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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 10:36:04 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


It's a strange hypothetical scenario to imagine. Pressure to accept a medical treatment, no tangible proof of its necessity, its only benefits conferred by the fact that everyone else already has it, and coming at a terrible expense to those 1 or 2 percent who have a bad reaction. It seems unlikely that doctors, hospitals, parents, or society in general would tolerate a standard practice like this.

Except they already do. The imaginary treatment I described above is real. Obstetricians, doctors, and midwives commit this procedure on infants every single day, in every single country. In reality, this treatment is performed almost universally without even asking for the parents' consent, making this practice all the more insidious. ~Slate

The outrageous treatment goes by two different names: "It's a boy!" and "It's a girl!"

Yeah, seriously.

Anybody else think maybe it's time to start putting Thorazine in the water?

K.


I just read that article and I gotta say, IMHO, this is the most idiotic thing I have ever seen on the internet. Do they honestly believe that fucking with 100% of the children born will be something that helps the small percentage of trans folks?

The world has fucking gone insane.

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 10:55:43 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Strangely not a single one has tried this so far. Despite all the fear mongering. It has been in effect since Jan. 1. As a matter of fact LA county had implemented the same program 9 years earlier and had no problems at all.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/01/31/one-month-later-how-californias-transgender-stu/197864


How many people are in California? How many schools? How many students?

And you can state with absolute authority that there has never been one problem.

It is my opinion that you are just DK being DK because I know for a fact that I would have tried to shower with the cheerleaders if there was even a small chance. We spied on them as it was, there was a convenient viewing area... And I joined home ec rather than wood shop because there were ladies in there... Who cared what anyone else thought, you know?



Because the right wing noise machine would have jumped all over anyone doing so. Since it hasn't...

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 10:58:50 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Are you too stupid too understand that we have moved beyond relying upon a glance at the plumbing, which we can change with surgery anyway, to determine that? It's how the person feels that is important not which bits the baby developed.

The subject is the sex of the child, Ken. Try to get that through your head. Third time's a charm. If the sex of a newborn was determined by how it "feels," there would never be any need to change the plumbing.

No, actually if you'd learn to read, the article is talking about assigning gender which is distinct from the plumbing you are born with as I've tried to explain to you.

For someone so obsessed with his alleged high intelligence, it would be helpful if you could manage to demonstrate some on occasion. You know, just now and then, to surprise us.

It's called infant gender assignment: When the doctor holds your child up to the harsh light of the delivery room, looks between its legs, and declares his opinion: It's a boy or a girl, based on nothing more than a cursory assessment of your offspring's genitals.

The doctor is reporting the newborn's sex. What it may "feel" like is indeterminable, and no claim about that is being made.

K.


Do people often feel the need to use a 2x4 to get a concept through to you? The child's sex or gender is not determined by its genitals. That is outmoded thinking. What matters is the brain and until the child can communicate we won't know for sure if the brain matches the genitals so why assign gender based on those genitals?

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 10:59:02 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because the right wing noise machine would have jumped all over anyone doing so. Since it hasn't...


You know everything that happens in every shower and every restroom in every school in California...

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 11:00:04 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

how about boi and gurl?

Or baby?

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 11:02:33 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Because the right wing noise machine would have jumped all over anyone doing so. Since it hasn't...


You know everything that happens in every shower and every restroom in every school in California...

Is this about sports or is this about kids peeking under bathrooms stalls? You seem to have changed subjects.

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 11:47:59 AM   
Sanity


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Right now this is about how you know everything that has ever happened

God himself must be jealous...

We had a TG fellow in an upscale office building I help manage who came out of the closet, which was cool. A large hairy fellow though, unattractive as a guy. Get the picture?

Anyway, he began using the common womens room on his floor, which that womens room was shared by several different offices... It only took one encounter with one of the more well-to-do ladies on the floor in that restroom for it to be decided at higher levels that this particular womens room would now be exclusively that particular TG's restroom, and all the ladies on the floor received electronic key cards to access a secure but vacant floor where they could use the restroom without having to share it with someone who was physically very male

Guess what - that never made the news, national or local

Long story short, don't tell me there has never been a single issue in California ken, because you are so full of shit that your eyes must be turning brown

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 1:32:16 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Yes I read the essay. How else would I have been able to determine the author still had some unresolved issues?

At what age should a child be able to make such a proclamation in your and the article author's messed up minds? Whenever they get the concept? Are you even aware of brain development, cognizant ability and comprehension in a child? It certainly seems you aren't.

In the US, less than one percent of the population is transgendered, yet because some pissed off transexual can't accept that they spent time as a gender that was wrong for them, the whole world must change.

I realize it must have been difficult for you to understand what I said, but take some ginseng and see if the fog in your head clears.

Throughout a child's young life, they do often question not simply their own gender but the worlds. Some boys may play with girl's toys oor get into mommy's makeup. Likewise girl's want to be like daddy. It doesn't mean they are confused about their gender identity. As a small child, my son enjoyed princess movies, played with mymakeup, heels and lingerie. I didn't "guide" him away from anything but my makeup, because he could ruin what was not his to play with. If he wanted to put on my heels or bras, I didn't care. He is now a 21 year old heterosexual male with a child.

Homosexual men are still men, lesbians women. They aren't questioning their gender, but their sexual attraction.

Have you considered the ramifications of this alternate world you promote? We are very clear that "children" can't vote until 18, can't drink until 21. Why? Because we have determined they lack the maturity and. Cognizant ability to make reasonable decisions before that age. Are their currently children who very clearly suffer from GID younger than 18? Yes. But that number is even less than the one percent of transexual adults, so these situations are determined on a case by case basis as they should be.

The reality is the author of the article has psychological issues that she needs to deal with. None of which means the world should change to fit her issues.

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 2:10:39 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


It's a strange hypothetical scenario to imagine. Pressure to accept a medical treatment, no tangible proof of its necessity, its only benefits conferred by the fact that everyone else already has it, and coming at a terrible expense to those 1 or 2 percent who have a bad reaction. It seems unlikely that doctors, hospitals, parents, or society in general would tolerate a standard practice like this.

Except they already do. The imaginary treatment I described above is real. Obstetricians, doctors, and midwives commit this procedure on infants every single day, in every single country. In reality, this treatment is performed almost universally without even asking for the parents' consent, making this practice all the more insidious. ~Slate

The outrageous treatment goes by two different names: "It's a boy!" and "It's a girl!"

Yeah, seriously.

Anybody else think maybe it's time to start putting Thorazine in the water?

K.




Kirata, what's your opinion on all this? You're the thread-starter, but your OP gives no hint of your own beliefs on the matter.

Was this thread just a way of providing a lot of righties - including even the most stupid of them - a fun chance to snort at lefties and their 'political correctness gone mad', or did you find the article thought-provoking and make you wonder what others felt about it?

Do you feel able to share your own beliefs about a given issue on this occasion?

ETA: And yes, I know I'm the only one to have used the phrase 'political correctness gone mad'.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 6/28/2014 2:13:30 PM >

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 2:19:39 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Twelve posts in and not one person has squawked the good old line 'Political Correctness Gone Mad!' What *is* this forum coming to?


Because this isn't about political correctness. This is a part of the overall effort to destroy American / traditional culture.
Political correctness is more, looking the other way while it happens.




Sanity, I've not seen an answer to that question, so far. Perhaps I've missed it - if so, could you point me to the post in which you've answered it? If not, can you explain how you think this will destroy American/tradtional culture? What are the mechanisms by which this will happen? Could you illustrate?

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 4:20:20 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Yes I read the essay. How else would I have been able to determine the author still had some unresolved issues?

At what age should a child be able to make such a proclamation in your and the article author's messed up minds? Whenever they get the concept? Are you even aware of brain development, cognizant ability and comprehension in a child? It certainly seems you aren't.

I'm more aware of it than you are apparently. In the latest research on children with gender dysphoria the condition is present from their earliest ability to express themselves. and it is also clear that children who are not gender dysphoric, even if they cross dress or otherwise violate gender norms, do not have any issues with their gender identities. So it seems reasonable to save those children with GD a great deal of damage that we should hold off assigning children gender until they can express it themselves. This could save lives and shouldn't that always be the goal of all decisions like this?

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 4:24:10 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Right now this is about how you know everything that has ever happened

God himself must be jealous...

We had a TG fellow in an upscale office building I help manage who came out of the closet, which was cool. A large hairy fellow though, unattractive as a guy. Get the picture?

Anyway, he began using the common womens room on his floor, which that womens room was shared by several different offices... It only took one encounter with one of the more well-to-do ladies on the floor in that restroom for it to be decided at higher levels that this particular womens room would now be exclusively that particular TG's restroom, and all the ladies on the floor received electronic key cards to access a secure but vacant floor where they could use the restroom without having to share it with someone who was physically very male

Guess what - that never made the news, national or local

Long story short, don't tell me there has never been a single issue in California ken, because you are so full of shit that your eyes must be turning brown

We're not talking about a bunch of idiots in Idaho, we're talking about public school sports teams in California. The first transgirl to play on one will make the right wing sites because you bigots are waiting to insist she is doing it to win not because she was born in the wrong body.

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:04:20 PM   
Sanity


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Thats a thread all its own, and a very complex subject that would be time intensive for me to lay out here in one post, and with the low brows on the left such as thompson, DK, MM etc who seem to dominate here (using the term loosely now), I am not feeling that working hard to construct a post is worth much effort here.

But I will throw you a bone, since you have been so persistent

On the one hand, a very high profile tactic toward that end happening right now involves applying Cloward-Piven through various means including the left's wide-open border / rolling amnesty demands and their ACORN-like activities, as well as their new Obamacare entitlement scheme

We are already trillions and trillions in debt and cannot take on much more, most people will admit that, unless they are wearing the far lefts blinders

So a new entitlement such as Obamacare and more dependents on our welfare rolls appears to be totally insane unless viewed through the lens of Cloward-Piven and with the express intent of destroying traditional (hated) America in mind

Meanwhile racial, gender, political and religious strife etc will help keep everyones eyes on the other hand

There is far more to it, and again perhaps at some point it deserves a thread of its own

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:06:49 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We're not talking about a bunch of idiots in Idaho, we're talking about public school sports teams in California. The first transgirl to play on one will make the right wing sites because you bigots are waiting to insist she is doing it to win not because she was born in the wrong body.


You're lost, dk, and not worth my time.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:11:00 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

It's a strange hypothetical scenario to imagine. Pressure to accept a medical treatment, no tangible proof of its necessity, its only benefits conferred by the fact that everyone else already has it, and coming at a terrible expense to those 1 or 2 percent who have a bad reaction. It seems unlikely that doctors, hospitals, parents, or society in general would tolerate a standard practice like this.

Except they already do. The imaginary treatment I described above is real. Obstetricians, doctors, and midwives commit this procedure on infants every single day, in every single country. In reality, this treatment is performed almost universally without even asking for the parents' consent, making this practice all the more insidious. ~Slate

The outrageous treatment goes by two different names: "It's a boy!" and "It's a girl!"

Yeah, seriously.

Anybody else think maybe it's time to start putting Thorazine in the water?

Kirata, what's your opinion on all this? You're the thread-starter, but your OP gives no hint of your own beliefs on the matter.

The subject of my post was quote I cited, and I would have thought that my opinion of it was somewhat less than obscure.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/28/2014 5:23:29 PM >

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:22:07 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

We are already trillions and trillions in debt and cannot take on much more, most people will admit that, unless they are wearing the far lefts blinders

So a new entitlement such as Obamacare and more dependents on our welfare rolls appears to be totally insane unless viewed through the lens of Cloward-Piven and with the express intent of destroying traditional (hated) America in mind

Meanwhile racial, gender, political and religious strife etc will help keep everyones eyes on the other hand

There is far more to it, and again perhaps at some point it deserves a thread of its own


And this will all be affected by ... whether or not a child is called 'girl' or 'boy' at the moment of birth, or whether trans people can play this or that sport or use the gents' as opposed to the ladies' toilet in college?

Sanity, seriously, this is not sanity.

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:37:21 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:


Do you feel able to share your own beliefs about a given issue on this occasion?


quote:

The subject of my post was the paragraphs cited from the Slate article, and I would have thought my opinion was somewhat less than obscure.

K.


I'm afraid your opinion *is* still somewhat obscure to me, K. Perhaps I'm being slow tonight. Would you mind stating it?

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:39:26 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Status: offline 		Actually you're not. You would like to change something to make less than .5% of the populaion feel better

At no point have I said any child should be guided in one direction or the other. We are, like it or not born of a cerain gender. Now, certainly for some, the way they are born conflicts with how they identify. But it doesn't mean they are not still born and existing as that gender at that moment.

What this is really about is trying to prevent parents from having feelings regarding GID children which simply won't happen.

To think the issues that the GID population suffer can be resolved by not "assigning" a gender at birth is idiocy.

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:52:10 PM   
Sanity


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Which, the fact that you were only trolling is why you deserved to be ignored

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RE: Another Outrage - 6/28/2014 5:53:59 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Actually you're not. You would like to change something to make less than .5% of the populaion feel better


I've got to say, my abiding feeling is that it wouldn't make much difference to anybody - transgendered or otherwise, even if it were to be made national policy (which it won't be, of course). It's not going to make transgendered people's lives markedly better; neither is it a clear sign of traditional American society's impending doom.

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