -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 6:13:46 AM)
Oh we're hardly immune, I completely agree. But we're much better off in most realms, can't really disagree there. And ya, the US is our largest trading partner. I'm just grateful that only goods and currency have crossed the border, not insane ideologies. The way I see it is the US is gonna collapse in on itself in the next 20-30 years if nothing changes, and unfortunately it will drag us down too. Which absolutely sucks and I definitely dont look forward to it.

Musicmystery -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 6:15:00 AM)
You can fuck off now, O Vision of Utopia.

Tkman117 -> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun (6/20/2014 6:21:05 AM)
We're not a utopia, far from it. We got a crappy prime minister cutting environmental regulations to pass an unpopular oil pipeline from Alberta to BC and the Bloc Quebecois (a popular political party in Quebec) just appointed a hardcore separatists as their leader, yay us. The point I'm trying to make is that the rest of the 1st world are doing things a certain way, and the USA is doing the opposite and it's bringing you guys down. I like Americans and I won't lie, you're crucial to the world economy, proof being the 2008 crisis. If you fail, we all fail, but if you don't start changing things around and catch up to the rest of us, no one will be able to move forward and then we're all fucked.

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