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RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/13/2014 8:14:17 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: LadyMariaP

, it must exist for me, and it must feel like its not just someone "earning" play, but rather a genuine desire to serve and please on its own right.

So yes, its not "just" service, but unless it can be seen as a valuable and fulfilling part of submission on its own i find it hard to proceed further.


It might also be hard to proceed further for him since you bring nothing to the table except your dirty dishes and sore feet.
Unless one gets more out of a relationship than they put in they will cease that relationship. What each puts in will always differ. What each gets out will always differ. The fact remains...when in your life did you continue in a relationship of any sort that you got less out of than you put in?


< Message edited by thompsonx -- 7/13/2014 8:19:52 AM >

(in reply to LadyMariaP)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/14/2014 4:58:57 AM   
LadyMariaP


Posts: 7
Joined: 4/3/2013
Status: offline 		I think cynicism and sarcasm can be taken a tad far. I have had the privilege of being served by wonderful submissives who enjoy pleasing in contexts that aren't overtly sexual, and I think it's quite insulting for you to assume they dont exist.

And what I "bring to the table", reductio ad absurdum aside, is for that submissive to assess and make his or her own decisions about. Again, I won't generalise, but in my experience finding happiness and fulfilment in your loved one's pleasure and satisfaction is rather the take - home message of a lot of submissives.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/15/2014 1:27:05 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: LadyMariaP

I think cynicism and sarcasm can be taken a tad far. I have had the privilege of being served by wonderful submissives who enjoy pleasing in contexts that aren't overtly sexual, and I think it's quite insulting for you to assume they dont exist.

I am sorry that that is what you took away from my post because I did not put that in it.

And what I "bring to the table", reductio ad absurdum aside, is for that submissive to assess and make his or her own decisions about.

If that decission leaves you sleeping single instead of double what would that tell you?


Again, I won't generalise, but in my experience finding happiness and fulfilment in your loved one's pleasure and satisfaction is rather the take - home message of a lot of submissives.

Is it one of the "take home messages" for you as a domme?


(in reply to LadyMariaP)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/15/2014 8:51:27 PM   
crwlon4


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		I feel like the level of cynicism is high here as well, and the assumptions you appear to be making about LadyMarieP's relationships are a reach. I have never entered a D/s relationship "looking" for sex. So there is at least one.
I do not disagree with your premise that it is a give and take, and any one sided relationship is doomed to fail.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/16/2014 1:14:01 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crwlon4
<snip>
I have never entered a D/s relationship "looking" for sex. So there is at least one.
I do not disagree with your premise that it is a give and take, and any one sided relationship is doomed to fail.

Not meaning any disrespect, and I used to always give people the benefit of the doubt before I grew older and became more discerning, I would take issue with both of these statements.
Christian charity and/or altruism aside, which is better directed toward uplifting the poor, infirm, those who are homeless or without much-needed resources, I hardly think that there is a Domme among us who is in such dire straits that she needs a handout in terms of NSA housework from a willing sub.
This would set off a red-flag with me if a service sub claimed that serving a Dominant woman would be his only reward. A single male - particularly one who has never been married - not wanting intimacy, not needing friendship, having access to someone else's domicile without seeking meaningful interaction, not even being honest about perhaps hoping for the reward of some play. IMO, this would not be within the realm of *normalcy* and would make me question what underlying motives this person actually has.
(Besides, lack of healthy libido is a deal breaker in itself, as far as I'm concerned. )

Every single one-sided relationship by virtue of the definition of "relationship" IS in fact doomed to fail...miserably.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to crwlon4)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/17/2014 9:54:07 AM   
Subano


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/15/2013
Status: offline 		If, in reality, it's *just* cleaning, and there is no sexual tension, then why bother in the first place?

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/17/2014 10:30:33 AM   
Oneechan


Posts: 50
Joined: 8/31/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Well, damnit, are no femdoms going to answer my question? I have asked what *you* might want from a service sub. What is it that *you* fantasise about? How would you picture it, ideally for you (yes, yes, we all know that it rarely matches the ideal).

I read all the time of femdoms who complain that malesubs don't care about what they, the femdoms, want. So, here we are - here is me caring. So do you care to answer? Surely it cannot be that you're all a bunch of wimpy-girls-blouse shrinking violets, hmmm? The sorts of petticoat milksops who compress their lips in silence for years on end about how awful men are because men can't 'intuit' by ESP what you want, then let it all out here on CM in continuous streams of vinegary invective?

Frigging hell. I can do anything about a house. Electrics, plumbing, building, decorating. I would *love* to be a 'house-servant'. It is a deeply horny idea for me. Jesus. Tell me how it could work *for you*. No jokes: just the horny and fun stuff. If you find the idea horny and fun, there's a very strong chance that *I* will find it horny and fun, too.

Get on with it and stop being a bunch of weedy girly pansies. Thank you.


Doesn't this seem obvious? we'd get a clean house out of it, and presumably more time to relax or do other things.
aside from that... hmm

there's a certain sense of security that comes from knowing stuff is being handled. just having someone take care of that would help me feel more relaxed regardless of what i was up to.

there's also the natural sense of superiority (that sounds arrogant) that comes from people doing things for you (or giving you stuff) for nothing. it's gain with no cost or downside. Someone has spent their time and energy in order to save mine. Sacrificing their own person in order to elevate me. I like that idea

is there a sexual element to it? maybe. i like the idea of rewarding a slave for a job well done. petting them, leting them worship my feet, telling them they're a good boy/girl. I would enjoy that, and i think many subs would too.

But i don't know if i could enjoy the experience with a needy sub. If there's an expectation of a reward or something in return, then i'm not really dominating the situation at all. we're just two people trading services. That's not something i mind, and have done it before, but in that case i'd want it to be formalised with some sort of agreement. At which point it becomes business, not play. i don't like business masquerading as pleasure, and try to keep a distinction between the two.

I'm seeing quite a few negative responses towards dommes in this thread. that it's somehow odd or wrong to expect NSA housework from a sub. And yet, that is exactly what many of us are offered, unsolicited, quite frequently.

Perhaps these NSA subs do exist, but they're simply hard to find because such people are quickly taken by dominants.



anyways, on the flipside, there is something to consider. Many subs (myself included, during my subby phases. As well as some that i've dommed) derive enjoyment merely from seeing the dominant happy. Cleaning up my house for me would do wonders for my mood, and perhaps there are people willing to do it just to see a smile. Is that a string? maybe, but it's a very small one. A sub could derive fulfilment from knowing that the chores they're doing are needed and that they've served a practical purpose in someone's life, rather than just doing busywork.

Charities and volunteering do exist, after all. If someone is willing to give up their weekends in order to help an anonymous african child, then why not for an actual flesh and blood dominant they can see.

Whether that enjoyment can work without a personal connection is another matter. Does a sub care about a dominant's life when they're mostly strangers to each other? that i'm not sure about.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/17/2014 12:57:57 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

Every single one-sided relationship by virtue of the definition of "relationship" IS in fact doomed to fail...miserably.


Isn't it in the nature of D/s that, in some fundamental way, relationships are 'one sided'? That's what both parties get off on, isn't it?

_____________________________

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(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/17/2014 1:52:43 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Every single one-sided relationship by virtue of the definition of "relationship" IS in fact doomed to fail...miserably.

Isn't it in the nature of D/s that, in some fundamental way, relationships are 'one sided'? That's what both parties get off on, isn't it?

Would you not agree that D/s is a power exchange dynamic? Whether it's a total (mutual) transfer or not, an exchange is an exchange.
Your submission for Her Dominance.
Her Dominance for your submission.
She has the need to dominate, to take control, and to be in charge.
You have the need to submit, to be controlled, to defer to her authority.

But there is another component which goes hand in hand with a D/s dynamic ... which is O/ownership.
Without the commitment and responsibility which goes with O/ownership, the power exchange is but a temporal wisp of smoke. It will lack substance, dimensionality, and will not be set on a solid foundation.
If two parties want to play-act and roleplay their Dominance and submission, which in terms of service does not involve consensual bedroom Dominance & bedroom submission, they can have at it.
But don't for one moment believe that you are your Dominant's submissive, or that she is your Mistress, without the obligations of O/ownership that you both have in belonging to one another.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/17/2014 2:13:15 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Doesn't this seem obvious? we'd get a clean house out of it, and presumably more time to relax or do other things.
aside from that... hmm

there's a certain sense of security that comes from knowing stuff is being handled. just having someone take care of that would help me feel more relaxed regardless of what i was up to.

there's also the natural sense of superiority (that sounds arrogant) that comes from people doing things for you (or giving you stuff) for nothing. it's gain with no cost or downside. Someone has spent their time and energy in order to save mine. Sacrificing their own person in order to elevate me. I like that idea



You'd think it would be obvious, wouldn't you? Yet, time and time again I look at the arguments on these boards between subs and doms and suspect that the root problem is the one side taking something for granted about the other side that it really, really shouldn't be taking for granted. I get a strong sense with this subject of 'service', for instance, that the one side thinks, 'How could she not want that?' while the other side thinks, 'Pfft. I don't believe it and he just must be bullshitting. How could he possibly get a buzz out of that and only that?'

On this subject, of 'service subs', I think the communication between doms and subs is probably at its poorest. Which is quite a statement, considering how poor it is generally.

I'll give you an example. I've announced here ( a few times, I think) that I have this fantasy about a woman on a train, who tells me to carry her suitcase, just as the train we're on pulls in to the Paddington terminus in London. Now, say all my friends know how I'm wired (they don't) and arrange for a good actress to be on that train, to play that part with me, without my knowledge, as a trick on my stag night (we do that sort of thing in the UK - usually it's strippers, though).

So, said actress, who is kind of glamorous but still looks ordinary and is dressed ordinarily, tells me to pick up her suitcase. I'm surprised, shocked, all sorts of things - but, yes, I do it. Then I carry it for her to the tube station (some one hundred yards and down some steps from where the overground train has pulled in). Then she smiles and says, 'Thanks. You can go now' ... and leaves, without a glance back. And I know I'd stand there, with my mouth open, thinking, 'What? Bloody outrageous! How dare she?', while shoving my hands in my pockets and desperately trying to manoeuvre my iron-hard dick into a position where it wasn't too obvious.

But it would be a dream come true. She would in effect have reached into me, grabbed the sub in me and cheerfully pulled the whole lot of it out of me. The memory would make me horny, literally, for decades to come. Seriously.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Oneechan)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/17/2014 7:22:51 PM   
crwlon4


Posts: 47
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline 		I think people tend to over complicate things. Any BDSM relationship is similar to a vanilla relationship in that it is exactly that, a relationship. It's as real as it is to the two people involved. The BDSM side of things tend to be more non-traditional in that it can cover a wide variety of circumstances. If one person is "Taking" and not giving, it is just a bad relationship. And that goes for vanilla or whatever flavor is your preference.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/17/2014 8:49:02 PM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		~ FR ~
quote:

ORIGINAL: crwlon4

I think people tend to over complicate things. Any BDSM relationship is similar to a vanilla relationship in that it is exactly that, a relationship. It's as real as it is to the two people involved. The BDSM side of things tend to be more non-traditional in that it can cover a wide variety of circumstances. If one person is "Taking" and not giving, it is just a bad relationship. And that goes for vanilla or whatever flavor is your preference.


Simple truths are often the most profound. Whether BDSM or vanilla, there are givers and there are takers. In an *ideal* relationship, there is equanimity in the give-and-take.
And by this I don't mean that all submissives are givers and all Dominants are takers or receivers. There are giving Dominants and receiving submissives who are out for their own self-gratification.

Btw, being a rude, pushy, selfish bitch or prick does not a Dominant make.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to crwlon4)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 1:45:15 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Without the commitment and responsibility which goes with O/ownership, the power exchange is but a temporal wisp of smoke.


Yes, but as temporal wisps of smoke go, they can be pretty good ones, no?

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 6:38:45 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crwlon4

I feel like the level of cynicism is high here as well,

You say that like it was a bad thing. Perhaps you are not aware of the meaning of cynicism.


and the assumptions you appear to be making about LadyMarieP's relationships are a reach.

Her post are pretty clear that it is "her way or the highway" That she expects service yet brings nothing to the table except her dirty dishes and her sore feet. What did I miss?
I have never entered a D/s relationship "looking" for sex. So there is at least one.
I believe we are both on a sexually explicit website. That is prima-facia evidence that you are looking for sexunless you are some sort of vice cop looking to get lucky when someone sticks their foot in their mouth.


(in reply to crwlon4)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 6:47:56 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

There are giving Dominants and receiving submissives who are out for their own self-gratification.

Would this be a,necessarily,bad thing if what each was giving and recieving were to be mutually satisfying?

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 7:00:08 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So, said actress, who is kind of glamorous but still looks ordinary and is dressed ordinarily, tells me to pick up her suitcase. I'm surprised, shocked, all sorts of things - but, yes, I do it. Then I carry it for her to the tube station (some one hundred yards and down some steps from where the overground train has pulled in). Then she smiles and says, 'Thanks. You can go now' ... and leaves, without a glance back. And I know I'd stand there, with my mouth open, thinking, 'What? Bloody outrageous! How dare she?', while shoving my hands in my pockets and desperately trying to manoeuvre my iron-hard dick into a position where it wasn't too obvious.

But it would be a dream come true. She would in effect have reached into me, grabbed the sub in me and cheerfully pulled the whole lot of it out of me. The memory would make me horny, literally, for decades to come. Seriously.

It is just my nature to be anal I guess but I would like to ask you a few questions about this fantasy...of course "bugger off" is always an appropriate answer when dealing with nosey people like me.
Would it have been better or not so if she had tipped you?
If so would the size of the tip be a factor?
Her bag, is it wheeled so all you have to do is pull it or do you have to shoulder it?
I recognize that you are not frail but does the mass of the bag have an effect? Humping 12 stone for a hundred yards would be somewhat of a chore even for you(needless to say I would need a wagon).

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 8:06:11 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

It is just my nature to be anal I guess but I would like to ask you a few questions about this fantasy...of course "bugger off" is always an appropriate answer when dealing with nosey people like me.
Would it have been better or not so if she had tipped you?
If so would the size of the tip be a factor?
Her bag, is it wheeled so all you have to do is pull it or do you have to shoulder it?
I recognize that you are not frail but does the mass of the bag have an effect? Humping 12 stone for a hundred yards would be somewhat of a chore even for you(needless to say I would need a wagon).


Far out. Somebody has asked me for more details for the very first time!

Tipping: no. That's never figured. In other fantasies, being paid for working as a 'servant for a day' - sort of. Some below-the-minimum wage. That could be kind of fun. Or 'pocket money'.

Her bag - no, it doesn't matter much. I could imagine a big bag that'll cause me to break into a sweat, or a small one that she could easily carry herself. Either has its merits, fantasy-wise.

Some of the buzz is about my being so surprised by it that it's over with before I've processed it. And other people noticing - even the odd laugh from other women, would add a bit of spice.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes - it's a fantasy. It's not reality. I doubt that any woman on the planet would have the balls to do that. Not even a femdom who was so certifiably mad that she actually bought into some new agey version of 'feminine magical powers', or some such.

On the other hand, she and I could have met, talked, made friends, and done some D/s type flirting on the train journey. Now that would make it more realistic. Wow - there's a fun little short story in there, maybe.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 9:42:11 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		[Brackets mine]
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

[FieryOpal:] Without the commitment and responsibility which goes with O/ownership, the power exchange is but a temporal wisp of smoke.

Yes, but as temporal wisps of smoke go, they can be pretty good ones, no?

Could be--isn't that kinda what fantasy is like? A daydream, a wet dream...

Your fantasy is quite sweet, if you don't mind my saying. Somewhat silly, but sweet.

Like thompson inquired on the matter of tipping, I was also thinking, "Bitch didn't even offer you a tip?"
Seriously, no-tipping bitches give all of us women a bad name. That's why we often don't get as good a service in restaurants with an all-female group.

Have you thought about getting yourself hired at one of these railway stations? One step closer to reality. Just sayin'.
A train journey fantasy sounds cool. The lady could take you aside, or grab you by the scruff of the neck, whichever.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 9:51:57 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

There are giving Dominants and receiving submissives who are out for their own self-gratification.

Would this be a,necessarily,bad thing if what each was giving and recieving were to be mutually satisfying?


I was speaking of one-way relationships, which preclude mutual satisfaction, mutual meaning "joint."
1 a : directed by each toward the other or the others <mutual affection> b : having the same feelings one for the other
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mutual

But things aren't as black and white as they would appear. People don't stay in lop-sided relationships unless they're getting some form of pay-off or need filled.
Then, of course, what floats other people's boats doesn't take the wind out of my sail.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: To sub men: please explain "service" hous... - 7/18/2014 1:45:52 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Then, of course, what floats other people's boats doesn't take the wind out of my sail.


I am pretty sure that if you floated someones boat your sails would have favorable winds.

(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 40
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